RugbyRebels

Stom wrote:

p/d wrote:

Stom wrote:
Sure. But we also need to look at alternatives. So 3-4 changes is necessary. But limit them slightly. I'd bring in a lock, probably Lawes, for Itoje, Ford for Farrell and Mercer for Shields.

You don't want to disrupt more than that. And then I'd do the same for Aus. Out go Lawes, Te'o and Slade and in come Itoje, Farrell and Tuilagi.

So you would revert back to the Ford/Farrell axis for Aus?

Absolutely. If that's what it takes to get Ford on the pitch under Jones, I have to live with it. We need to be better in attack.

Lol. A few weeks back I was saying (and I think a few others were) that I’ll accept some limited performances in that area in order to get some balance (10. Farrell 12. Te’o) and it hasn’t taken me long to question that thinking.

On paper it looks like it could be good. But we really need to see Farrel take charge of a game in a meaningful attacking sense, rather than just being loud.

For me it’s a tie between Ford/Joseph/Daly as our best back and we’re somehow failing to use any of them very well at the moment.

Mikey Brown wrote:

Stom wrote:

p/d wrote:
So you would revert back to the Ford/Farrell axis for Aus?

Absolutely. If that's what it takes to get Ford on the pitch under Jones, I have to live with it. We need to be better in attack.

Lol. A few weeks back I was saying (and I think a few others were) that I’ll accept some limited performances in that area in order to get some balance (10. Farrell 12. Te’o) and it hasn’t taken me long to question that thinking.

On paper it looks like it could be good. But we really need to see Farrel take charge of a game in a meaningful attacking sense, rather than just being loud.

For me it’s a tie between Ford/Joseph/Daly as our best back and we’re somehow failing to use any of them very well at the moment.

Probably a reason for that...

I heard it's something similar to one of Ireland's best ever actors. You know, the one with the face everyone wants to punch. Or maybe I'm Addicted to something...better ask Jane.

Or perhaps, and I may become a little obtuse here...it could be OWEN FUCKING FARRELL!

Stom wrote:

p/d wrote:

Stom wrote:
Sure. But we also need to look at alternatives. So 3-4 changes is necessary. But limit them slightly. I'd bring in a lock, probably Lawes, for Itoje, Ford for Farrell and Mercer for Shields.

You don't want to disrupt more than that. And then I'd do the same for Aus. Out go Lawes, Te'o and Slade and in come Itoje, Farrell and Tuilagi.

So you would revert back to the Ford/Farrell axis for Aus?

Absolutely. If that's what it takes to get Ford on the pitch under Jones, I have to live with it. We need to be better in attack.

Agreed. And Ford/Farrell is often denigrated, but it does work well in getting the ball to the edges and setting our back three loose. Give all the decision-making to Ford, put Fazlet on the pull-back and say, "If you get given the ball, wang it wide," so he doesn't have to make any choices.

It doesn't work wih Slade, but that's going to have to be an acceptable casualty as Fazlet and Slade is clearly not working. I'd have Ford-Farrell-Marchant for Japan and, if they look slick, keep it for Australia.

Puja

If it works with Marchant then great, but the issue previously was having no threat immediately outside Ford, then latterly having Slade try and crash it up because Farrell just stands out the back for the pass behind.

I’d love for Marchant to get a chance and do well vs Japan.

Squad for Japan game
Forwards
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs), Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors) *, Maro Itoje (Saracens), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby), Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs), Nick Schonert (Worcester Warriors), Brad Shields (Wasps), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Elliott Stooke (Bath Rugby), Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby), Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs), Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons).

Backs
Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks), Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Leicester Tigers), Alex Lozowski (Saracens), Jonny May (Leicester Tigers), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors), Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

Well, that ends that discussion on Marchant. If Manu is genuinely fit, then he is the obvious foil to Ford/Faz - can carry bad ball if needed, would definitely attract the attention of defences to make the pull-back more effective, is fast enough to sweep round and support if the ball goes outside, is a better rucker than some of our back row options.

However, hands up who trusts him to be fit?

Puja

No Marchant and no Morgan.

Looks like Morgan’s chances of impressing have completely gone now. Definitely for the AIs anyway.

Good to see Lozowski and Tuilagi In.

Kruis out of AIs with calf injury.

Moon
Hepburn
Hartley
Sinckler
Williams
Schonert
George
Itoje
Lawes
Ewels
Stooke
Underhill
Wilson
Shields
Hill
Mercer

Youngs
Care
Wigglesworth
Ford
Farrell
Te'o
Tuilagi
Lozowski
Slade
May
Nowell
Ashton
Cokanasiga
Daly

Just writing that out in playing order and noticed there's no Kruis. Did he pick up an injury? ETA. Just seen Oakboy above. Shame, but we've still got locks to spare given Ewels is back in form.

Puja

Based on that, I'd be going:
1. Moon
2. George
3. Sinckler
4. Itoje
5. Lawes
6. Wilson (c)
7. Underhill
8. Mercer
9. Care
10. Ford
11. May
12. Lozowski
13. Tuilagi
14. Cokanasiga
15. Daly

---

16. Hartley
17. Hepburn
18. Williams
19. Ewels
20. Hill (because, fuck it)
21. Youngs
22. Farrell
23. Nowell / Ashton

30 man training squad is here:-

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/engla ... rnational/

Forwards
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs), Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors) *, Maro Itoje (Saracens), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby), Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs), Nick Schonert (Worcester Warriors), Brad Shields (Wasps), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Elliott Stooke (Bath Rugby), Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby), Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs), Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons).

