RugbyRebels

fivepointer wrote:No surprise with the Wiggy call up. Going for the experienced hand is understandable, but does his current form justify his selection?
From what i've seen his form is only so-so with Spencer looking sharper when he's been playing.
Very disappointing really that we've had to take a backward step in selection.

Stom wrote:

Digby wrote:What we don't know about Simmonds and playing 7 is how good he is over the ball not getting counter rucked, and that's the main thing for Eddie when picking a 7. England consistently put just the 1 man in to secure our own ball so we can have our attack with lots of width, and that's a big ask for a smaller backrower to protect that crucial phase 2 ball. It's one of the main areas that's been held against Kvesic, and looking at Kvesic he certainly appears to weigh more than Simmonds, and whilst Simmonds has great acceleration that isn't the most useful when you're stationary over the ball simply trying not to get knocked back.

Still, Hartley didn't survive a one man clearout and injured Youngs in the process the bag of lard, so maybe Eddie will let players off now for not being strong over the ball, or maybe not. Had Youngs not gotten injured I tend to think there would have been more commentary on Hartley getting cleared out so easily and putting the England attack on the back foot, the injury seemed to rather hide his ineptitude

I feel like a strong lower body and low centre of gravity are big positives for ruck work. And Simmonds has that for sure. It would require a different balance, though, but that's good, if we have options.

Banquo wrote:

fivepointer wrote:No surprise with the Wiggy call up. Going for the experienced hand is understandable, but does his current form justify his selection?
From what i've seen his form is only so-so with Spencer looking sharper when he's been playing.
Very disappointing really that we've had to take a backward step in selection.

Uttterly self inflicted wound, not disappointing, annoying and dull.

Digby wrote:

Stom wrote:

Digby wrote:What we don't know about Simmonds and playing 7 is how good he is over the ball not getting counter rucked, and that's the main thing for Eddie when picking a 7. England consistently put just the 1 man in to secure our own ball so we can have our attack with lots of width, and that's a big ask for a smaller backrower to protect that crucial phase 2 ball. It's one of the main areas that's been held against Kvesic, and looking at Kvesic he certainly appears to weigh more than Simmonds, and whilst Simmonds has great acceleration that isn't the most useful when you're stationary over the ball simply trying not to get knocked back.

Still, Hartley didn't survive a one man clearout and injured Youngs in the process the bag of lard, so maybe Eddie will let players off now for not being strong over the ball, or maybe not. Had Youngs not gotten injured I tend to think there would have been more commentary on Hartley getting cleared out so easily and putting the England attack on the back foot, the injury seemed to rather hide his ineptitude

I feel like a strong lower body and low centre of gravity are big positives for ruck work. And Simmonds has that for sure. It would require a different balance, though, but that's good, if we have options.

I assume Hartley has those things, and he got cleared out easily enough. And Simmonds can likely do it, but the more that's his role, and the more he gets clattered doing that the less he'll have a chance to carry which is what people like about him to begin with

Raggs wrote:High tackle count, good pace, good link man... sounds like a 7 to me (shame about the over opposition ball stuff, but England don't bother with that in general for the most part).

Digby wrote:

Stom wrote:

Digby wrote:What we don't know about Simmonds and playing 7 is how good he is over the ball not getting counter rucked, and that's the main thing for Eddie when picking a 7. England consistently put just the 1 man in to secure our own ball so we can have our attack with lots of width, and that's a big ask for a smaller backrower to protect that crucial phase 2 ball. It's one of the main areas that's been held against Kvesic, and looking at Kvesic he certainly appears to weigh more than Simmonds, and whilst Simmonds has great acceleration that isn't the most useful when you're stationary over the ball simply trying not to get knocked back.

Still, Hartley didn't survive a one man clearout and injured Youngs in the process the bag of lard, so maybe Eddie will let players off now for not being strong over the ball, or maybe not. Had Youngs not gotten injured I tend to think there would have been more commentary on Hartley getting cleared out so easily and putting the England attack on the back foot, the injury seemed to rather hide his ineptitude

I feel like a strong lower body and low centre of gravity are big positives for ruck work. And Simmonds has that for sure. It would require a different balance, though, but that's good, if we have options.

I assume Hartley has those things, and he got cleared out easily enough. And Simmonds can likely do it, but the more that's his role, and the more he gets clattered doing that the less he'll have a chance to carry which is what people like about him to begin with

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:

Stom wrote:
I feel like a strong lower body and low centre of gravity are big positives for ruck work. And Simmonds has that for sure. It would require a different balance, though, but that's good, if we have options.

