RugbyRebels

4. Who gives a rat's cock?

The question is for Wasps. If the answers are yes, no, yes, then he would have to concede that the answer I gave to his own question, which enraged him so much, was in fact a perfectly rational one.

rowan wrote:Okay, perhaps you could answer these 3 simple questions:

1 - Is Turkey in Nato?

2 - Is the media/entertainment industry of a Nato member likely to propagate anti-US propaganda?

3 - Is the rest of the Middle East not littered with US-controlled leaderships and US allies?

rowan wrote:Okay, perhaps you could answer these 3 simple questions:

1 - Is Turkey in Nato?

2 - Is the media/entertainment industry of a Nato member likely to propagate anti-US propaganda?

3 - Is the rest of the Middle East not littered with US-controlled leaderships and US allies?

Careful with the smilies rowan...wouldn't want anyone to think you were losing your cool.

1 - Yes

2 - I wasn't asking if it was likely to happen, I was more interested in facts and as I have discovered, it clearly does happen.

3 - I'll answer this question with another. Are you seriously suggesting that anti-American propaganda does not exist in media/entertainment in the ME?

Again, I've already found plenty of evidence to the contrary...and with good reason too!

With reference to your comments about member states of NATO. I'm certain that a little research will show anti-US propaganda exists in the arts/media/entertainment in many of the 28 member states.

WaspInWales wrote:

rowan wrote:Okay, perhaps you could answer these 3 simple questions:

1 - Is Turkey in Nato?

2 - Is the media/entertainment industry of a Nato member likely to propagate anti-US propaganda?

3 - Is the rest of the Middle East not littered with US-controlled leaderships and US allies?

Careful with the smilies rowan...wouldn't want anyone to think you were losing your cool.

1 - Yes

2 - I wasn't asking if it was likely to happen, I was more interested in facts and as I have discovered, it clearly does happen.

3 - I'll answer this question with another. Are you seriously suggesting that anti-American propaganda does not exist in media/entertainment in the ME?

Again, I've already found plenty of evidence to the contrary...and with good reason too!

With reference to your comments about member states of NATO. I'm certain that a little research will show anti-US propaganda exists in the arts/media/entertainment in many of the 28 member states.

I've clearly stated from the outset that I am commenting on my own experience living in the Middle East for 12 years, during which I've worked for the local press and read it daily in both English and Turkish, while watching Turkish TV news for several hours each day in addition. The fact is, we are bombarded with pro-American propaganda - from America - and this has increased with the arrival of satellite TV and the internet.

rowan wrote:I've clearly stated from the outset that I am commenting on my own experience living in the Middle East for 12 years, during which I've worked for the local press and read it daily in both English and Turkish, while watching Turkish TV news for several hours each day in addition. The fact is, we are bombarded with pro-American propaganda - from America - and this has increased with the arrival of satellite TV and the internet.

So why ask a question about the likelihood of something happening?

I'm not disputing that pro-American propaganda exists anywhere..that wasn't my question at all and yes, I would accept the globalisation of the US entertainment industry is going to push that narrative but again, that wasn't my question.

Anyway, lets just agree to disagree. I've found plenty of examples that answer my question.

Enjoy your pro-US bubble

WaspInWales wrote:

Vengeful Glutton wrote:What an odd fellow you are. You watch US tv shows and you're surprised that their world view is through a red, white, blue, starry lens?

You're in the UK right? In terms of death, destruction and sweet heart deals with dodgy dictators, your country is almost as bad as the US. Some of the most well crafted torture chambers were sold to ME countries by you boyos. That and training on "special techniques".

You're in here whining about America?

My own brethren received a donation from the Choctaw Injun during Gorta Mor. About the same time, Micker immergants were assisting in the destruction of native Americans.

Is that irony?

What the fuck are you on about?

I'm neither surprised about the US portraying Russia, NK et al as the villains and neither am I whining about America. You may be confusing my opposition to Trump (in another thread) as opposition to the country but you're wrong.

I created this thread as I was curious about how the US is portrayed in movies and TV shows in countries which are usually on the receiving end of US negativity. It's really that simple.

