RugbyRebels

Wales: Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets); Josh Adams (Worcester), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets), Steff Evans (Scarlets); Rhys Patchell (Scarlets), Gareth Davies (Scarlets); Rob Evans (Scarlets), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Cory Hill (Dragons), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys capt), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), Josh Navidi (Cardiff Blues), Ross Moriarty (Gloucester).

Replacements: Elliot Dee (Dragons), Wyn Jones (Scarlets), Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Bradley Davies (Ospreys), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Aled Davies (Scarlets), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), Owen Watkin (Ospreys).

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:Wales: Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets); Josh Adams (Worcester), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets), Steff Evans (Scarlets); Rhys Patchell (Scarlets), Gareth Davies (Scarlets); Rob Evans (Scarlets), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Cory Hill (Dragons), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys capt), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), Josh Navidi (Cardiff Blues), Ross Moriarty (Gloucester).

Replacements: Elliot Dee (Dragons), Wyn Jones (Scarlets), Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Bradley Davies (Ospreys), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Aled Davies (Scarlets), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), Owen Watkin (Ospreys).

Not enough Scarlets in that backline.

Well, to be fair and considering injury, that’s largely a form based team. The Scarlets contingent is fair enough given recent results whilst other players like Navidi have been in good form and of course he in particular played well in the AIs.

I’m expecting a torrid campaign this year but let’s see how some of the new faces get on.

Im about as happy as can be expected with the current injuries

I do think hes picked on form with the exception of Cubby - but Navidi played well in AIs and on balance deserves his spot.

#8 really had nowhere to go with Navidi at 7.

Its going to be an exciting game..whether or not thats winning and exciting Im dubious....but exciting nonetheless

If we get 50 mins from Moriaty - a Shingle, Navidi, Tipuric back row will be speedy if nothing else for the last 30....Davies on for Hill in the last 20 will add some oomph too.

Strange to see that Amos isn't involved (despite Gatland saying he was available for selection), you'd of thought he could provide better cover from the bench than Watkin, I suppose Halfpenny would be moved to wing in the event of any injuries and Anscombe would play 10 or 15.

It's good to see Elliot Dee rewarded for his performances, I prefer him to Dacey, also Moriarty is a big plus for us, his ball carrying is invaluable.

Well it's a very gutsy selection and surprised me that a few selections I hoped for came to pass .I would have been concerned with a lot of fresh faces bit with 6 out of 7 playing most weeks together it should allow them an insight into each others playing styles.

I too was surprised by Amos not being in the brew but lack of match time could be a good reason.
That said the selection will provide the attack coach ?...to give the lads free rein to attack and move the ball wide quickly and honestly a quick message to wellies would not go amiss It should give the Scottish defence coaches and interesting headache not knowing what is coming their way.

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:Wales: Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets); Josh Adams (Worcester), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets), Steff Evans (Scarlets); Rhys Patchell (Scarlets), Gareth Davies (Scarlets); Rob Evans (Scarlets), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Cory Hill (Dragons), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys capt), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), Josh Navidi (Cardiff Blues), Ross Moriarty (Gloucester).

Replacements: Elliot Dee (Dragons), Wyn Jones (Scarlets), Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Bradley Davies (Ospreys), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Aled Davies (Scarlets), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), Owen Watkin (Ospreys).

Tipuric has been the best 7 in the UK, if not Europe, for a few seasons now (even if Gatland has preferred Warburton). If he is fit enough to sit on the bench, then he's fit enough to start. He's streets ahead of Navidi as an international flanker.

Spiffy wrote:

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:Wales: Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets); Josh Adams (Worcester), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets), Steff Evans (Scarlets); Rhys Patchell (Scarlets), Gareth Davies (Scarlets); Rob Evans (Scarlets), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Cory Hill (Dragons), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys capt), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), Josh Navidi (Cardiff Blues), Ross Moriarty (Gloucester).

Replacements: Elliot Dee (Dragons), Wyn Jones (Scarlets), Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Bradley Davies (Ospreys), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Aled Davies (Scarlets), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), Owen Watkin (Ospreys).

Tipuric has been the best 7 in the UK, if not Europe, for a few seasons now (even if Gatland has preferred Warburton). If he is fit enough to sit on the bench, then he's fit enough to start. He's streets ahead of Navidi as an international flanker.

Gatland appears to have gone for big carriers. We'll see how it works out but it's chalk and cheese compared to a potential backrow of Barclay, Watson and Wilson.

