Post-AI team selection.

[morepork]

I doubt he'd have his confidence shattered up against Earls, tbh...

But if Watson is fit, I would definitely start him at FB and have Daly back in the 11 shirt.

Big Joe in the 23 shirt, mind, if not starting.

Watson didn't look exactly comfortable last time he played FB for England.

It's why I would like to see May given a go there in Dublin.

Yeah, about that...

Not sure May's your man for the more...cerebral positions.

Wing is fine. "Where ball. Get ball. Run with ball."

FB...a little bit more complicated.

[Rich]

I doubt he'd have his confidence shattered up against Earls, tbh...

But if Watson is fit, I would definitely start him at FB and have Daly back in the 11 shirt.

Big Joe in the 23 shirt, mind, if not starting.

Watson didn't look exactly comfortable last time he played FB for England.

It's why I would like to see May given a go there in Dublin.

May's tried FB in club rugby more than once. He's a wing.

OK, Brown it is then for the RWC.

[Rich]

Or, you know, lines, pace and maybe a score... Wasps were fantastic last season at scoring straight from a lineout or scrum, Glaws don't look quite as slick at it yet, but it's coming, England actually looked half handy at it at times too (Scotland being the high point a couple of years ago).

We're talking test match rugby here not the dross you get in the English premiership.

Test match teams will defend well.

[Stom]

Or, you know, lines, pace and maybe a score... Wasps were fantastic last season at scoring straight from a lineout or scrum, Glaws don't look quite as slick at it yet, but it's coming, England actually looked half handy at it at times too (Scotland being the high point a couple of years ago).

We're talking test match rugby here not the dross you get in the English premiership.

Test match teams will defend well.

Tell that to everyone except Ireland...

So, how many tries/minute do we score with Ford at 10 compared to with Farrell at 10?

[Puja]

Watson didn't look exactly comfortable last time he played FB for England.

It's why I would like to see May given a go there in Dublin.

May's tried FB in club rugby more than once. He's a wing.

OK, Brown it is then for the RWC.

You say that, but if Watson is either unfit or not up to playing international 15 (which he's had very few opportunities at), then I'd take Brown. He's not a great and he's past his best, but he's solid and safe and far from a weakness. We could do worse.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

As much as I love the idea of a back three with the pace and ability that May, Daly at Watson could offer, it probably won’t work as unit.

Neither Watson or Daly has convinced at 15 and while I can kind of see where Rich is coming from re. May given his improved positioning and ability under the high ball, he doesn’t really have the rest of the skill set required.

We probably have to accept that a compromise needs to be made somewhere and while Brown isn’t a better player, he’s still a much better fullback.

Apart from the obvious highlight of his try last weekend, Daly didn’t do anywhere near enough in attack to make up for his shortcomings defensively. Brown obviously wouldn’t have scored that try in a million years, but I’d have backed him to have made more of an all round contribution across the four games.

Daly is clearly better as a winger or a 13 than he is as a fullback, so I’d rather return to him where he has been effective.

[Mellsblue]

How many games as Watson played at fullback for England. The only ones I can think of were the two at the end of last season’s 6N. Granted, they weren’t the best but it’s hardly a weighty body of evidence.

If only he played there for Bath....

[Timbo]

How many games as Watson played at fullback for England. The only ones I can think of were the two at the end of last season’s 6N. Granted, they weren’t the best but it’s hardly a weighty body of evidence.

If only he played there for Bath....

Was wondering the same. 30 mins against Ire, starts against Fra and last Autumn vs Oz. Think he’s moved there a couple of times late in games when subs have been made.

And from memory, other than that one high ball against Ireland for their first try (which was a really obvious Kearney knock on btw, but whatever) I don’t recall him looking out of place. He’s got to be worth a run of games at 15 in the 6N.

[Mellsblue]

How many games as Watson played at fullback for England. The only ones I can think of were the two at the end of last season’s 6N. Granted, they weren’t the best but it’s hardly a weighty body of evidence.

If only he played there for Bath....

Was wondering the same. 30 mins against Ire, starts against Fra and last Autumn vs Oz. Think he’s moved there a couple of times late in games when subs have been made.

And from memory, other than that one high ball against Ireland for their first try (which was a really obvious Kearney knock on btw, but whatever) I don’t recall him looking out of place. He’s got to be worth a run of games in the 6N.

