Trump

Post by **Puja** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:25 am

Surely there's an open-and-shut slander case there for Biden and Biden Jnr?

Puja

WaspInWales · Post by **WaspInWales** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:31 am

Puja wrote:Surely there's an open-and-shut slander case there for Biden and Biden Jnr?

Puja

In most countries it would be, but knobheads like Trump hide behind the first amendment. That said, quite a lot of the stuff he says is probably not covered by freedom of speech laws.

It's quite amazing he doesn't get sued a few times a week tbh [emoji2371]

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Post by **Puja** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:13 pm

WaspInWales wrote:
Puja wrote:Surely there's an open-and-shut slander case there for Biden and Biden Jnr?

Puja
In most countries it would be, but knobheads like Trump hide behind the first amendment. That said, quite a lot of the stuff he says is probably not covered by freedom of speech laws.

It's quite amazing he doesn't get sued a few times a week tbh [emoji2371]

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

The first amendment prevents the government from stopping your speech; it doesn't give you licence to say whatever you like. If you say something defamatory without any proof, that's not protected by the first amendment at all.

Puja

WaspInWales · Post by **WaspInWales** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:31 pm

Puja wrote:
WaspInWales wrote:
Puja wrote:Surely there's an open-and-shut slander case there for Biden and Biden Jnr?

Puja
In most countries it would be, but knobheads like Trump hide behind the first amendment. That said, quite a lot of the stuff he says is probably not covered by freedom of speech laws.

It's quite amazing he doesn't get sued a few times a week tbh [emoji2371]

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
The first amendment prevents the government from stopping your speech; it doesn't give you licence to say whatever you like. If you say something defamatory without any proof, that's not protected by the first amendment at all.

Puja

But yet many, including Trump (including for many years before he was elected) continue to get away with such claims...and the 1st amendment is the reason.

Post by **Puja** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:46 pm

WaspInWales wrote:
Puja wrote:
WaspInWales wrote:In most countries it would be, but knobheads like Trump hide behind the first amendment. That said, quite a lot of the stuff he says is probably not covered by freedom of speech laws.

It's quite amazing he doesn't get sued a few times a week tbh [emoji2371]

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
The first amendment prevents the government from stopping your speech; it doesn't give you licence to say whatever you like. If you say something defamatory without any proof, that's not protected by the first amendment at all.

Puja
But yet many, including Trump (including for many years before he was elected) continue to get away with such claims...and the 1st amendment is the reason.

Idiocy and wilful misinterpretation of the law isn't a legal defence though - plays well in the media, but if it ever went to court then that 'defence' wouldn't last a second.

I'm baffled as to why Biden isn't suing. A lot of what Trump says is couched as questions and "people say" which does protect him, but this was a direct accusation of corruption and I'm amazed that Biden's letting it ride.

Puja

WaspInWales · Post by **WaspInWales** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:09 pm

Puja wrote:
WaspInWales wrote:
Puja wrote:
The first amendment prevents the government from stopping your speech; it doesn't give you licence to say whatever you like. If you say something defamatory without any proof, that's not protected by the first amendment at all.

Puja
But yet many, including Trump (including for many years before he was elected) continue to get away with such claims...and the 1st amendment is the reason.
Idiocy and wilful misinterpretation of the law isn't a legal defence though - plays well in the media, but if it ever went to court then that 'defence' wouldn't last a second.

I'm baffled as to why Biden isn't suing. A lot of what Trump says is couched as questions and "people say" which does protect him, but this was a direct accusation of corruption and I'm amazed that Biden's letting it ride.

Puja

Completely agree with you mate, it's absolutely bonkers.

If Trump was in the UK, he's be sued a few times a week.

Digby · Post by **Digby** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:46 pm

What exactly has Trump said that one might sue for?

WaspInWales · Post by **WaspInWales** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:59 pm

Digby wrote:What exactly has Trump said that one might sue for?