Agreed that Navidi is probably on there to get us over the gain line. I also think Gatland like to let players who have played well keep the shirt when injured players return, and Navidi was good in the AIs.

Any word on whether you'll shut the roof? I'd imagine we will be pushing for it as there seems to some rain about but that probably means Gatland wont like it

Cameo wrote:Any word on whether you'll shut the roof? I'd imagine we will be pushing for it as there seems to some rain about but that probably means Gatland wont like it

The decision lies with Scotland I believe.

Edinburgh in Exile wrote:

Some interesting match-ups in there.

Spiffy wrote:

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:Wales: Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets); Josh Adams (Worcester), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets), Steff Evans (Scarlets); Rhys Patchell (Scarlets), Gareth Davies (Scarlets); Rob Evans (Scarlets), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Cory Hill (Dragons), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys capt), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), Josh Navidi (Cardiff Blues), Ross Moriarty (Gloucester).

Replacements: Elliot Dee (Dragons), Wyn Jones (Scarlets), Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Bradley Davies (Ospreys), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Aled Davies (Scarlets), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), Owen Watkin (Ospreys).

Tipuric has been the best 7 in the UK, if not Europe, for a few seasons now (even if Gatland has preferred Warburton). If he is fit enough to sit on the bench, then he's fit enough to start. He's streets ahead of Navidi as an international flanker.

I agree with you. Unfortunately, Gatland has never had a particularly high opinion of Tipuric.

The end of Gatland's reign can't come soon enough for me.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Spiffy wrote:

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:Wales: Leigh Halfpenny (Scarlets); Josh Adams (Worcester), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets), Steff Evans (Scarlets); Rhys Patchell (Scarlets), Gareth Davies (Scarlets); Rob Evans (Scarlets), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Cory Hill (Dragons), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys capt), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), Josh Navidi (Cardiff Blues), Ross Moriarty (Gloucester).

Replacements: Elliot Dee (Dragons), Wyn Jones (Scarlets), Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Bradley Davies (Ospreys), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Aled Davies (Scarlets), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), Owen Watkin (Ospreys).

Tipuric has been the best 7 in the UK, if not Europe, for a few seasons now (even if Gatland has preferred Warburton). If he is fit enough to sit on the bench, then he's fit enough to start. He's streets ahead of Navidi as an international flanker.

I agree with you. Unfortunately, Gatland has never had a particularly high opinion of Tipuric.

The end of Gatland's reign can't come soon enough for me.

Yeah, that's why he picked him for the Lions tour...

I like Tipuric but he's by no means the best openside in the NH, James Davies, Barclay, Watson, Warburton, O'Brien are all better imo, what he adds in mobility he lacks in oomph, that's why he is rarely picked against big teams like SA.

How many turnovers do you see him win per game? Not many, he is too easy to clear out due to his body shape. It's difficult not to like a player with so much skill but do you really need someone with the skills of a back when that's not their primary role within the team. I think having him as impact from the bench is a good idea personally.

I am not that keen to see the back of the best Wales coach of the professional era.

Sandydragon wrote:Well, to be fair and considering injury, that’s largely a form based team. The Scarlets contingent is fair enough given recent results whilst other players like Navidi have been in good form and of course he in particular played well in the AIs.

I’m expecting a torrid campaign this year but let’s see how some of the new faces get on.

Our only hope is for this team to ignore Gatland's coaching and to play like the Scarlets.

I make no bones about it , I dont like Gatland, i thought he was fantastic when he came in but he stinks to me of someone with a fixed mindset who surrounds himself with yes men.

The only reason he is changing tact is because he thinks his job is on the line and he wants his pay off, its like he has had to of been dragged kicking and screaming to the promised land of moving the ball away from contact.

I think he should of moved to Toulon a few years ago where his style would have suited the mentality there.

My final point is, if a coach gets to the point where only after an entire team is out injured to change style then its not the players that need changing it is him. With this new style i see no reason to stick with the current coaching team, get rid of them and either get in Pivac and co or someone to start the building process now so the world cup after next is challengable because every chance he gets he will drag that team back to phase 1 rugby

whatisthejava wrote:I make no bones about it , I dont like Gatland, i thought he was fantastic when he came in but he stinks to me of someone with a fixed mindset who surrounds himself with yes men.

The only reason he is changing tact is because he thinks his job is on the line and he wants his pay off, its like he has had to of been dragged kicking and screaming to the promised land of moving the ball away from contact.

I think he should of moved to Toulon a few years ago where his style would have suited the mentality there.