Backs
Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks), Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Leicester Tigers), Alex Lozowski (Saracens), Jonny May (Leicester Tigers), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors), Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

Gloskarlos wrote:30 man training squad is here:-

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/engla ... rnational/

Four hours and 58 minutes after the initial scoop...

Puja

It's weird that the 6 absentees from the original 36 are Curry, Morgan and Kruis - injured, with Rhodes, Earle and Brown - discarded. Those last three must be somewhat dispirited, especially when Wigglesworth is included. I wonder how Jones explained it. Why bother to call up any of the three in the first place?

Oakboy wrote:It's weird that the 6 absentees from the original 36 are Curry, Morgan and Kruis - injured, with Rhodes, Earle and Brown - discarded. Those last three must be somewhat dispirited, especially when Wigglesworth is included. I wonder how Jones explained it. Why bother to call up any of the three in the first place?

I guess the point is that the three of them see who they're up against in training and work harder to fight for a future position. Mind, neither Earle nor Rhodes should have been there in the first place - they're just not international quality - so I don't see them kicking on. Brown might though - he's got more in the locker than we've seen across the last couple of years and a revitalised Brown can only be good for English rugby.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Oakboy wrote:It's weird that the 6 absentees from the original 36 are Curry, Morgan and Kruis - injured, with Rhodes, Earle and Brown - discarded. Those last three must be somewhat dispirited, especially when Wigglesworth is included. I wonder how Jones explained it. Why bother to call up any of the three in the first place?

I guess the point is that the three of them see who they're up against in training and work harder to fight for a future position. Mind, neither Earle nor Rhodes should have been there in the first place - they're just not international quality - so I don't see them kicking on. Brown might though - he's got more in the locker than we've seen across the last couple of years and a revitalised Brown can only be good for English rugby.

Puja

Fair enough. I just don't understand Jones if that is his logic. Wade to the US, Graham to a kilt, Cipriani to oblivion, Cole to his wheelchair . . .

I hope the collective morale survives.

If he’s fit, Brown will still be in the mix in a year’s time. It’s possible Daly and Watson go as fullbacks which would allow us another winger, but there aren’t any other specialists in the frame.

I’m less sure on Cole. Currently the only thing he has in his favour is Eddie’s bit about needing a certain number of caps. Sinckler has put in two strong performances against two top sides and Williams is a decent second choice. We won’t be taking more than 2 tightheads and I’m not even sure I’d have Cole as 3rd choice right now anyway.

I’m really not keen on Rhodes and while Earle has been good for Quins, he’s not better than the other wingers in the squad.

Puja wrote:

Oakboy wrote:It's weird that the 6 absentees from the original 36 are Curry, Morgan and Kruis - injured, with Rhodes, Earle and Brown - discarded. Those last three must be somewhat dispirited, especially when Wigglesworth is included. I wonder how Jones explained it. Why bother to call up any of the three in the first place?

I guess the point is that the three of them see who they're up against in training and work harder to fight for a future position. Mind, neither Earle nor Rhodes should have been there in the first place - they're just not international quality - so I don't see them kicking on. Brown might though - he's got more in the locker than we've seen across the last couple of years and a revitalised Brown can only be good for English rugby.

Puja

Not just that, but I think it's also a case of looking for certain qualities and seeing if they can step up in camp. Most don't, so they're discarded. Some have the potential to do so, so they're continuously selected, hoping they do manage to step up at some point. And some break into the general squad.

I see no problem with this, especially when we have so many out injured. I actually think it's a good idea. I just disagree with the players picked in the first place

Oakboy wrote:It's weird that the 6 absentees from the original 36 are Curry, Morgan and Kruis - injured, with Rhodes, Earle and Brown - discarded. Those last three must be somewhat dispirited, especially when Wigglesworth is included. I wonder how Jones explained it. Why bother to call up any of the three in the first place?

Whats’s weird? You’ve lost me.

Timbo wrote:

Oakboy wrote:It's weird that the 6 absentees from the original 36 are Curry, Morgan and Kruis - injured, with Rhodes, Earle and Brown - discarded. Those last three must be somewhat dispirited, especially when Wigglesworth is included. I wonder how Jones explained it. Why bother to call up any of the three in the first place?

Whats’s weird? You’ve lost me.

Weird that Brown should be in the squad after all his years of service. Was he just there as injury cover? Jones obviously never intended playing him having decided on Daly.

Weird that the other two were there at all. In Rhodes's case, with his background and age, did he ever have a chance of playing? If not, why not introduce the other Curry, or someone similar? As for Earle, why not one of the two superb under-20 wingers?

Why 36 anyway? Why not 30 if that is what he needs now? I really do not see what the three had to offer in camp. As for injured players, just replace as necessary.

Why does EJ need to re-name a training squad for every test? Can’t he just have a squad for the month and add & release players as necessary? Is is part of the deal with the clubs?

Lizard wrote:Why does EJ need to re-name a training squad for every test? Can’t he just have a squad for the month and add & release players as necessary? Is is part of the deal with the clubs?

That's what this is. He needs to name a squad for the whole period, plus from that squad he should name weekly squads. So this is him narrowing sown to the match squad.

You lot don’t half complicate things.

Wouldn’t it be easier if the England Rugby Union contracted all the players and controlled when they played for club and when for country?

*Lights blue touch paper and stands well clear*

Tell the Premiership

DT says Tuilagi unfit - 'Jones expects to have all players available apart from Kruis and Tuilagi'.

Oakboy wrote:DT says Tuilagi unfit - 'Jones expects to have all players available apart from Kruis and Tuilagi'.

and will field his strongest side, not attend ref meetings - ever again -, stands by Hartley had a sore thumb, the co-captaincy was a stroke of genius and boot cut jeans are back in vogue