RugbyRebels

Big D wrote:

Chunks Baws wrote:

septic 9 wrote:
can't happen soon enough.

You not a fan of Watson?

For me it is that I rate Ritchie very highly and I have hopes Crosbie can grow into the 6 we have been missing for a long time.

There are questions over Watson that I can see preventing him being close to a Lion (other than he is Scottish before the Lions haters arrive). He carries to upright relying on strength and his attacking play really is only his carrying. I do like him as a player, he just wont be a shoe in should others develop as hoped.

There's a lot of hope placed on Crosbie. For me his potential is sky high with the physicality that he can bring but I can sort of understand why he's not an automatic starter even for Edinburgh yet. He's not yet as disruptive as Ritchie and Watson when we're defending. At 23 should really be nailing down his starting slot now.

switchskier wrote:
There's a lot of hope placed on Crosbie. For me his potential is sky high with the physicality that he can bring but I can sort of understand why he's not an automatic starter even for Edinburgh yet. He's not yet as disruptive as Ritchie and Watson when we're defending. At 23 should really be nailing down his starting slot now.

there is a guy who posts on both the Edinburgh and Glasgow boards with a family contact to the players. The word is at Edinburgh there is one player all the rest want to avoid when pairing up for tackle practice, whether attacker or defender. That'll be disruptive enough for me

Crosbie has been stuck behind Cockerill favourites, not least Mata, and had a bad injury outage, but has been playing more. Edinburgh is a tough team to break into, not always for the right reasons. Leicester were the same under Cockerill

I don't really get the criticism that Watson carries too upright. It's not how I would tell a kid to carry but it works very well for him. He breaks more tackles and makes more metres after contact than anyone else and I don't remember seeing him being held up.

Cameo wrote:I don't really get the criticism that Watson carries too upright. It's not how I would tell a kid to carry but it works very well for him. He breaks more tackles and makes more metres after contact than anyone else and I don't remember seeing him being held up.

How often has he carried consistently really well v England, Ireland or France?

I am a fan of his, I'm just not expecting him to tour with the Lions because others have a better all round game and I rate Ritchie as being better and I think Crosbie may be the 6 we need over the next 12-18 months with a fair injury free run.

Big D wrote:

Cameo wrote:I don't really get the criticism that Watson carries too upright. It's not how I would tell a kid to carry but it works very well for him. He breaks more tackles and makes more metres after contact than anyone else and I don't remember seeing him being held up.

How often has he carried consistently really well v England, Ireland or France?

Can't remember specific games but quite a lot I think. He obviously has to work harder for his metres in games we are struggling in but I don't think he goes missing. He had the amazing 20 mins against Wales coming back from injury and they were hardly a weak defensive team at the time.

Might not make the Lions but I am a long way from seeing replacing him as any kind of priority. I think the Ritchie Watson combo works for us. Arguably even on the weekend it helped us stay in a game we weren't playing particularly well in.

Cameo wrote:

Big D wrote:

Cameo wrote:I don't really get the criticism that Watson carries too upright. It's not how I would tell a kid to carry but it works very well for him. He breaks more tackles and makes more metres after contact than anyone else and I don't remember seeing him being held up.

How often has he carried consistently really well v England, Ireland or France?

Can't remember specific games but quite a lot I think. He obviously has to work harder for his metres in games we are struggling in but I don't think he goes missing. He had the amazing 20 mins against Wales coming back from injury and they were hardly a weak defensive team at the time.

Might not make the Lions but I am a long way from seeing replacing him as any kind of priority. I think the Ritchie Watson combo works for us. Arguably even on the weekend it helped us stay in a game we weren't playing particularly well in.

I am not saying it is a priority to replace him, but like every other player if an alternative is playing better for a consistent period of time then nobody should be safe from the drop (except maybe Hogg if we are being honest as he wont be dropped).

On another board someone is talking about moving Crosbie to 8 to accommodate the Ritchie/Watson combo. If (and it is projecting forward a lot), Crosbie is playing better then he should be in at flanker.

Watson wants to use his leg drive to bounce off guys hence the high carry, works well 1 on 1 but against better defences who can double up it doesn't

Hes not looking to drop a shoulder make 2 yards and fall to the earth

Watson is one of only about 5 or 6 players who shows any aggression in the contact area or takes the ball moving when they carry it. I’d love Crosbie to challenge for a spot but it seems like he’s a little way off actually putting in the performances, no?