I assume Hartley has those things, and he got cleared out easily enough. And Simmonds can likely do it, but the more that's his role, and the more he gets clattered doing that the less he'll have a chance to carry which is what people like about him to begin with

If it helps, he's been notably good for the Chiefs over the ball in defence. Personally, his carries were what caught the eye, but I'm sure in your 34 minutes of viewing you'd have noticed his work rate, tackling, and indeed clearing out?

Digby wrote:Hartley was fine in the lineout, but neither England nor Italy put much pressure on the other's lineout. George's underthrow was the only lineout loss for us, though I wouldn't say lineout is an issue for George, not as one reasonably could with LCD

p/d wrote:

Digby wrote:Hartley was fine in the lineout, but neither England nor Italy put much pressure on the other's lineout. George's underthrow was the only lineout loss for us, though I wouldn't say lineout is an issue for George, not as one reasonably could with LCD

George has the best return in the prem for line out success, so not a weakness in that department.

Give LCD targets like Itoje, Kruis, Lawes or Launch and I'm sure his throwing wouldn't be an issue. Down in Exeter he is mainly limited to the peroxide blonde. Plus he is dynamite over the ball,

Mikey Brown wrote:Hartley’s play has actually reached the point that I find him genuinely entertaining to watch as he meanders around with his socks down and his shirt untucked and occasionally flops on the floor, whether that be him trying to make a tackle, clearout a ruck or just have a little rest.

That shot of him (in a recent article about his fantastic leadership) at the centre of the England huddle, barking orders to his troops from the comfort of that dressing gown thing they wear after leaving the field was very apt I thought.

Scrumhead wrote:Eh? Billy and Hughes both do it.

Perhaps it’s seen as more or a risk with Simmonds.

Digby wrote:

Stom wrote:

Digby wrote:What we don't know about Simmonds and playing 7 is how good he is over the ball not getting counter rucked, and that's the main thing for Eddie when picking a 7. England consistently put just the 1 man in to secure our own ball so we can have our attack with lots of width, and that's a big ask for a smaller backrower to protect that crucial phase 2 ball. It's one of the main areas that's been held against Kvesic, and looking at Kvesic he certainly appears to weigh more than Simmonds, and whilst Simmonds has great acceleration that isn't the most useful when you're stationary over the ball simply trying not to get knocked back.

Still, Hartley didn't survive a one man clearout and injured Youngs in the process the bag of lard, so maybe Eddie will let players off now for not being strong over the ball, or maybe not. Had Youngs not gotten injured I tend to think there would have been more commentary on Hartley getting cleared out so easily and putting the England attack on the back foot, the injury seemed to rather hide his ineptitude

I feel like a strong lower body and low centre of gravity are big positives for ruck work. And Simmonds has that for sure. It would require a different balance, though, but that's good, if we have options.

I assume Hartley has those things, and he got cleared out easily enough. And Simmonds can likely do it, but the more that's his role, and the more he gets clattered doing that the less he'll have a chance to carry which is what people like about him to begin with

Spiffy wrote:

Digby wrote:

Stom wrote:
I feel like a strong lower body and low centre of gravity are big positives for ruck work. And Simmonds has that for sure. It would require a different balance, though, but that's good, if we have options.

I assume Hartley has those things, and he got cleared out easily enough. And Simmonds can likely do it, but the more that's his role, and the more he gets clattered doing that the less he'll have a chance to carry which is what people like about him to begin with

Simmonds seems able to do most things well. Hard to find a chink in his game. Jones can use him in many different roles. If he keeps up current form he will be an automatic England regular. Great to see a backrower with real explosive pace, never mind the other attributes.

Stom wrote:

Spiffy wrote:

Digby wrote:
I assume Hartley has those things, and he got cleared out easily enough. And Simmonds can likely do it, but the more that's his role, and the more he gets clattered doing that the less he'll have a chance to carry which is what people like about him to begin with

Simmonds seems able to do most things well. Hard to find a chink in his game. Jones can use him in many different roles. If he keeps up current form he will be an automatic England regular. Great to see a backrower with real explosive pace, never mind the other attributes.

Now you see, that's a bit overboard. His tight carrying isn't amazing yet, while he's undertested over the ball. He has potential...