RugbyRebels

Re: Daly - I totally agree, have thought this for a while but the issue is that he's just not going to get any game time at club level there. It may be that it's not an issue, but it's not ideal.

I think he has a great skill set for it personally, and I think while the Ford - Daly - JJ midfield lacks a bit of a smash, it makes up for it with a fantastic amount of the skill

Daly can also be an excellent FB. And England have a need there.

As a Wasps fan I like Daly a lot but between him and JJ for OC I'd lean towards JJ for his fantastic defence. When you've Fazlet inside you you've got to be a good defender or the ship's sunk. As much as I'd like Daly in the team I don't think he'd be strong enough to play alongside Ford. The likes of SA and NZ would send runners down that channel day and night. Attacking wise yes, love to see it but overall it's OC or 23 for me. He has everything you need in a 23.

Wood gets a media story - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37373646

Not perhaps a surprise, and he still looks Frozen out of the England squad anyway.

Read some reports the other day that Italy are after Lozowski. He's said that, while he's proud of his Italian ancestry, he mostly feels English and doesn't want to commit elsewhere at this time.

Kinda torn on this one actually. On the one hand, he's a talented player and we never want to lose one of those. On the other, does he really have a chance of a long and fulfilling England career? Will he really get ahead of Ford/Farrell/Slade to make more than a handful of appearances? It seems mean to be dog-in-the-manger when he could get 100 caps for Italy.

Puja

Glaws wise I'd say:
Kvesic is struggling to hit form right now.
Morgan puts in about 10/15 minutes work spread across the 80 (30 seconds here, 20 seconds there etc).
12T looks great for large parts of the game but then inevitably goes all Keystone Cops for a period.
Sharples and Purdy - both look sharo but dont have a cat in hells chance of an international recall/call up (Sharples should though).
Marshall - looks the real deal at full back. I'd imagine he's on Eddie Jones' radar - the guys a class act.
Savage - incredible work rate and does everything right but in an era of riches for England in that position he's never going to get a look in.

Good to see Catt, Thomas and Watson back for Bath this weekend.
Less good to see Clark and JJ spending the match on the physio's bench.

Puja wrote:Read some reports the other day that Italy are after Lozowski. He's said that, while he's proud of his Italian ancestry, he mostly feels English and doesn't want to commit elsewhere at this time.

Kinda torn on this one actually. On the one hand, he's a talented player and we never want to lose one of those. On the other, does he really have a chance of a long and fulfilling England career? Will he really get ahead of Ford/Farrell/Slade to make more than a handful of appearances? It seems mean to be dog-in-the-manger when he could get 100 caps for Italy.

Puja

I'd give him a couple of seasons before we write him off for Eng but I think you'll be correct.

Can't agree re dalys defence. From the moment he burst onto the scene - playing full back actually and smashing guys like Steve Thompson running at him full pelt one one one I seem to remember - he's looked an excellent defender. Anyone who has watched both wasps games this season will have seen wasps win about 2 pens and 3 scrims simply off Daly absolutely smashing the opposition receiver in their own 22 from a wasps kick off.
He's never going to carry into contact like a nonu or Roberts and I agree that a ford, faz, Daly midfield may look light there.

But that then puts an onus to pick the right people elsewhere. Watson and roko brought into the line like a Cohen would help. Itoje and Billy give us that oomph getting them running on the 10. Robshaw and hask don't and nor does kruis really so there's still an issue to solve there.

But defence wise I'd back that midfield totally.

Puja wrote:Read some reports the other day that Italy are after Lozowski. He's said that, while he's proud of his Italian ancestry, he mostly feels English and doesn't want to commit elsewhere at this time.

Kinda torn on this one actually. On the one hand, he's a talented player and we never want to lose one of those. On the other, does he really have a chance of a long and fulfilling England career? Will he really get ahead of Ford/Farrell/Slade to make more than a handful of appearances? It seems mean to be dog-in-the-manger when he could get 100 caps for Italy.

Puja

Surprised you say that when I see you in another thread arguing that Tom Marshall shouldn't be counted as EQP! Should we not be applauding Lozowski for not chasing the easy cap (and additional recognition / sponsorship that comes with it) in favour of following his dream?

One cap for England may well trump 100 for Italy. And even if he is 4th or 5th choice, Stephen Donald was about that and he ended up kicking the goal that won his country a World Cup!


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6.5 wrote:

Puja wrote:Read some reports the other day that Italy are after Lozowski. He's said that, while he's proud of his Italian ancestry, he mostly feels English and doesn't want to commit elsewhere at this time.

