Trump

[Puja]

Sorry, I wasnt trying to get in to a debate. I am in the real estate, development sector. In a nutshell, he loosened up a few things in my state (and others) like environmental constraints for instance, that were making it extremely hard for any small business like mine to get any work. The only companys that could afford to change out all their heavy equipment to meet the standards were huge national corporations... not the small local businesses trying to compete with them. After 8 or so years of the construction recession, it was truly a welcome change to be able to get back to work in California.

Thanks.

Wouldn't it have made more sense to give help to small businesses to reach environmental targets, though?

By, for instance, buying the old machinery and giving grants to help the small companies buy the new machinery?

Otherwise you're kinda just solving one problem to worsen another...

That was giving help. If you mean monetary help, where would that money come from esp in a recession?

The same place the money came for the regressive tax breaks, the military parade, the military increases, the subsidies for farmers hit by the tariffs, the subsidies for fossil fuel, and everything else that has had extra money splashed on it?

Puja

[Coco]

Thanks.

Wouldn't it have made more sense to give help to small businesses to reach environmental targets, though?

By, for instance, buying the old machinery and giving grants to help the small companies buy the new machinery?

Otherwise you're kinda just solving one problem to worsen another...

That was giving help. If you mean monetary help, where would that money come from esp in a recession?

Not giving tax breaks to people who don't need it? The largest military budget in the world? Fines levied to large corps for breaking the environmental targets?

Tax breaks helped companies start hiring again. That generates state, and federal tax, it gets workers off unemployment benefits, and instead contributes to those funds again. Consumers start buying things and stimulating other businesses... etc etc. Im sure you know how that works. My state has some of the highest taxes for business, so the breaks helped a lot. My state is also the worlds 5th largest economy, passing the UK, so it was a big deal. "YUGE"

Military spending. A lot of that is dependant on the GDP. The US is spending 3.2% of the GDP on what we call the military budget. Of that budget all VA costs including medical benefits for the VA MISSION ACT are included, State Dept is included, Homeland Security, FBI cybersecurity in the Dept of Justice, and part of the Department of Energy is included. Its not just for new tanks and weaponry as it may appear to be in name only.

Fines levied to corpoations would take years. It all seems reasonable and rational but would take quite a bit of time. What he did gave us a much needed shot in the arm to get us out of what seemed to be the worst recession I ever witnessed in my lifetime.

I am not debating, arguing, or even trying to change anyones mind. I am merely telling you a reason I feel President Trump has helped a lot of Americans and small businesses that were circling the drain. That has been part of my personal experience, and if things continue this way I plan to vote for him again with no hesitation.

Everyone has opinions, ideas and thoughts on it. Not everyone has been or will be affected in the same way that I have, and I will not be affected in the same ways other people have been. I hope for the best.

[morepork]

Good on ya Coco. I am firmly in another camp of economics, but I feel you. Don’t agree , but I feel you. Can I say “feel you” a third time without sounding weird? Probably not. There is latitude for a more relevant fiscal philosophy However . Time will tell.

[Coco]

Good on ya Coco. I am firmly in another camp of economics, but I feel you. Don’t agree , but I feel you. Can I say “feel you” a third time without sounding weird? Probably not. There is latitude for a more relevant fiscal philosophy However . Time will tell.

Im just a girl Porkster, what do I know

[Digby]

Good on ya Coco. I am firmly in another camp of economics, but I feel you. Don’t agree , but I feel you. Can I say “feel you” a third time without sounding weird? Probably not. There is latitude for a more relevant fiscal philosophy However . Time will tell.

Im just a girl Porkster, what do I know

Apparently you're required to piss off back where you or your family came from and fix the problems there. This doesn't apply to the fat orange one for reasons that follow no logic

[Puja]

Good on ya Coco. I am firmly in another camp of economics, but I feel you. Don’t agree , but I feel you. Can I say “feel you” a third time without sounding weird? Probably not. There is latitude for a more relevant fiscal philosophy However . Time will tell.

Im just a girl Porkster, what do I know

I'm with morepork in that I disagree with your economics ($1 invested in minimum wage increases returns $1.71 to the economy, whereas $1 in higher rate tax cuts returns 51c), but I do get your position in terms of how it's benefitted your situation and those around you. Makes sense.

Puja

[morepork]

Good on ya Coco. I am firmly in another camp of economics, but I feel you. Don’t agree , but I feel you. Can I say “feel you” a third time without sounding weird? Probably not. There is latitude for a more relevant fiscal philosophy However . Time will tell.

Im just a girl Porkster, what do I know

Apparently you're required to piss off back where you or your family came from and fix the problems there. This doesn't apply to the fat orange one for reasons that follow no logic

Not exactly subtle was it?

[Mikey Brown]

Im just a girl Porkster, what do I know

Apparently you're required to piss off back where you or your family came from and fix the problems there. This doesn't apply to the fat orange one for reasons that follow no logic

Not exactly subtle was it?