He has called individuals crooked, corrupt and quite a few other defamatory claims including accusing others of specific illegal acts.

He constantly questions opponents character, intelligence, professional ability.

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Digby · Post by **Digby** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:31 pm

WaspInWales wrote:
Digby wrote:What exactly has Trump said that one might sue for?
He has called individuals crooked, corrupt and quite a few other defamatory claims including accusing others of specific illegal acts.

He constantly questions opponents character, intelligence, professional ability.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

And a child gaining very generous employment could well get filed under corrupt , which is an odd charge for Trump to make given what he inherited and his own spawn, but Trump being odd doesn't for me shift the charge of corruption/nepotism into being one you could sue for. I'm not saying there's nothing Trump has said which one couldn't take him to task for, but ugly language seems a push

Post by **Puja** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:06 pm

Digby wrote:
WaspInWales wrote:
Digby wrote:What exactly has Trump said that one might sue for?
He has called individuals crooked, corrupt and quite a few other defamatory claims including accusing others of specific illegal acts.

He constantly questions opponents character, intelligence, professional ability.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
And a child gaining very generous employment could well get filed under corrupt , which is an odd charge for Trump to make given what he inherited and his own spawn, but Trump being odd doesn't for me shift the charge of corruption/nepotism into being one you could sue for. I'm not saying there's nothing Trump has said which one couldn't take him to task for, but ugly language seems a push

The phrase that I thought was actionable was "Joe and Hunter Biden are stone-cold corrupt." Given that corruption is a hell of an accusation to make of a politician and that there appears to be no evidence of corruption on the part of either Biden, is that not slander?

Puja

Digby · Post by **Digby** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:15 pm

Puja wrote:
Digby wrote:
WaspInWales wrote:He has called individuals crooked, corrupt and quite a few other defamatory claims including accusing others of specific illegal acts.

He constantly questions opponents character, intelligence, professional ability.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
And a child gaining very generous employment could well get filed under corrupt , which is an odd charge for Trump to make given what he inherited and his own spawn, but Trump being odd doesn't for me shift the charge of corruption/nepotism into being one you could sue for. I'm not saying there's nothing Trump has said which one couldn't take him to task for, but ugly language seems a push
The phrase that I thought was actionable was "Joe and Hunter Biden are stone-cold corrupt." Given that corruption is a hell of an accusation to make of a politician and that there appears to be no evidence of corruption on the part of either Biden, is that not slander?

Puja

It's certainly not slander, it might be libel, and beyond that pedantry I'd still wonder if calling them corrupt when junior landed a highly paid job as child of the VP isn't open to just such a charge?

Beyond that again Biden isn't being strong enough going after Trump for this, though it's not clear how you go after someone who shouts as loudly as Trump and spouts as much crap as Trump. In a sane world Trump would have the influence of David Icke, but when he has such a following it is no doubt tricky to hit back. But that's not my problem, I'm not the one who wants to be president, and Biden looks weak. If this encourages the Dems not to vote for Biden I'd be quite pleased with that

WaspInWales · Post by **WaspInWales** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:22 pm

Digby wrote:
Puja wrote:
Digby wrote:
And a child gaining very generous employment could well get filed under corrupt , which is an odd charge for Trump to make given what he inherited and his own spawn, but Trump being odd doesn't for me shift the charge of corruption/nepotism into being one you could sue for. I'm not saying there's nothing Trump has said which one couldn't take him to task for, but ugly language seems a push
The phrase that I thought was actionable was "Joe and Hunter Biden are stone-cold corrupt." Given that corruption is a hell of an accusation to make of a politician and that there appears to be no evidence of corruption on the part of either Biden, is that not slander?

Puja

It's certainly not slander, it might be libel, and beyond that pedantry I'd still wonder if calling them corrupt when junior landed a highly paid job as child of the VP isn't open to just such a charge?