I don't watch Russian, North Korean and/or Middle Eastern telly so thought that creating a thread to ask the question to others who may be familiar with tv in those countries could answer.

Again, it's really that simple so there's no need to for you to offer opinions on things that were not asked, but thanks anyway.

I'd imagine they're portrayed as the bad guys? Whilst NK, Russia etc. are the good guys. I think it's called propaganda.

FWIW, it would be nice to see a movie that tells the other side of the story, or tells both sides.

I can't recall seeing a movie about 'nam from the Viet Cong/NVA's point of view. That would be interesting.

Maybe a movie about Afghanistan, as told from the ordinary Soviet soldier's pov? Of course, our militant Islamist friends feeding opium to Soviet prisoners and then skinning them alive wouldn't go down to well with the "progressive" thinkers in the west.

Do your research, you pretentious divot.

They sure as shit wouldn't want to broadcast your thoughts as anti-American

'Anti-American' is an interesting accusation. It's like accusing somebody of being anti-British imperialism, anti-Nazi, anti-Apartheid, or anti-Zionism. In other words, the accuser would have to be an apologist for these evil, racist, mass-murdering regimes to feel the need to bandy about such ironic accusations in the first place.

"Anti-Americanism" has long been a pejorative, used to denigrate critics of an imperial system. But it is the opposite, "Americanism", which threatens a war on the world.

http://johnpilger.com/articles/american ... -the-world

The post above this seems suspiciously anti-American.

rowan wrote:
'Anti-American' is an interesting accusation. It's like accusing somebody of being anti-British imperialism, anti-Nazi, anti-Apartheid, or anti-Zionism. In other words, the accuser would have to be an apologist for these evil, racist, mass-murdering regimes to feel the need to bandy about such ironic accusations in the first place.

It very clearly isn't. Read those words again slowly and see if you can work out why.

Stones of granite wrote:

rowan wrote:
'Anti-American' is an interesting accusation. It's like accusing somebody of being anti-British imperialism, anti-Nazi, anti-Apartheid, or anti-Zionism. In other words, the accuser would have to be an apologist for these evil, racist, mass-murdering regimes to feel the need to bandy about such ironic accusations in the first place.

It very clearly isn't. Read those words again slowly and see if you can work out why.

It very clearly is - unless you are an apologist for British imperialism, Nazism, Apartheid, Zionism or American imperialism, of course

rowan wrote:

Stones of granite wrote:

rowan wrote:
'Anti-American' is an interesting accusation. It's like accusing somebody of being anti-British imperialism, anti-Nazi, anti-Apartheid, or anti-Zionism. In other words, the accuser would have to be an apologist for these evil, racist, mass-murdering regimes to feel the need to bandy about such ironic accusations in the first place.

It very clearly isn't. Read those words again slowly and see if you can work out why.

It very clearly is - unless you are an apologist for British imperialism, Nazism, Apartheid, Zionism or American imperialism

No, you're wrong. Read it again slowly. As a hint, see if you work out the difference between anti-something and anti-something qualifier.

Are you sure you were a journalist? Was it children's comics?

Stones of granite wrote:

rowan wrote:

Stones of granite wrote:
It very clearly isn't. Read those words again slowly and see if you can work out why.

It very clearly is - unless you are an apologist for British imperialism, Nazism, Apartheid, Zionism or American imperialism

No, you're wrong. Read it again slowly. As a hint, see if you work out the difference between anti-something and anti-something qualifier.

Are you sure you were a journalist? Was it children's comics?

Anybody can see how much this infuriates you, Stones. That is because you yourself are an apologist for the above-mentioned crimes against humanity.

rowan wrote:

Stones of granite wrote:

rowan wrote:
It very clearly is - unless you are an apologist for British imperialism, Nazism, Apartheid, Zionism or American imperialism

No, you're wrong. Read it again slowly. As a hint, see if you work out the difference between anti-something and anti-something qualifier.

Are you sure you were a journalist? Was it children's comics?

Anybody can see how much this infuriates you, Stones. That is because you yourself are an apologist for the above-mentioned crimes against humanity.