You say that as if it won't be brushed aside by the "oh, you liberals claim everything is racism now" crowd.

He could wear a fucking Klan costume and people would still say it's just him trolling.

[morepork]

Theresa May has finally found her bollocks on the way out the door by denouncing Donnel's offensive tweet.

Donnel does not understand diversity and he fears it. If Mike Pence requires a chaperone to accompany any woman that is not his wife to dine with him, imagine the security detail he would need to dine with a second, or even a first generation American female of colour.

Just remember kids, if it's all white, it's all right. Please leave the keys to your time machine with the valet and come on in and join the rest of the 1950s.

[gransoporro]

Tax breaks helped companies start hiring again. That generates state, and federal tax, it gets workers off unemployment benefits, and instead contributes to those funds again. Consumers start buying things and stimulating other businesses... etc etc. Im sure you know how that works. My state has some of the highest taxes for business, so the breaks helped a lot. My state is also the worlds 5th largest economy, passing the UK, so it was a big deal. "YUGE"

Military spending. A lot of that is dependant on the GDP. The US is spending 3.2% of the GDP on what we call the military budget. Of that budget all VA costs including medical benefits for the VA MISSION ACT are included, State Dept is included, Homeland Security, FBI cybersecurity in the Dept of Justice, and part of the Department of Energy is included. Its not just for new tanks and weaponry as it may appear to be in name only.

Fines levied to corpoations would take years. It all seems reasonable and rational but would take quite a bit of time. What he did gave us a much needed shot in the arm to get us out of what seemed to be the worst recession I ever witnessed in my lifetime.

I am not debating, arguing, or even trying to change anyones mind. I am merely telling you a reason I feel President Trump has helped a lot of Americans and small businesses that were circling the drain. That has been part of my personal experience, and if things continue this way I plan to vote for him again with no hesitation.

Everyone has opinions, ideas and thoughts on it. Not everyone has been or will be affected in the same way that I have, and I will not be affected in the same ways other people have been. I hope for the best.

Coco, companies were hiring well before the tax break. The tax break resulted in record share buy backs, so much that Rubio wants to put a limit to it into law. Share buy backs favor shareholders, so those that are rich and have money to invest, down to those that have a 401K.
I looked into the data and could not see neither a jump nor an acceleration of hiring in the year after the tax break was enacted. The trend kept going. We can agree that it is no mean feat, but I question the effect of the tax break on hiring in general. I am sure small businesses leaned more towards investing and hiring, but the rest went for "value to the shareholder".

The hiring and the economy are progressing in line with what started during the Obama administration, and accelerated by the current administration (my opinion is that they are sacrificing the future for the near term, we will see).

As for the military spending, it is 3.1% (it includes VA) of the GDP, so the rest that you mention is 0.1%. And yes, you are correct: the military spending is far more than just weaponry as it includes logistics of all sort, training, healthcare, civilians, and the new Space Force.


And to be clear, I am not picking on you. I am positive you and your business benefited from the tax break and other changes in policy, and you are now doing better.

Still I don't see the entire country benefiting, not even on average. And the trickle down has been proved wrong twice already, and still the GOP went for it the third time: when will they learn their lesson? The result is squeezing even more the middle class.

[morepork]

The Kansas experiment on a national scale...

[gransoporro]

Theresa May has finally found her bollocks on the way out the door by denouncing Donnel's offensive tweet.

Donnel does not understand diversity and he fears it. If Mike Pence requires a chaperone to accompany any woman that is not his wife to dine with him, imagine the security detail he would need to dine with a second, or even a first generation American female of colour.

Just remember kids, if it's all white, it's all right. Please leave the keys to your time machine with the valet and come on in and join the rest of the 1950s.

Imagine if there were women in his security detail?

[morepork]

He would simultaneously ejaculate and soil himself, but he would remain expressionless in an upright sitting position throughout.

[Mikey Brown]

I suppose he’s achieved his goal of distracting from the Epstein stuff.

[cashead]

Would him having raped a 13 year old girl make any difference or is it all just noise at this point?

I'm just trying to imagine what it will take.

His party put Roy Moore up for the special election in Alabama back in 2017, and he nearly won (although, Alabamans are the worst of the fucking worst. They elected Bibb Graves as governor. Twice).

[Mikey Brown]

Would him having raped a 13 year old girl make any difference or is it all just noise at this point?

I'm just trying to imagine what it will take.

His party put Roy Moore up for the special election in Alabama back in 2017, and he nearly won (although, Alabamans are the worst of the fucking worst. They elected Bibb Graves as governor. Twice).

It's clear that sexual harassment/assault/violence aren't a big deal to the core GOP guys, the quality of life of women and minorities really does mean absolutely fuck all if it compromises party interests, but Coco seems to be more level headed than that. I just can't bridge the gap between the two.