Beyond that again Biden isn't being strong enough going after Trump for this, though it's not clear how you go after someone who shouts as loudly as Trump and spouts as much crap as Trump. In a sane world Trump would have the influence of David Icke, but when he has such a following it is no doubt tricky to hit back. But that's not my problem, I'm not the one who wants to be president, and Biden looks weak. If this encourages the Dems not to vote for Biden I'd be quite pleased with that

It's slanderous as Trump said it to a room full of press.

He has probably Tweeted it too, making it libelous as well [emoji848][emoji23]

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Digby · Post by **Digby** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:33 pm

WaspInWales wrote:
Digby wrote:
Puja wrote:
The phrase that I thought was actionable was "Joe and Hunter Biden are stone-cold corrupt." Given that corruption is a hell of an accusation to make of a politician and that there appears to be no evidence of corruption on the part of either Biden, is that not slander?

Puja

It's certainly not slander, it might be libel, and beyond that pedantry I'd still wonder if calling them corrupt when junior landed a highly paid job as child of the VP isn't open to just such a charge?

Beyond that again Biden isn't being strong enough going after Trump for this, though it's not clear how you go after someone who shouts as loudly as Trump and spouts as much crap as Trump. In a sane world Trump would have the influence of David Icke, but when he has such a following it is no doubt tricky to hit back. But that's not my problem, I'm not the one who wants to be president, and Biden looks weak. If this encourages the Dems not to vote for Biden I'd be quite pleased with that
It's slanderous as Trump said it to a room full of press.

He has probably Tweeted it too, making it libelous as well [emoji848][emoji23]

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

That's not how it works is it, just oral Vs written?

Slander is defamatory comment that's transient in nature and libel permanent, so if you say something in front of a load of cameras that creates a permanent record of a defamatory comment and thus is libellous, or is that wrong?

WaspInWales · Post by **WaspInWales** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:46 pm

Digby wrote:
WaspInWales wrote:
Digby wrote:

It's certainly not slander, it might be libel, and beyond that pedantry I'd still wonder if calling them corrupt when junior landed a highly paid job as child of the VP isn't open to just such a charge?

Beyond that again Biden isn't being strong enough going after Trump for this, though it's not clear how you go after someone who shouts as loudly as Trump and spouts as much crap as Trump. In a sane world Trump would have the influence of David Icke, but when he has such a following it is no doubt tricky to hit back. But that's not my problem, I'm not the one who wants to be president, and Biden looks weak. If this encourages the Dems not to vote for Biden I'd be quite pleased with that
It's slanderous as Trump said it to a room full of press.

He has probably Tweeted it too, making it libelous as well [emoji848][emoji23]

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
That's not how it works is it, just oral Vs written?

Slander is defamatory comment that's transient in nature and libel permanent, so if you say something in front of a load of cameras that creates a permanent record of a defamatory comment and thus is libellous, or is that wrong?

You'd probably have to ask Eugene for the finer details, but I do believe slander is spoken defamation and libel is something published. I think you're probably correct about the permanence of the comment/claim.

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Post by **Puja** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:35 am

Digby wrote:
Puja wrote:
Digby wrote:
And a child gaining very generous employment could well get filed under corrupt , which is an odd charge for Trump to make given what he inherited and his own spawn, but Trump being odd doesn't for me shift the charge of corruption/nepotism into being one you could sue for. I'm not saying there's nothing Trump has said which one couldn't take him to task for, but ugly language seems a push
The phrase that I thought was actionable was "Joe and Hunter Biden are stone-cold corrupt." Given that corruption is a hell of an accusation to make of a politician and that there appears to be no evidence of corruption on the part of either Biden, is that not slander?

Puja

It's certainly not slander, it might be libel, and beyond that pedantry I'd still wonder if calling them corrupt when junior landed a highly paid job as child of the VP isn't open to just such a charge?