Seeing my native language butchered to make cheep political points infuriates me. Your opinions about Americans, the British, and just about anything else merely amuse me.

rowan wrote:They sure as shit wouldn't want to broadcast your thoughts as anti-American

'Anti-American' is an interesting accusation. It's like accusing somebody of being anti-British imperialism, anti-Nazi, anti-Apartheid, or anti-Zionism. In other words, the accuser would have to be an apologist for these evil, racist, mass-murdering regimes to feel the need to bandy about such ironic accusations in the first place.

"Anti-Americanism" has long been a pejorative, used to denigrate critics of an imperial system. But it is the opposite, "Americanism", which threatens a war on the world.

http://johnpilger.com/articles/american ... -the-world

Yes rowan, anyone with a different world view than yours is clearly an apologist for evil, racist, mass-murdering regimes

I've lost count of the number of times you have made that accusation to someone who disagrees with you...usually after they have shown you up or disputed one of your one-eyed posts.

I'm aware the quote is made by Pilger but you have expressed the ad hominem sentiments on countless occasions.

I could quite easily accuse you of supporting 'evil, racist, mass-murdering regimes' as you have shown support to a number of them but I won't,as it's rather boring.

As I've said before, your posts do the work for you so carry on. It's rather amusing.

WaspInWales wrote:

rowan wrote:They sure as shit wouldn't want to broadcast your thoughts as anti-American

'Anti-American' is an interesting accusation. It's like accusing somebody of being anti-British imperialism, anti-Nazi, anti-Apartheid, or anti-Zionism. In other words, the accuser would have to be an apologist for these evil, racist, mass-murdering regimes to feel the need to bandy about such ironic accusations in the first place.

"Anti-Americanism" has long been a pejorative, used to denigrate critics of an imperial system. But it is the opposite, "Americanism", which threatens a war on the world.

http://johnpilger.com/articles/american ... -the-world

Yes rowan, anyone with a different world view than yours is clearly an apologist for evil, racist, mass-murdering regimes

I've lost count of the number of times you have made that accusation to someone who disagrees with you...usually after they have shown you up or disputed one of your one-eyed posts.

I'm aware the quote is made by Pilger but you have expressed the ad hominem sentiments on countless occasions.

I could quite easily accuse you of supporting 'evil, racist, mass-murdering regimes' as you have shown support to a number of them but I won't,as it's rather boring.

As I've said before, your posts do the work for you so carry on. It's rather amusing.

What a clever approach, accuse the accuser. But you are the one who stooped to the ad hominem sentiments yourself simply because your question wasn't asnwered the way you wanted it to be. You wanted to put words into the mouths of others to ease your conscience about the terrible crimes against humanity your own country is helping commit around the world.

& in your defense of American crimes against humanity you claimed I supported similar regimes. But this is no different to an apologist for the crimes of the British Empire pointing the finger at the natives and claiming they themselves are "savages," or apologists for Apartheid and Zionism claiming their victims are "terrorists." & then you have the audacity to accuse others of insulting those who do not agree with them

No other nation than the one your are effectively defending has killed 20 million people around the world since WWII, no other country has killed 10 million Muslims since the 1990s, no other country has been busy bombing seven other nations over the past decade, no other country has carried out "over 3000 major covert operations and 10,000 minor cover operations," no other country has 900 military bases in 134 countries around the world.

& this is just the tip of the icebeg, as the following video clip - itself almost a decade old now - indicates:

rowan wrote:What a clever approach, accuse the accuser. But you are the one who stooped to the ad hominem sentiments yourself simply because your question wasn't asnwered the way you wanted it to be. You wanted to put words into the mouths of others to ease your conscience about the terrible crimes against humanity your own country is helping commit around the world.

& in your defense of American crimes against humanity you claimed I supported similar regimes. But this is no different to an apologist for the crimes of the British Empire pointing the finger at the natives and claiming they themselves are "savages," or apologists for Apartheid and Zionism claiming their victims are "terrorists." & then you have the audacity to accuse others of insulting those who do not agree with them

No other nation than the one your are effectively defending has killed 20 million people around the world since WWII, no other country has killed 10 million Muslims since the 1990s, no other country has been busy bombing seven other nations over the past decade, no other country has carried out "over 3000 major covert operations and 10,000 minor cover operations," no other country has 900 military bases in 134 countries around the world.