Big D wrote:

Cameo wrote:

Big D wrote:
How often has he carried consistently really well v England, Ireland or France?

Can't remember specific games but quite a lot I think. He obviously has to work harder for his metres in games we are struggling in but I don't think he goes missing. He had the amazing 20 mins against Wales coming back from injury and they were hardly a weak defensive team at the time.

Might not make the Lions but I am a long way from seeing replacing him as any kind of priority. I think the Ritchie Watson combo works for us. Arguably even on the weekend it helped us stay in a game we weren't playing particularly well in.

I am not saying it is a priority to replace him, but like every other player if an alternative is playing better for a consistent period of time then nobody should be safe from the drop (except maybe Hogg if we are being honest as he wont be dropped).

On another board someone is talking about moving Crosbie to 8 to accommodate the Ritchie/Watson combo. If (and it is projecting forward a lot), Crosbie is playing better then he should be in at flanker.

Crosbie at 8 makes some sense from an Edinburgh perspective too. With Boyle, Darge and Muncaster in the pipeline there's potentially quite a lot of depth, even beyond Ritchie and Watson. I know Darge played 8 for the U20s but I'm not sure that any of them will have the size in the full game for 8. Crosbies best attributes are his power and aggression - it could work and I can see him surpassing Haining and Bradbury once Mata leaves.

switchskier wrote:

Big D wrote:

Cameo wrote:
Can't remember specific games but quite a lot I think. He obviously has to work harder for his metres in games we are struggling in but I don't think he goes missing. He had the amazing 20 mins against Wales coming back from injury and they were hardly a weak defensive team at the time.

Might not make the Lions but I am a long way from seeing replacing him as any kind of priority. I think the Ritchie Watson combo works for us. Arguably even on the weekend it helped us stay in a game we weren't playing particularly well in.

I am not saying it is a priority to replace him, but like every other player if an alternative is playing better for a consistent period of time then nobody should be safe from the drop (except maybe Hogg if we are being honest as he wont be dropped).

On another board someone is talking about moving Crosbie to 8 to accommodate the Ritchie/Watson combo. If (and it is projecting forward a lot), Crosbie is playing better then he should be in at flanker.

Crosbie at 8 makes some sense from an Edinburgh perspective too. With Boyle, Darge and Muncaster in the pipeline there's potentially quite a lot of depth, even beyond Ritchie and Watson. I know Darge played 8 for the U20s but I'm not sure that any of them will have the size in the full game for 8. Crosbies best attributes are his power and aggression - it could work and I can see him surpassing Haining and Bradbury once Mata leaves.

Also, you participate in another board? I feel cheated on.

Mikey Brown wrote:Watson is one of only about 5 or 6 players who shows any aggression in the contact area or takes the ball moving when they carry it. I’d love Crosbie to challenge for a spot but it seems like he’s a little way off actually putting in the performances, no?

I don't think so. I feel like it is his injuries that have prevented him being in and about the 23 now.

switchskier wrote:

Big D wrote:

Cameo wrote:
Can't remember specific games but quite a lot I think. He obviously has to work harder for his metres in games we are struggling in but I don't think he goes missing. He had the amazing 20 mins against Wales coming back from injury and they were hardly a weak defensive team at the time.

Might not make the Lions but I am a long way from seeing replacing him as any kind of priority. I think the Ritchie Watson combo works for us. Arguably even on the weekend it helped us stay in a game we weren't playing particularly well in.

I am not saying it is a priority to replace him, but like every other player if an alternative is playing better for a consistent period of time then nobody should be safe from the drop (except maybe Hogg if we are being honest as he wont be dropped).

On another board someone is talking about moving Crosbie to 8 to accommodate the Ritchie/Watson combo. If (and it is projecting forward a lot), Crosbie is playing better then he should be in at flanker.

Crosbie at 8 makes some sense from an Edinburgh perspective too. With Boyle, Darge and Muncaster in the pipeline there's potentially quite a lot of depth, even beyond Ritchie and Watson. I know Darge played 8 for the U20s but I'm not sure that any of them will have the size in the full game for 8. Crosbies best attributes are his power and aggression - it could work and I can see him surpassing Haining and Bradbury once Mata leaves.

Not to repeat my discussion else where, but playing him at 8, especially the way Scotland use 8's takes him out the defensive line which takes away his best attributes; being a niggly, hard hitting pain in the arse.