My final point is, if a coach gets to the point where only after an entire team is out injured to change style then its not the players that need changing it is him. With this new style i see no reason to stick with the current coaching team, get rid of them and either get in Pivac and co or someone to start the building process now so the world cup after next is challengable because every chance he gets he will drag that team back to phase 1 rugby

Can you name a Welsh coach that you have been happy with?

Numbers wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Spiffy wrote:
Tipuric has been the best 7 in the UK, if not Europe, for a few seasons now (even if Gatland has preferred Warburton). If he is fit enough to sit on the bench, then he's fit enough to start. He's streets ahead of Navidi as an international flanker.

I agree with you. Unfortunately, Gatland has never had a particularly high opinion of Tipuric.

The end of Gatland's reign can't come soon enough for me.

Yeah, that's why he picked him for the Lions tour...

I like Tipuric but he's by no means the best openside in the NH, James Davies, Barclay, Watson, Warburton, O'Brien are all better imo, what he adds in mobility he lacks in oomph, that's why he is rarely picked against big teams like SA.

How many turnovers do you see him win per game? Not many, he is too easy to clear out due to his body shape. It's difficult not to like a player with so much skill but do you really need someone with the skills of a back when that's not their primary role within the team. I think having him as impact from the bench is a good idea personally.

I am not that keen to see the back of the best Wales coach of the professional era.

He picked him for the midweek Lions matches.

Sure, opinions will vary about where Tipuric fits in. For me, having that skillset makes him a pretty special player.

Gatland is certainly the most successful Wales coach of the professional era, but we've stagnated for the last five years.

Numbers wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:I make no bones about it , I dont like Gatland, i thought he was fantastic when he came in but he stinks to me of someone with a fixed mindset who surrounds himself with yes men.

The only reason he is changing tact is because he thinks his job is on the line and he wants his pay off, its like he has had to of been dragged kicking and screaming to the promised land of moving the ball away from contact.

I think he should of moved to Toulon a few years ago where his style would have suited the mentality there.

My final point is, if a coach gets to the point where only after an entire team is out injured to change style then its not the players that need changing it is him. With this new style i see no reason to stick with the current coaching team, get rid of them and either get in Pivac and co or someone to start the building process now so the world cup after next is challengable because every chance he gets he will drag that team back to phase 1 rugby

Can you name a Welsh coach that you have been happy with?

I really liked Ruddock

I think in the last few years reading about growth mindset its pretty clear that coaches that move and change are the best and i dont think Gatland has done that andit will be interesting to see how the players adjust to this new and improved Gatland, my gut feeling is the quicker Wales move on from Gatland the better, the reason that Eddie Jones is where he is is because he has been a merc, he has jumped about made decent changes in a short period of time and then left so he never gets to the point where players stop listening to him



while i think Gatland deserves

whatisthejava wrote:

Numbers wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:I make no bones about it , I dont like Gatland, i thought he was fantastic when he came in but he stinks to me of someone with a fixed mindset who surrounds himself with yes men.

The only reason he is changing tact is because he thinks his job is on the line and he wants his pay off, its like he has had to of been dragged kicking and screaming to the promised land of moving the ball away from contact.

I think he should of moved to Toulon a few years ago where his style would have suited the mentality there.

My final point is, if a coach gets to the point where only after an entire team is out injured to change style then its not the players that need changing it is him. With this new style i see no reason to stick with the current coaching team, get rid of them and either get in Pivac and co or someone to start the building process now so the world cup after next is challengable because every chance he gets he will drag that team back to phase 1 rugby

Can you name a Welsh coach that you have been happy with?

I really liked Ruddock

I think in the last few years reading about growth mindset its pretty clear that coaches that move and change are the best and i dont think Gatland has done that andit will be interesting to see how the players adjust to this new and improved Gatland, my gut feeling is the quicker Wales move on from Gatland the better, the reason that Eddie Jones is where he is is because he has been a merc, he has jumped about made decent changes in a short period of time and then left so he never gets to the point where players stop listening to him



while i think Gatland deserves

I thought that'd be your answer.

Let me ask you this, how have the All Blacks altered their game in the last 10 years?

Numbers wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:

Numbers wrote:
Can you name a Welsh coach that you have been happy with?