& this is just the tip of the icebeg, as the following video clip - itself almost a decade old now - indicates:

Priceless.

Read again, I clearly said I could accuse you of supporting 'evil, racist, mass-murdering regimes' as you have shown support to a number of them but I won't,as it's rather boring.

Also, read through the thread again as once again you are the one throwing around ad hominem comments. You started doing it after being called out for delivering your usual diatribe, which very rarely deviates from your script.

BTW, my conscience is very much clear, being from the UK doesn't mean I support UK policy or I am in some way complicit with the decisions the government takes. I've made my position clear on my opposition to many US policies and actions too. That said, I do wonder about your conscience though. What on earth drives someone to spend so much time ranting on internet boards, accusing others of supporting 'evil', 'murderous regimes' and being apologists for all manner of atrocities? Check your posts, you've pretty much thrown that accusation at just about everyone on here who has called you out for your particular brand of bullshit.

The massive irony is that reading your posts it's clear that you show unwavering support for some very questionable people with very questionable track records when it comes to human rights. I could make a connection there, but like I said it's rather boring and also as I've said, your posts do the work for me.

Couldn't help notice that you have regurgitated your go-to stats again...they're about as reliable as the rest of the crap you post. They must love you in Turkey....being the American/NATO/West loving nation that it is.

"....& in your defense of American crimes against humanity"

Put the crack down baby. You're tripping balls man.

WaspInWales wrote:

rowan wrote:What a clever approach, accuse the accuser. But you are the one who stooped to the ad hominem sentiments yourself simply because your question wasn't asnwered the way you wanted it to be. You wanted to put words into the mouths of others to ease your conscience about the terrible crimes against humanity your own country is helping commit around the world.

& in your defense of American crimes against humanity you claimed I supported similar regimes. But this is no different to an apologist for the crimes of the British Empire pointing the finger at the natives and claiming they themselves are "savages," or apologists for Apartheid and Zionism claiming their victims are "terrorists." & then you have the audacity to accuse others of insulting those who do not agree with them

No other nation than the one your are effectively defending has killed 20 million people around the world since WWII, no other country has killed 10 million Muslims since the 1990s, no other country has been busy bombing seven other nations over the past decade, no other country has carried out "over 3000 major covert operations and 10,000 minor cover operations," no other country has 900 military bases in 134 countries around the world.

& this is just the tip of the icebeg, as the following video clip - itself almost a decade old now - indicates:

Priceless.

Read again, I clearly said I could accuse you of supporting 'evil, racist, mass-murdering regimes' as you have shown support to a number of them but I won't,as it's rather boring.

Also, read through the thread again as once again you are the one throwing around ad hominem comments. You started doing it after being called out for delivering your usual diatribe, which very rarely deviates from your script.

BTW, my conscience is very much clear, being from the UK doesn't mean I support UK policy or I am in some way complicit with the decisions the government takes. I've made my position clear on my opposition to many US policies and actions too. That said, I do wonder about your conscience though. What on earth drives someone to spend so much time ranting on internet boards, accusing others of supporting 'evil', 'murderous regimes' and being apologists for all manner of atrocities? Check your posts, you've pretty much thrown that accusation at just about everyone on here who has called you out for your particular brand of bullshit.

The massive irony is that reading your posts it's clear that you show unwavering support for some very questionable people with very questionable track records when it comes to human rights. I could make a connection there, but like I said it's rather boring and also as I've said, your posts do the work for me.

Couldn't help notice that you have regurgitated your go-to stats again...they're about as reliable as the rest of the crap you post. They must love you in Turkey....being the American/NATO/West loving nation that it is.

So in one paragraph you've stated you "could accuse me of this & that" but "won't" (a tactic lacking in valor, to say the least), and in the next you go right ahead and accuse me of what you just said you "could accuse me of" but wouldn't.

