RugbyRebels

rowan wrote:

Digby wrote:

rowan wrote:
Many Africans, Indians, Native Americans, Polynesians and Aboriginals feel the same way about the British, of course.

Firstly when that says British I suspect we should be saying American, Australian, New Zealanders, and then for all a lot of our (British) history is appalling we're both a long way out of the picture, without wanting to suggest history dosesn't inform the present, and not threatening to come back or running military manoeuvres on their borders or even in their country.

I also can't say I've met any Africans or Indians who feel the same way about the British as one finds for Russia in FInland, Sweden, Georgia, Poland, Romania... maybe that is the case for those other groups I've not spent enough time with or met enough members from those groups

I agree with your last comment, because the resentment among the native peoples in Africa, India, North America, Australia and Polynesia toward the British runs much much deeper than that of Eastern Europeans toward the Russians. & that is because the crimes were much much greater, of course. & while Russia, with its capital in Moscow, is rightly perceived as the natural successor to the former Soviet Union, let's not forget that the leader widely regarded as the perpetrator of much of the suffering that occurred was not Russian but Georgian. Very different.

In Bulgaria, there are very mixed feelings. Russia helped liberate them from the Ottomans, However they see future in the West. The only people I have met who are what we call pro Russians are usually half Russian. Their memories of Communism are very different depending on their position with the Party at the time. Both my partner's grandmothers lived the period very differently.

& let's not forget the Muslims of Bulgaria and the former Yugoslavia. Many of them emigrated to Turkey and are very happy here with the freedom to practise their religion. They are more inclined to despise their former homelands than Russia, due to the discrimination and oppression they suffered there. The dominant haplogroups in Western Turkey are in fact Greeks, Bulgarians and Balkanian.

rowan wrote:& let's not forget the Muslims of Bulgaria and the former Yugoslavia. Many of them emigrated to Turkey and are very happy here with the freedom to practise their religion. They are more inclined to despise their former homelands than Russia, due to the discrimination and oppression they suffered there. The dominant haplogroups in Western Turkey are in fact Greeks, Bulgarians and Balkanian.

There is still quite a strong Muslim communities in the Rhodopes. It is quite amusing that you talk about discrimination against Muslims in Bulgaria, seeing how the Ottomans treated Christians in Bulgaria, particularly in the Pirin Mountains.

During my History courses, I also remember large amount of Anatolian Greek being massacred by the Ottomans/Turks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_genocide

rowan wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Digby wrote:
It's one of the defining features going across eastern Europe just how much the ordinary person hates the Russians, and I don't tend to find hate would be the wrong word. Russia doesn't really feature that much in British culture, we're much more likely to consider/discuss Germany, France, Spain, Australia, the US and probably a good few more before we'd get onto Russia, but for those who've been subject to Soviet/Russian rule or the threat of such there's much more consideration and disregard for Russia

Indeed. Aside from the ethnic Russians living in these countries (obviously) it's not surprising to find wariness and indeed hatred for Russia amongst the rest of the population.

Many Africans, Indians, Native Americans, Polynesians and Aboriginals feel the same way about the British, of course.

Im sure some do, but the British empire is no longer a world player. To the former countries of the USSR and the Eastern satellite countries of the warsaw pact the threat from Moscow is still very much alive and well. Interesting comparison you bring but not one that is actually that relevant in today's politics.

Adder wrote:

rowan wrote:& let's not forget the Muslims of Bulgaria and the former Yugoslavia. Many of them emigrated to Turkey and are very happy here with the freedom to practise their religion. They are more inclined to despise their former homelands than Russia, due to the discrimination and oppression they suffered there. The dominant haplogroups in Western Turkey are in fact Greeks, Bulgarians and Balkanian.

There is still quite a strong Muslim communities in the Rhodopes. It is quite amusing that you talk about discrimination against Muslims in Bulgaria, seeing how the Ottomans treated Christians in Bulgaria, particularly in the Pirin Mountains.

During my History courses, I also remember large amount of Anatolian Greek being massacred by the Ottomans/Turks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_genocide

I don't see anything inconsistent about that, letalone 'amusing.' I've read a great deal on the topic since coming here 12 years ago, of course, and one thing that both Turkish and non-Turkish historians seem to agree on is that many Christians throughout the Balkans welcomed the Ottomans as liberators from the church.

I'm also well-versed on the history of the Ottomans and Greeks in relation to one another, but this seems to be getting quite a long way off-topic. The only point I was making with my comment about Muslims who emigrated here from the Balkans was that the resentment appeared to be confined to their ancestral homelands and not about Russia or the USSR at all.