I really liked Ruddock

I think in the last few years reading about growth mindset its pretty clear that coaches that move and change are the best and i dont think Gatland has done that andit will be interesting to see how the players adjust to this new and improved Gatland, my gut feeling is the quicker Wales move on from Gatland the better, the reason that Eddie Jones is where he is is because he has been a merc, he has jumped about made decent changes in a short period of time and then left so he never gets to the point where players stop listening to him



while i think Gatland deserves

I thought that'd be your answer.

Let me ask you this, how have the All Blacks altered their game in the last 10 years?

The ABs generally acknowledge shortcomings in specific areas and address them quickly. That is usually down to the coaching. If the scrum or line out is struggling, it gets fixed up pretty quick. You also seldom see them paint by numbers, particularly with respect to the kicking game. For how many years have you seen Wales robotically kick possession back to the opposition? That's Gatland.

morepork wrote:

Numbers wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:
I really liked Ruddock

I think in the last few years reading about growth mindset its pretty clear that coaches that move and change are the best and i dont think Gatland has done that andit will be interesting to see how the players adjust to this new and improved Gatland, my gut feeling is the quicker Wales move on from Gatland the better, the reason that Eddie Jones is where he is is because he has been a merc, he has jumped about made decent changes in a short period of time and then left so he never gets to the point where players stop listening to him



while i think Gatland deserves

I thought that'd be your answer.

Let me ask you this, how have the All Blacks altered their game in the last 10 years?

The ABs generally acknowledge shortcomings in specific areas and address them quickly. That is usually down to the coaching. If the scrum or line out is struggling, it gets fixed up pretty quick. You also seldom see them paint by numbers, particularly with respect to the kicking game. For how many years have you seen Wales robotically kick possession back to the opposition? That's Gatland.

It also depends what one considers a change. NZ have for instance changed how the spread their forwards around the pitch, but they do still spread them. Then there are changes that come from the way teams kicked and chased, back in '08 an '09 there was still much more ping pong than NZ might engage in now, they still want normally to kick from deep, but they're less concerned about having an attacking breakdown in their half, is that a NZ change or a rugby change? How restarts are kicked is more than a little changed. Where the 10 stands is probably different, these days much more likely to be screened, back then much more likely to be stood further up taking the ball with forwards behind them. The defence is much faster coming up in the line, whereas going back a decade NZ employed much more drift than they do now, and there's much less lying on the wrong side though that might just be losing McCaw. That's not even scratching the surface as the changes will be myriad, whilst one can also likely cite the core principles have remained more constant than maybe anyone else's

morepork wrote:

Numbers wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:
I really liked Ruddock

I think in the last few years reading about growth mindset its pretty clear that coaches that move and change are the best and i dont think Gatland has done that andit will be interesting to see how the players adjust to this new and improved Gatland, my gut feeling is the quicker Wales move on from Gatland the better, the reason that Eddie Jones is where he is is because he has been a merc, he has jumped about made decent changes in a short period of time and then left so he never gets to the point where players stop listening to him



while i think Gatland deserves

I thought that'd be your answer.

Let me ask you this, how have the All Blacks altered their game in the last 10 years?

The ABs generally acknowledge shortcomings in specific areas and address them quickly. That is usually down to the coaching. If the scrum or line out is struggling, it gets fixed up pretty quick. You also seldom see them paint by numbers, particularly with respect to the kicking game. For how many years have you seen Wales robotically kick possession back to the opposition? That's Gatland.

The coaching of the scrum and lineout is not an alteration to their game.

The gameplan employed by NZ now is very similar to the one they have always had, a large measure of the success they enjoy is due to the speed of possession through phase play and by having players who are better than other nations due to a very good structured schools system. I suppose what I am getting at here is not all teams are evolving a new gameplan or indeed need to evolve a new gameplan in order to be successful, look at England, they've played pretty much the same gameplan for 20 odd years and it works for them as it plays to their natural strengths, SA ditto and Aus.

To put it simply if Wales were playing the same style they were during the 2011 WC then I would be happy.

Oh and he did of course coach a scratch side to a test series draw with NZ.

Fair enough (although the relative emphasis of each in specific games is). I think what I am trying to say is that the ABs tailor a game plan to the opposition. Trench warfare against the Boks in a world cup semi followed by stretching the defence with width in the final (and quarter final too). Gatland did "coach" a team consisting of the cream of four countries with a combined senior player base of >180 000 to a series draw against the No.1 team in the world. If I were Welsh however, I'd be pretty dark at coming up short at the same fixtures year after year.

I'd meant to mention that. It's really quite recent (under Hansen) that NZ have paid attention to the opposition, even under Henry it was the norm to focus on their processes and delivery