He did chuck an absolute howler off his left hand; but, yeh, I thought he went ok. Which, given it was his first few games at fb at test level is pretty good. He was definitely better than Daly - no surprise given Daly isn’t a fullback - and certainly a more attacking option than Brown*.

*this will piss off Mikey Brown in two very different ways.

[Timbo]

How many games as Watson played at fullback for England. The only ones I can think of were the two at the end of last season’s 6N. Granted, they weren’t the best but it’s hardly a weighty body of evidence.

If only he played there for Bath....

Was wondering the same. 30 mins against Ire, starts against Fra and last Autumn vs Oz. Think he’s moved there a couple of times late in games when subs have been made.

And from memory, other than that one high ball against Ireland for their first try (which was a really obvious Kearney knock on btw, but whatever) I don’t recall him looking out of place. He’s got to be worth a run of games in the 6N.

He did chuck an absolute howler off his left hand; but, yeh, I thought he went ok. Which, given it was his first few games at fb at test level is pretty good. He was definitely better than Daly - no surprise given Daly isn’t a fullback - and certainly a more attacking option than Brown*.

*this will piss off Mikey Brown in two very different ways.

Tbh, I can barely remember the France game, other than both teams were absolutely awful.

The 30-6 Oz game was played in a monsoon, he did the basics well but no great opportunities ball in hand.

He also came on at fullback early on against the Crusaders for the Lions, which is as good as test level rugby, and was outstanding.

[WaspInWales]

BBC Sport users have selected their England XV:

Kinda shows how fickle some fans can be.

Daly at 15 is surprising, as is Big Joe starting in Japan based on a couple of tests.

I'm all for seeing more of Cokanasiga, and I definitely want to see him start the majority of 6Ns matches. He has promise, but needs more game time.

As for Daly, I wouldn't be too upset seeing him back on the wing and then coming into midfield looking for work where he can be a proper handful.

Funny how Launchbury is forgotten.

Tuilagi is a difficult one. If he stays match fit and injury free, he'd be starting for me every week, but I'm starting to think that a second Brexit referendum is more likely than him getting a run of games under his belt. Massive shame too.

Starting to feel that way about Billy too and that is probably more devastating for England as the #8 cupboard is a bit bare, although Wilson has shown real promise.

If Billy can stay fit, I'm starting to like our backrow options more than I have for a few years.

[twitchy]

[fivepointer]

Wilson's long overdue selection and subsequent strong showing in the tests was one of the most pleasing things about the autumn series.

[Oakboy]

BBC Sport users have selected their England XV:

Kinda shows how fickle some fans can be.

Daly at 15 is surprising, as is Big Joe starting in Japan based on a couple of tests.

I'm all for seeing more of Cokanasiga, and I definitely want to see him start the majority of 6Ns matches. He has promise, but needs more game time.

As for Daly, I wouldn't be too upset seeing him back on the wing and then coming into midfield looking for work where he can be a proper handful.

Funny how Launchbury is forgotten.

Tuilagi is a difficult one. If he stays match fit and injury free, he'd be starting for me every week, but I'm starting to think that a second Brexit referendum is more likely than him getting a run of games under his belt. Massive shame too.

Starting to feel that way about Billy too and that is probably more devastating for England as the #8 cupboard is a bit bare, although Wilson has shown real promise.

If Billy can stay fit, I'm starting to like our backrow options more than I have for a few years.

I agree with all that. As regards the 8 shirt if Billy is missing (as is likely), Morgan disappeared again as quickly as Rhodes did from the 6 debate. I still don't think Jones and his coaching crew have got the best out of Hughes but, if what we have seen so far is the best they can get, he's not the answer. I doubt that Jones has given up on him, though, with his basic love of size. Maybe Wilson starting and Hughes coming off the bench is not the worst solution.


Overall, the back row has some good long-term prospects. I may not be optimistic about Jones's team in the RWC but I'm looking forward to the next era with a new approach. The playing resources look good apart from SH.

[Oakboy]

Wilson's long overdue selection and subsequent strong showing in the tests was one of the most pleasing things about the autumn series.