Kinda torn on this one actually. On the one hand, he's a talented player and we never want to lose one of those. On the other, does he really have a chance of a long and fulfilling England career? Will he really get ahead of Ford/Farrell/Slade to make more than a handful of appearances? It seems mean to be dog-in-the-manger when he could get 100 caps for Italy.

Puja

Surprised you say that when I see you in another thread arguing that Tom Marshall shouldn't be counted as EQP! Should we not be applauding Lozowski for not chasing the easy cap (and additional recognition / sponsorship that comes with it) in favour of following his dream?

One cap for England may well trump 100 for Italy. And even if he is 4th or 5th choice, Stephen Donald was about that and he ended up kicking the goal that won his country a World Cup!


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Fair point. I guess I would respect Lozowski for that. I had a lot of time for Joe Maddocks when he told England that he wasn't interested because he was a Kiwi and nothing else.

I think I just feel a lot of sympathy for Italy - they have been terribly hard done by with their Pro 12 dealings and I'd like to see them do well.

Puja

Hucks wrote:Can't agree re dalys defence. From the moment he burst onto the scene - playing full back actually and smashing guys like Steve Thompson running at him full pelt one one one I seem to remember - he's looked an excellent defender. Anyone who has watched both wasps games this season will have seen wasps win about 2 pens and 3 scrims simply off Daly absolutely smashing the opposition receiver in their own 22 from a wasps kick off.
He's never going to carry into contact like a nonu or Roberts and I agree that a ford, faz, Daly midfield may look light there.

But that then puts an onus to pick the right people elsewhere. Watson and roko brought into the line like a Cohen would help. Itoje and Billy give us that oomph getting them running on the 10. Robshaw and hask don't and nor does kruis really so there's still an issue to solve there.

But defence wise I'd back that midfield totally.

Daly certainly can tackle robustly but there's a difference between chasing a kick off and having big runners constantly charging down your channel. The fact is his defence isn't as sound as JJ at OC so I would guess it wouldn't be hugely reliable at IC. And I was meaning a Ford, Daly, JJ lineup would be a little lightweight rather than a Ford, Fazlet, Daly lineup which should be OK and virtually what we've got now.

I'm also in the camp of now wanting to see Daly play 15 again. Something like 11. Watson 13. JJ 14. Roko/Yarde/A.N.O 15. Daly could be a ludicrously quick and skillful set of outside backs.

If we're going to shoehorn him in, I'd move Watson to 15 and put Daly on the wing.
However, I'd have him in the 23 shirt and make him earn the start at 13.

For a long time I couldn't really see what the fuss was with Joseph and now I'd hate to be without him.

If Watson really is better at 15 then great, but I just haven't seen him there enough I guess. I suppose his defensive lapses have largely been quite specific to being on the wing and may not really surface at 15.

Puja wrote:Read some reports the other day that Italy are after Lozowski. He's said that, while he's proud of his Italian ancestry, he mostly feels English and doesn't want to commit elsewhere at this time.

Kinda torn on this one actually. On the one hand, he's a talented player and we never want to lose one of those. On the other, does he really have a chance of a long and fulfilling England career? Will he really get ahead of Ford/Farrell/Slade to make more than a handful of appearances? It seems mean to be dog-in-the-manger when he could get 100 caps for Italy.

Puja

Well, this is his first real run of games, no? And he's looking very good. Sure, it's easy to look good behind a pack like Sarries, but he's looking good none the less.

If I were Jones, I'd have him firmly in the radar. Looks better than Farrell already

Bath:
Charlie Ewels - Quieter today, and still out of position; did nothing wrong.

George Ford - Bit quiet when Worcester were dominant in the first half, but key to our resurgence in the second. Kicked 7/8 (18/23 +3 for the season)
Jonathan Joseph - DNP, injured
Semesa Rokoduguni - How is he not sitting on 20+ caps?
Anthony Watson - Went well on the wing, good to get on the score sheet first game back.

Fringe: Attwood - Good solid performance yesterday; did what we expect of him - but can he do it consistently against the better teams?

ESPN stat.s TBA

Roko's lack of caps really is a mystery. Surely Jones has to consider him when the EPS is named?

Beasties wrote:Roko's lack of caps really is a mystery. Surely Jones has to consider him when the EPS is named?

Not much of a mystery really - before/during the World Cup, May and Watson were the incumbents and post World Cup, it's been Nowell and Watson. I'm pretty sure Yarde is the only other winger to have featured in the Eddie Jones era.

It would be totally reasonable to argue that Roko should be ahead of Yarde. He definitely should be on current/recent form.

Having said that, Yarde's try scoring record (6 tries in 9 caps) for England is good and most of his tries have actually come in difficult games against top 6 opposition (2 vs Argentina, 2vs NZ and 1 each against Wales and Australia), so I can understand why Eddie has selected him.