If you bother to count it up you will find that I have accused a very small per centage of people on this forum of supporting evil, murderous regimes. The only ones I have accused of doing this are those who adopted a hostile stance in defence of evil, murderous regimes - such as yourself. Amazing that you should try to deny it (a tactic lacking in valor, to say the least), when it is there and plain to see. That's what this discussion is all about, after all - your outrage that I did not give you the required answer on anti-American propaganda, and thereby failed to ease your conscience over the countless crimes against humanity America has committed all around the world, invariably with Britain's unquestioning support.

& pointing the finger at others is merely an attempt to divert attention from the greater issue at hand (a tactic lacking in valor, to say the least). A century ago people like you were defending the crimes of the British Empire by claiming the native peoples were all savages. It's the same thing. The US and Britain haven't changed at all; that's there and plain to see.

Yes, we know that Pulitzer Prize-winning journalists and and even former high ranking US military officers themselves hold no currency with the war crime apologists aboard when they expose the true horrors of American imperialism. I'm sure you won't lose any sleep over it anyway.

rowan wrote:So in one paragraph you've stated you "could accuse me of this & that" but "won't" (a tactic lacking in valor, to say the least), and in the next you go right ahead and accuse me of what you just said you "could accuse me of" but wouldn't.

If you bother to count it up you will find that I have accused a very small per centage of people on this forum of supporting evil, murderous regimes. The only ones I have accused of doing this are those who adopted a hostile stance in defence of evil, murderous regimes - such as yourself. Amazing that you should try to deny it (a tactic lacking in valor, to say the least), when it is there and plain to see. That's what this discussion is all about, after all - your outrage that I did not give you the required answer on anti-American propaganda, and thereby failed to ease your conscience over the countless crimes against humanity America has committed all around the world, invariably with Britain's unquestioning support.

& pointing the finger at others is merely an attempt to divert attention from the greater issue at hand (a tactic lacking in valor, to say the least). A century ago people like you were defending the crimes of the British Empire by claiming the native peoples were all savages. It's the same thing. The US and Britain haven't changed at all; that's there and plain to see.

Yes, we know that Pulitzer Prize-winning journalists and and even former high ranking US military officers themselves hold no currency with the war crime apologists aboard when they expose the true horrors of American imperialism. I'm sure you won't lose any sleep over it anyway.

Like I said, I could accuse you of quite a few things, but I don't need to as you're doing such a fine job yourself.

You admit that you have thrown such accusations at others, but your complete lack of self-awareness and honesty results in your then lying about just how often you do it.

You then back that up by making a comment about pointing the finger at others. That is all you do. Point fingers and cast aspersions on others. You then follow that up by making up crap about what they think and feel, even if they have never shown any support to whatever you accuse them of.

You are too funny to take seriously, but fuck you are incredibly boring. Wah, wah evil, murderer, boo hoo pulitzer, 20 million, imperialist, empire, whine fucking whine, rant, ad nauseam

Can't wait for your next witless retort accusing me of all manners of horrors...but you're right, I won't be losing sleep over it

WaspInWales wrote:

rowan wrote:So in one paragraph you've stated you "could accuse me of this & that" but "won't" (a tactic lacking in valor, to say the least), and in the next you go right ahead and accuse me of what you just said you "could accuse me of" but wouldn't.

If you bother to count it up you will find that I have accused a very small per centage of people on this forum of supporting evil, murderous regimes. The only ones I have accused of doing this are those who adopted a hostile stance in defence of evil, murderous regimes - such as yourself. Amazing that you should try to deny it (a tactic lacking in valor, to say the least), when it is there and plain to see. That's what this discussion is all about, after all - your outrage that I did not give you the required answer on anti-American propaganda, and thereby failed to ease your conscience over the countless crimes against humanity America has committed all around the world, invariably with Britain's unquestioning support.

& pointing the finger at others is merely an attempt to divert attention from the greater issue at hand (a tactic lacking in valor, to say the least). A century ago people like you were defending the crimes of the British Empire by claiming the native peoples were all savages. It's the same thing. The US and Britain haven't changed at all; that's there and plain to see.