Yes, it is especially ironical that Graham was called up to the squad first when most of us rated Wilson more highly. It makes me have real doubts about Jones's basic player judgement. Daly at FB seems like another flaw. Maybe there are a few more lurking: not persevering with Robson/Spencer, ignoring Armand, discarding Cipriani etc.

[fivepointer]

Wilson's long overdue selection and subsequent strong showing in the tests was one of the most pleasing things about the autumn series.

Yes, it is especially ironical that Graham was called up to the squad first when most of us rated Wilson more highly. It makes me have real doubts about Jones's basic player judgement. Daly at FB seems like another flaw. Maybe there are a few more lurking: not persevering with Robson/Spencer, ignoring Armand, discarding Cipriani etc.

All coaches can get selection wrong. Its not an exact science, after all.
What was so irritating about Wilson is that he played a tremendous game out in Argentina in his first appearance and was ignored up until the SA tour.
He's had to wait far too long for a run of games. Thats why its so gratifying to see thing do so well now.

[Stom]

I wasn't surprised Wilson did well, he's a very good player. But I was surprised at just how well he did. He looks like he might come close to shutting the door on Robshaw's international career a year early.

[twitchy]

I think lots of us should admit we were completely wrong about shields also. Way too quick too dismiss the guy. Wilson though is so useful he can play 6/8 and in a crisis 7.

[twitchy]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... es-autumn/

On the eve of his team’s 37-18 win over Australia, moments after hearing that arch-poacher David Pocock had been ruled out due to a neck injury, Sam Underhill gave a typically straightforward explanation of why it had been so important for England to improve their poor breakdown performances over the first six months of 2018.

“If your breakdown’s better, you have an opportunity to show that your attack is better. If your defensive breakdown’s better and you’re winning more penalties, you can show that your set piece is better.

“It’s almost an ‘in’ to the game, so the breakdown is allowing us to show what we can do over the rest of the game.”

Various statistics, all of them compiled by Opta, show that England’s autumn has seen more accurate breakdown performances on both sides of the ball. During the Six Nations, England won 577 attacking rucks and lost 27 of them, returning a success rate of 96 per cent from four matches.

Think how many points were squandered and how much field position was surrendered by those 27 lost breakdowns. Over four matches in November, England lost just seven rucks and won 304 more. The success rate has risen to 98 per cent.

Although Pocock’s absence last weekend was undeniably helpful for those figures, England faced Malcolm Marx and Duane Vermeulen at the start of November. We will come to their breakdown discipline in more detail later, but England reduced the average of three holding-on penalties per match (30 in total) that they conceded during the Six Nations to 0.75 (three in total over the autumn).

When it comes to ball retention, cohesive support play and effective running lines can be just as important as clearing out an opposition player and the carrier’s contact skills – ball placement, writhing on the floor to make the ball a moving target and other tricks discussed in this article. Underhill has epitomised this in recent weeks.

The 22 year-old Bath man also spoke about how much he enjoyed dovetailing with Brad Shields and Mark Wilson in a back row that has looked industrious, mobile and resourceful.

“Compared to some back rows we’re probably more similar individually, which gives a good balance,” Underhill added. “We maybe miss a huge stand-out ball carrier, but across us we have the ability to do that. As for sharing work-load, I really enjoyed working with them and trust them a lot.”

Over two impressive seasons with Ospreys, Underhill earned a reputation as a dynamic runner capable of puncturing the gain-line by hitting clever angles. However, injury woes and Bath’s attacking struggles meant that his first Premiership campaign did not showcase these qualities.

This autumn has witnessed the re-emergence of Underhill as a carrier. Helped by Shields and Wilson, who accumulated 68 metres with ball in hand against the Wallabies thanks to his scampering away from the base of scrums and around the back-field, he has hunted weak shoulders and allowed England to generate quick ruck-ball in spite of the absence of both Vunipola brothers.


SEE ARTICLE

When Mako and Billy Vunipola return to the fold, their firepower must be complemented by intelligent support play and slick distribution from teammates. Both siblings are intuitive link-men too, so they can help put others through holes.

In defence, John Mitchell has evidently worked hard on breakdown decision-making as well. England won five jackal turnovers against Australia, taking their total for the autumn to 12. This is one more than they managed over the course of the Six Nations.

In November, they won a jackal turnover around once every 37 rucks they defended. For the Six Nations, that number was up close to 50. It did drop below 23 in South Africa, which may reflect the influence of Tom Curry and Chris Robshaw.