IIRC Roko's also picked-up some unfortunately timed injuries which have prevented him from being selected when he looked like he would get a shot.

Nowell and May will be touch and go for the AIs, so with Yarde out of form, I'd hope Roko will get his chance alongside Watson.

It'd be totally reasonable to have Roko ahead of Nowell, too. In fact, I'd say it'd be blindingly obvious to have Roko ahead of Nowell.

Beasties wrote:

Hucks wrote:Can't agree re dalys defence. From the moment he burst onto the scene - playing full back actually and smashing guys like Steve Thompson running at him full pelt one one one I seem to remember - he's looked an excellent defender. Anyone who has watched both wasps games this season will have seen wasps win about 2 pens and 3 scrims simply off Daly absolutely smashing the opposition receiver in their own 22 from a wasps kick off.
He's never going to carry into contact like a nonu or Roberts and I agree that a ford, faz, Daly midfield may look light there.

But that then puts an onus to pick the right people elsewhere. Watson and roko brought into the line like a Cohen would help. Itoje and Billy give us that oomph getting them running on the 10. Robshaw and hask don't and nor does kruis really so there's still an issue to solve there.

But defence wise I'd back that midfield totally.

Daly certainly can tackle robustly but there's a difference between chasing a kick off and having big runners constantly charging down your channel. The fact is his defence isn't as sound as JJ at OC so I would guess it wouldn't be hugely reliable at IC. And I was meaning a Ford, Daly, JJ lineup would be a little lightweight rather than a Ford, Fazlet, Daly lineup which should be OK and virtually what we've got now.

Haven't seen much of the heavyweight 12 from Faz either in attack or defence. He still looks like a makeweight IC shoed in from FH. He is doing an adequate but not great job. Jones has better choices at his disposal. Faz does not come close to Daly/JJ when it comes to footwork and speed. I'd love to see a Daly/JJ combination outside Ford tried at some point. If Tuilagi gan be juggled about at 12/13, then why not Daly, who is a far superior rugby player.
If Daly is not up to the defensive role of a 12, then I doubt that Henry Slade is either. (But I think both are up to it, and the team gains in attacking options with either of them there).

Is that based on anything other than their stature? Slade seems a very good defender to me, Daly is brave but can be bulldozed on occasion. I guess we haven't seen either defend enough at 12 but we do know Farrell is incredibly inconsistent as a defender there.

It was great to see Slade get some time at 12, but horrible to watch the Quins defence dragged around and opened up like that, his range of passing really is fantastic.

I think with distributors of his and Ford's quality, and a vaguely competent 9, we would score more points than we'd lose from Farrell's kicking.

Mikey Brown wrote:Is that based on anything other than their stature? Slade seems a very good defender to me, Daly is brave but can be bulldozed on occasion. I guess we haven't seen either defend enough at 12 but we do know Farrell is incredibly inconsistent as a defender there.

It was great to see Slade get some time at 12, but horrible to watch the Quins defence dragged around and opened up like that, his range of passing really is fantastic.

I think with distributors of his and Ford's quality, and a vaguely competent 9, we would score more points than we'd lose from Farrell's kicking.

I'd like to see him at 12 against a more competent team, tbh. We were shocking, again.

EPS watch for Quins:

Marler was poo.
Buchanan was poo.
Sinckler was the best Quins front row.
Twomey isn't international class.
Robshaw worked hard without any reward.
Wallace does good work at ruck time, but I still feel his fringe defence just isn't good enough.
Clifford tried, but doesn't have the nous of Easter or the power of Billy. Needs to step up.
Care was mediocre.
Swiel was mediocre.
Yarde and Walker were good going forward, slightly less so defending.
Marchant was overrun, needs better around him to ease him into this senior malarkey.
Brown was our best back, and he wasn't at his best.

So, I would only have Robshaw near a starting spot, tbh.

The way Ford has kicked so far this season I'm not sure Eng would lose any kicking points with Ford kicking v playing Farrell at IC.

Mellsblue wrote:The way Ford has kicked so far this season I'm not sure Eng would lose any kicking points with Ford kicking v playing Farrell at IC.

18 from 22 = 81.81%
Plus 3 DGs

ETA: Since September 1st 2014:
Ford has hit 249 shots from the tee; from 324 efforts - Strike Rate = 76.85% + 10 DGs in 62 matches
Faz. has hit 231 shots from the tee; from 289 efforts - Strike Rate = 79.93% + 3 DGs in 52 matches

Between them, they've scored 1111 points from the tee in 114 matches; an average of 9.75 points per match.
That kicking percentage difference amounts to about 0.3 points per match.