Beyond that again Biden isn't being strong enough going after Trump for this, though it's not clear how you go after someone who shouts as loudly as Trump and spouts as much crap as Trump. In a sane world Trump would have the influence of David Icke, but when he has such a following it is no doubt tricky to hit back. But that's not my problem, I'm not the one who wants to be president, and Biden looks weak. If this encourages the Dems not to vote for Biden I'd be quite pleased with that

I don't see how Hunter getting a highly paid job makes Joe corrupt. There's no suggestion that Joe procured the job for him or that he did him any favours as VP - obviously he gets a leg up in the business world because of his surname and connections, but there's been no rational claim of corruption putside of Trump's head.

Puja

Digby · Post by **Digby** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:58 am

Puja wrote:
Digby wrote:
Puja wrote:
The phrase that I thought was actionable was "Joe and Hunter Biden are stone-cold corrupt." Given that corruption is a hell of an accusation to make of a politician and that there appears to be no evidence of corruption on the part of either Biden, is that not slander?

Puja

It's certainly not slander, it might be libel, and beyond that pedantry I'd still wonder if calling them corrupt when junior landed a highly paid job as child of the VP isn't open to just such a charge?

Beyond that again Biden isn't being strong enough going after Trump for this, though it's not clear how you go after someone who shouts as loudly as Trump and spouts as much crap as Trump. In a sane world Trump would have the influence of David Icke, but when he has such a following it is no doubt tricky to hit back. But that's not my problem, I'm not the one who wants to be president, and Biden looks weak. If this encourages the Dems not to vote for Biden I'd be quite pleased with that
I don't see how Hunter getting a highly paid job makes Joe corrupt. There's no suggestion that Joe procured the job for him or that he did him any favours as VP - obviously he gets a leg up in the business world because of his surname and connections, but there's been no rational claim of corruption putside of Trump's head.

Puja

I'd assume in the US given how strong they are on free speech to the point of demented speech you would struggle to say possible nepotism cannot be labelled stone-cold corruption. Though again odd in Trump world is how often he tries to sue people who say the least thing about him

gransoporro · Post by **gransoporro** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:26 pm

I can definitely understand the suspicion of nepotism here.

But unless there is some proof that he got his job(s) as part of a pay for play, there is no room for a specific investigation in US, and all of it is an allegation at best. It does not make Joe Biden a corrupt individual.

Other countries may be more amenable, in US, allegedly, they investigate crimes not individuals.

Digby · Post by **Digby** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:14 pm

gransoporro wrote:
Other countries may be more amenable, in US, allegedly, they investigate crimes not individuals.

Who is they? After all these years of Trump chanting 'lock her up' it would seem the fat orange one is very happy to go at the individual level

gransoporro · Post by **gransoporro** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:31 pm

They is the DOJ. Unless Barr has introduced the Trump rule (“I have the absolute power to do so”).

canta_brian · Post by **canta_brian** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:45 pm

One would assume Trump knows nepotism when he sees it.

Digby · Post by **Digby** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:52 pm

canta_brian wrote:One would assume Trump knows nepotism when he sees it.

Trump himself is a self made man, and in no way the beneficiary of a huge inheritance from a property developer who was in no way corrupt

Digby · Post by **Digby** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:51 pm

Did Turkey promise to investigate Joe Biden if they could massacre the Kurds in northern Syria?

Mikey Brown · Post by **Mikey Brown** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:31 pm

I’m not sure how many times I can have the thought “oh, now he’s really lost it.”

gransoporro · Post by **gransoporro** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:53 pm

I can’t even get started...

I can’t.

Ok, I will have a go.

THANK GOD our GREAT PRESIDENT has UNMATCHED WISDOM!!! He will DESTROY the turkey like he did before!!!
MAGA!!! MAGA!!! MAGA!!!

Digby · Post by **Digby** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:01 pm

Is he thinking of destroying (scarfing down) a thanksgiving turkey?

RugbyRebels

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