I wondered if it were to come out in black and white that the President is indeed a rapist (and the odds of him not having sexually assaulted at least 1 person in his life are looking minuscule at the moment) if that would be enough for her to want him gone. She said yes. So that's that, at least.

I suppose that's the flip side of being the party of "personal responsibility". It doesn't really matter how many vile people are entwined in the GOP because they are all just singular instances of bad people or bad decisions, they somehow don't affect or represent the whole.

[Digby]

Would him having raped a 13 year old girl make any difference or is it all just noise at this point?

I'm just trying to imagine what it will take.

His party put Roy Moore up for the special election in Alabama back in 2017, and he nearly won (although, Alabamans are the worst of the fucking worst. They elected Bibb Graves as governor. Twice).

Someone above, probably morepork, made reference to Rolf Harris and you'd like to be able to say that's going way too far, but then you have to remember he did back Roy Moore, and whilst he now claims he hasn't liked Epstein for a long while by his own admission he knew very young girls were involved from a long time back, and I don't recall him taking out any adverts in the NY Times calling for Epstein to be prosecuted and jailed/executed.

Whether he's done this latest merely as a distraction from Epstein I don't know, I doubt it, saying American Congressional Leaders support Al Qaeda atop some straight up racism seems much more likely about distracting from his policies (failings) on the border, crime, economy/trade, North Korea, Iran...

[morepork]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again now. The anti-immigration thing is the ONLY issue that he is consistent on. He genuinely thinks that diversity is a threat to the white way of life as he knows it. That's abundantly clear by now, surely? These are the actual limits of his world view. There is no master plan here. He has fucked up everything he has ever touched apart from play acting a tough guy on a reality TV show. He just isn't fit for purpose, and it bothers me that people seem to think he is somehow doing good on some level. The odd incidence of deregulation is not part of any coherent strategy, but the consistent lashing out at minorities and women is. This isn't defensible from any logical standpoint whatsoever.

[gransoporro]

One other coherent strategy is "Roll Back Obama Policies". RBOP.

I can tell you, Linda McMahon of WWE fame was well respected for her work. You may not like her personally (apparently she is a tough cookie) but she is respected.

The same people do not like Ben Carson at all. Not as a person, not for his work.

[Which Tyler]

One other coherent strategy is "Roll Back Obama Policies". RBOP.

Personal enrichment?
Hypocrisy?
Playing golf (and cheating at it)?

[Digby]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again now. The anti-immigration thing is the ONLY issue that he is consistent on. He genuinely thinks that diversity is a threat to the white way of life as he knows it. That's abundantly clear by now, surely? These are the actual limits of his world view. There is no master plan here. He has fucked up everything he has ever touched apart from play acting a tough guy on a reality TV show. He just isn't fit for purpose, and it bothers me that people seem to think he is somehow doing good on some level. The odd incidence of deregulation is not part of any coherent strategy, but the consistent lashing out at minorities and women is. This isn't defensible from any logical standpoint whatsoever.

The rollbacks that Trump has announced are tiny in the great scheme of things, the manner in which he's counted them is skewed in the extreme to allow him to claim with a vaguely straight (albeit sweaty) face he's eliminating some vast number for every new one announced, and for all he's actually cut some that does nothing to stop Congress issuing them, the States doing their own thing and even agency regulatory guidance being expanded(agency being such as the EPA or FCC).

And Trump is doing nothing to count costs that will increase elsewhere with some of the costs they've supposedly reduced. And it's the big picture which is important, but they seem worryingly narrow or short term focused in their views. Long term he could very well be increasing health, social and environmental costs whilst making the US less competitive in the longer term

[morepork]

OK. So this is really fucking ugly now, and it will dominate the upcoming election as it is fanned into flames by social media.

[gransoporro]

OK. So this is really fucking ugly now, and it will dominate the upcoming election as it is fanned into flames by social media.

So first the evangelicals started drawing the lines in their fight to abolish abortion (from Georgia and Alabama up to Justice Clarence Thomas).

Now the racist part of the electorate is emboldened too.

It's not flaming just on social media. I get this stuff at parties too. But since I am a middle age straight white male, nobody here wants to send me home...

[Puja]

OK. So this is really fucking ugly now, and it will dominate the upcoming election as it is fanned into flames by social media.

I know your hate of social media is all consuming, but this would be a mess regardless.

There existed a physical rally for the President of the United States, attended by thousands, in which the crowd bayed to "Send Her Home," about a US citizen elected politician poc, who has lived there since she was 2.

I know we all know that happened, but I just needed to write it out to see it in black and white. That is utterly incredible (in the sense of being incredulous).

Puja

[Digby]

If the polling is correct support for Trump went up amongst Republicans after his attacks on the The Squad

Meanwhile Barr has been found in criminal contempt by Congress for failure to handing over documents setting out why a change to the census was deemed necessary. Barr will now have to hope the head of the Justice Department doesn't think the ruling by Congress needs further action