England have still forced other turnovers with aggressive tackling – often as part of an organised kick-chase – and by ripping the ball away from tacklers. Even so, jackalling success speaks to sharper opportunism and better communication with referees around the breakdown, both of which bode well for Rugby World Cup 2019.

SEE ARTICLE

On Saturday, England only conceded six penalties across the 80 minutes, and their overall rate of breakdown penalties has steadily declined over 2018.

Look at the breakdown infringements they made during the Six Nations, over the three-Test series in South Africa and then this November:

These figures concern attack and defence, but the decrease in holding on penalties demonstrates more accurate attacking play with the decrease in ‘off feet’ offences suggesting greater restraint and accuracy in defence.

The figure of 3.3 breakdown penalties per match would be even lower but for the over-eagerness and ill discipline in the first half against Japan, which cost England their only yellow card of the campaign as well.

Tellingly, that game saw Lawes start at blindside flanker before Jones reverted back to Shields when Australia came to town.

Just as the make-up of England’s midfield for the 2019 Six Nations will be the subject of immense scrutiny, so will the back row as Billy Vunipola, Chris Robshaw and Tom Curry come back into contention.

But, as a cohesive combination, Underhill, Shields and Wilson continually gave England an ‘in’ into matches. They have done no harm at all to their prospects of earning tickets to Japan.

[Oakboy]

I think lots of us should admit we were completely wrong about shields also. Way too quick too dismiss the guy. Wilson though is so useful he can play 6/8 and in a crisis 7.

Why? You may be convinced but I'm not. I have seen no evidence that places him ahead of Robshaw, Wilson, Willis, Lawes or Itoje in the blindside pecking order. I'd still have him behind Armand and Rhodes too. He might eventually fulfil a role in Jones's estimation but I still cannot see anything to suggest that all the fuss about poaching him from NZ was justified.

[Mellsblue]

I think lots of us should admit we were completely wrong about shields also. Way too quick too dismiss the guy. Wilson though is so useful he can play 6/8 and in a crisis 7.

Why? You may be convinced but I'm not. I have seen no evidence that places him ahead of Robshaw, Wilson, Willis, Lawes or Itoje in the blindside pecking order. I'd still have him behind Armand and Rhodes too. He might eventually fulfil a role in Jones's estimation but I still cannot see anything to suggest that all the fuss about poaching him from NZ was justified.

He’s improved from poor to average. If he keeps improving he’s Robshaw with a lineout game. I don’t think he’ll ever be anything other than a good, honest test player. Nothing wrong with that but, given Wilson’s series and Robshaw’s caps and experience, I don’t see him ahead of them for the World Cup, at present.

[Mellsblue]

Wilson's long overdue selection and subsequent strong showing in the tests was one of the most pleasing things about the autumn series.

Yes, it is especially ironical that Graham was called up to the squad first when most of us rated Wilson more highly. It makes me have real doubts about Jones's basic player judgement. Daly at FB seems like another flaw. Maybe there are a few more lurking: not persevering with Robson/Spencer, ignoring Armand, discarding Cipriani etc.

All coaches can get selection wrong. Its not an exact science, after all.
What was so irritating about Wilson is that he played a tremendous game out in Argentina in his first appearance and was ignored up until the SA tour.
He's had to wait far too long for a run of games. Thats why its so gratifying to see thing do so well now.

This

[twitchy]

Robshaw with a line out game sounds good to me. Just glad we have actual options now instead of just selecting who ever is fit.

[Mellsblue]

Robshaw with a line out game sounds good to me. Just glad we have actual options now instead of just selecting who ever is fit.

As I say, nothing wrong with that, but Wilson deserves the 6 shirt (assuming Billy is fit. Long shot, I know) based on the series.

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah, he seemed to look a lot more involved against Aus. But he’s been given several free caps in order to get to that point. Wilson has to bust his guts every single week for Newcastle, put in a great performance for England and then still wait another year to get a proper shot, and not even get it in his best position.

This is the stuff that irks people. Clifford, Simmonds, Mercer etc. get a game or two and are out the door the second they don’t have a great game.

Shields may well grow into it and become a very good player. It would be nice if he had to earn it the same way everyone else does though.