Is there not an argument for saying you want your best players on the pitch in any position? I have no knowledge of the Ed/Gla players on account of watching so little rugby, but for Scotland the lack of a decent player at 8 has been a problem for a while now. I don't think changing flankers around is going to solve that problem, no matter how well they are playing. If someone is a hard niggly bastard, get him in at 8, cos the guys we have there are not international standard, whereas the guys we have at 6 & 7 are international standard.

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French team for the Italy game. Is there just a ray of hope that we could top the group? It's very inexperienced.

France: Dulin; Thomas, Barraque, Danty, Villiere; Jalibert, Serin (capt); Neti, Mauvaka, Aldegheri, Geraci, Peseti, Woki, Malacou, Jelonch.

Replacements:Baubigny, Kolingar, Atonio, Cazeaux, Rebbadj, Couilloud, Carbonel, Moefana

Donny osmond wrote:Is there not an argument for saying you want your best players on the pitch in any position? I have no knowledge of the Ed/Gla players on account of watching so little rugby, but for Scotland the lack of a decent player at 8 has been a problem for a while now. I don't think changing flankers around is going to solve that problem, no matter how well they are playing. If someone is a hard niggly bastard, get him in at 8, cos the guys we have there are not international standard, whereas the guys we have at 6 & 7 are international standard.

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Yes and no IMO. 8 is a bit more nuanced than it seems and even players that have moved there for Scotland such as Barclay, Bradbury, Wilson, Brown etc have played there at club level.

Then there is the idea that teams tend to use their 8 deep to field kicks (Scotland do too) and that removes Crosbie from the area he is effective which is ferocious defence.

8 may be a problem, and it may continue to be, but I don't think moving a good flanker who is potentially very good at 23 years old to 8 is the best use of his potential. Edinburgh are down to the bare bones and still haven't considered it. And with Watson likely to move on he has a chance to really nail down a spot in the big games and push for honours.

Fagerson has potential, Darge played well for the 20s and Bradbury might come again so there are options without potentially causing detriment to the development of what could be a real quality prospect.

Of course a lot of this is conjecture

I am as keen as anyone for Crosbie to push through but I would say at this stage I'm still more excited about Fagerson. I don't know why you would move him from his favoured position to replace him with an out of position Fagerson.

In time, Ritchie, Crosbie and Fagerson might be a decent balance longer term if Crosbie breaks through.

Lang benching for Quins.

Big D wrote:Lang benching for Quins.

More importantly Hutchinson is back from injury with a try off the bench. Steele also off the bench and Glen Young started in a pack that dominated (not a sentence that you usually see). I doubt that he ever gets capped though.

Looked a bit rusty in the contact area but he’s got such a natural understanding of when and where to run or pass. I don’t know how he fits in with Scotland exactly or if his defence will ever be deemed good enough, but it really seems like we should be finding a way to utilise him.

Steele looked good off the bench as he usually is for Quins.

Yes but CH was never in with a chance of playing next week.

With Lang and Steele/ SHC down the road it suggests Horne and VdW for next week.

Bring on the Irish.

Saturday, dublin, 2.15.

Although I’m probably playing golf.

Mikey Brown wrote:Watson is one of only about 5 or 6 players who shows any aggression in the contact area or takes the ball moving when they carry it. I’d love Crosbie to challenge for a spot but it seems like he’s a little way off actually putting in the performances, no?

Watson is a great flanker and a powerful carrier. Re. Lions selection - I fear he will be seen as just too small. There are a lot of very good flankers around in the home nations at present. Back row selection may be the most competitive of the whole squad.

So taking a punt based on the guys released for English clubs, we are looking at something like:
Kebble
Brown
Fagerson
Cummings
Gray
Ritchie
Watson
Thomson
Price
Weir
Duhan
Johnson
Harris
Graham/Maitland
Hogg

Rambo, Bhatti, Berghan/Nel, Toolis, CdP/Haining, Horne, JVdW, Maitland/Graham/Kinghorn

I reckon Turner will be in there, maybe on the bench.

Is Fagerson injured?

And if Johnson and Harris start, that would be two games in a row with the same centres...

no sleep wrote:I reckon Turner will be in there, maybe on the bench.

Is Fagerson injured?

And if Johnson and Harris start, that would be two games in a row with the same centres...

Possibly on Turner.

Young Fagerson went off injured and they retained Haining and CdP (or they are injured).

I am not sure what other centres are available now. Lang and Jones played club rugby this week.