Yes, we know that Pulitzer Prize-winning journalists and and even former high ranking US military officers themselves hold no currency with the war crime apologists aboard when they expose the true horrors of American imperialism. I'm sure you won't lose any sleep over it anyway.

Like I said, I could accuse you of quite a few things, but I don't need to as you're doing such a fine job yourself.

You admit that you have thrown such accusations at others, but your complete lack of self-awareness and honesty results in your then lying about just how often you do it.

You then back that up by making a comment about pointing the finger at others. That is all you do. Point fingers and cast aspersions on others. You then follow that up by making up crap about what they think and feel, even if they have never shown any support to whatever you accuse them of.

You are too funny to take seriously, but fuck you are incredibly boring. Wah, wah evil, murderer, boo hoo pulitzer, 20 million, imperialist, empire, whine fucking whine, rant, ad nauseam

Can't wait for your next witless retort accusing me of all manners of horrors...but you're right, I won't be losing sleep over it

I could accuse you of a great deal more than I have too - but I won't.

Throwing around accusations, lack of self-awareness and honesty, lying - this is all about you, which is because you are only capable of perceiving in others distorted reflections of yourself.

" you are incredibly boring. Wah, wah evil, murderer, boo hoo pulitzer, 20 million, imperialist, empire "

Yes, we already know the deaths of 20 million human beings is boring for you, and that you think it's absurd for anyone to bring this up on a discussion about international politics - and the US in particular. We can see that you also find it somewhat amusing, and have no regard for the views of Pultizer Prize-winning writers who have risked life and limb to go to these war zones and actually report the truth about them. This tells us all we need to know about the nature of your character.

rowan wrote:I could accuse you of a great deal more than I have too - but I won't.

Throwing around accusations, lack of self-awareness and honesty, lying - this is all about you, which is because you are only capable of perceiving in others distorted reflections of yourself.

" you are incredibly boring. Wah, wah evil, murderer, boo hoo pulitzer, 20 million, imperialist, empire "

Yes, we already know the deaths of 20 million human beings is boring for you, and that you think it's absurd for anyone to bring this up on a discussion about international politics - and the US in particular. We can see that you also find it somewhat amusing, and have no regard for the views of Pultizer Prize-winning writers who have risked life and limb to go to these war zones and actually report the truth about them. This tells us all we need to know about the nature of your character.

There is no great deal more to you though. It's the same crap over and over again, it just gets regurgitated and aimed at someone else.

You do realise that every time you use the same attack, it loses a little more of its bite and usefulness. Right now, you're toothless and about as useful as a chocolate teapot as you've used it so much.

Pace yourself.

Rowan.....sweet baby jesus are you digging the wrong hole.

morepork wrote:Rowan.....sweet baby jesus are you digging the wrong hole.

So you've got to team up now because I've just taken Wasps apart and exposed his hypocrisy and lack of moral integrity time and again. Pathetic. Anyone can see through you.

WaspInWales wrote:

rowan wrote:They sure as shit wouldn't want to broadcast your thoughts as anti-American

'Anti-American' is an interesting accusation. It's like accusing somebody of being anti-British imperialism, anti-Nazi, anti-Apartheid, or anti-Zionism. In other words, the accuser would have to be an apologist for these evil, racist, mass-murdering regimes to feel the need to bandy about such ironic accusations in the first place.

"Anti-Americanism" has long been a pejorative, used to denigrate critics of an imperial system. But it is the opposite, "Americanism", which threatens a war on the world.

http://johnpilger.com/articles/american ... -the-world

Yes rowan, anyone with a different world view than yours is clearly an apologist for evil, racist, mass-murdering regimes

I've lost count of the number of times you have made that accusation to someone who disagrees with you...usually after they have shown you up or disputed one of your one-eyed posts.

I'm aware the quote is made by Pilger but you have expressed the ad hominem sentiments on countless occasions.

I could quite easily accuse you of supporting 'evil, racist, mass-murdering regimes' as you have shown support to a number of them but I won't,as it's rather boring.

As I've said before, your posts do the work for you so carry on. It's rather amusing.

Never forget, Rowan facilitates discussion, he doesn't make points to "win arguments" as that's too childish for him.