RugbyRebels

Sandydragon wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

joshfishkins wrote:We should forget Saturday as quickly as possible - it was a bad day all round. I hate the fact that Gatland has completely blamed the players - surely he must take some blame for our consistent slow starts.

Totally. He usually does this. In fact the only time I can remember him even hinting that the coaching was found wanting was when a shell-shocked Gatland was cornered for an interview after our demolition by Ireland in 2014. He quickly changed his tune later and blamed it all on the players though.

As you say, if this was a one off, blame the players. Since this is a very long-running problem, blame the management for not finding a way to overcome it.

I think our continued slow starts and lack of attacking ability can be firmly blamed on the coaches. Players missing tackles can't.

If we are playing off the pace we will execute everything less well, including tackling. Not saying that the players don't have any questions to answer on the tackling, but it's definitely part of the "slow start".

IMHO the "slow starts" are all part of Gatball. It's not a high intensity tactic - it's a sustained smothering and negation of the opposition. If the opposition play at high enough tempo/intensity with sufficient accuracy, they will stretch us to breaking point and beyond. That IMHO is what happens when we have a "slow start" against a decent team. Saturday saw this in spades.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:
Totally. He usually does this. In fact the only time I can remember him even hinting that the coaching was found wanting was when a shell-shocked Gatland was cornered for an interview after our demolition by Ireland in 2014. He quickly changed his tune later and blamed it all on the players though.

As you say, if this was a one off, blame the players. Since this is a very long-running problem, blame the management for not finding a way to overcome it.

I think our continued slow starts and lack of attacking ability can be firmly blamed on the coaches. Players missing tackles can't.

If we are playing off the pace we will execute everything less well, including tackling. Not saying that the players don't have any questions to answer on the tackling, but it's definitely part of the "slow start".

IMHO the "slow starts" are all part of Gatball. It's not a high intensity tactic - it's a sustained smothering and negation of the opposition. If the opposition play at high enough tempo/intensity with sufficient accuracy, they will stretch us to breaking point and beyond. That IMHO is what happens when we have a "slow start" against a decent team. Saturday saw this in spades.

I'm not sure it is deliberate. On previous tours we have started badly then got better as time went by. And we keep hearing reports of a rollicking at half time. I'm not sure what the problem is, or why Gatland hasn't gripped it over 8 years.

I disagree that there's nothing to play for. Saying "second place is just first loser" is fine and dandy before the start, but when it's all that's on offer, we need to take it.

That said, there's really no point in having a squad if we're never going to use it. Any match XXIII we can devise should be able to beat his Italian side in Cardiff.

Sourdust wrote:I disagree that there's nothing to play for. Saying "second place is just first loser" is fine and dandy before the start, but when it's all that's on offer, we need to take it.

That said, there's really no point in having a squad if we're never going to use it. Any match XXIII we can devise should be able to beat his Italian side in Cardiff.

Agreed. We want second, we also do not want to lose to this hopeless Italian team. We should be looking to demolish them like last year, or better.

Sandydragon wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

joshfishkins wrote:We should forget Saturday as quickly as possible - it was a bad day all round. I hate the fact that Gatland has completely blamed the players - surely he must take some blame for our consistent slow starts.

Totally. He usually does this. In fact the only time I can remember him even hinting that the coaching was found wanting was when a shell-shocked Gatland was cornered for an interview after our demolition by Ireland in 2014. He quickly changed his tune later and blamed it all on the players though.

As you say, if this was a one off, blame the players. Since this is a very long-running problem, blame the management for not finding a way to overcome it.

I think our continued slow starts and lack of attacking ability can be firmly blamed on the coaches. Players missing tackles can't.

Except we were clearly targetting Vunipola. This created space out wide that led to missed tackles. That must have been a coaching tactic - stop Vunipola and they've got nothing lads. Except for that Itoje fella, turns out he's quite good, which surprised no-one except us on Saturday. The coaches have to accept their share of the blame.

I'm glad that Webb and Amos are both starting. Not sure why Baldwin is still starting instead of Ken Owens. Good that Moriarty is getting a chance too.

Wales by 40

does that mean Lydiate is skipper?

joshfishkins wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:
Totally. He usually does this. In fact the only time I can remember him even hinting that the coaching was found wanting was when a shell-shocked Gatland was cornered for an interview after our demolition by Ireland in 2014. He quickly changed his tune later and blamed it all on the players though.

As you say, if this was a one off, blame the players. Since this is a very long-running problem, blame the management for not finding a way to overcome it.

I think our continued slow starts and lack of attacking ability can be firmly blamed on the coaches. Players missing tackles can't.

Except we were clearly targetting Vunipola. This created space out wide that led to missed tackles. That must have been a coaching tactic - stop Vunipola and they've got nothing lads. Except for that Itoje fella, turns out he's quite good, which surprised no-one except us on Saturday. The coaches have to accept their share of the blame.

Yep, I was pleasantly surprised we (England) had some new tactics; you were out-coached in the first half imo.

No real surprises from Gatland. Would AWJ and Cuthbert have played if they weren't injured?

normanski wrote:No real surprises from Gatland. Would AWJ and Cuthbert have played if they weren't injured?

Most likely. I'd have no probs AWJ playing if he's fit. He just looks like he's needed a rest for a while.
Cuthbert would have been one of the ones given "a chance to redeem himself", although god knows he's had more than enough.

How Baldwin has retained his place is beyond me.

Priestland and Anscombe on the bench is almost literally pointless.

Just fed up of the whole thing to be honest.

Glad that Amos is on the wing but not in the way he was chosen i.e. Cuthbert has an 'injury'?!! Anscombe instead of nipper is a disgrace imho. Plus, if AWJ was carrying an injury and has played a lot why not rest him earlier?

Feel a bit sorry for Gareth Davies but he has slipped a bit, not convinced of Webb yet.

I swear Gatland only makes changes to the squad if he is forced to i.e. injuries!

A change in tactics would nice but won't hold my breath. Ireland put 50 odd on Italy, if we are serious so should we.

Hard to tell without watching the game again how bad Davies was/how much better Webb was. Certainly a difference when Priest and Webb were on, but surely they were also getting better ball and were under less pressure.

Would any of you have been tempted to start Priestland and see if you can get a bit more out of Roberts?

Mikey Brown wrote:Would any of you have been tempted to start Priestland and see if you can get a bit more out of Roberts?

I definitely would have. Priestland has played himself into form, while Biggar is still not firing. We could always hoik him off if he starts wobbling, but Wales look better when attacking, and Biggar doesn't really bring that to the party. He steadies the ship and plays a structured game. Priestland goes for it.

Hwyl dda wrote:Glad that Amos is on the wing but not in the way he was chosen i.e. Cuthbert has an 'injury'?!! Anscombe instead of nipper is a disgrace imho. Plus, if AWJ was carrying an injury and has played a lot why not rest him earlier?

Feel a bit sorry for Gareth Davies but he has slipped a bit, not convinced of Webb yet.

I swear Gatland only makes changes to the squad if he is forced to i.e. injuries!

A change in tactics would nice but won't hold my breath. Ireland put 50 odd on Italy, if we are serious so should we.

Amos isn't half the player Cuthbert could be. In fact, he's not really international class, IMO. Nipper is a terrific player who has yet to prove himself at any level. I'm not sure what Anscombe has got.

Webb looks light years ahead of Davies at the moment. His speed of thought, and decision making is so much better.
Some of Davies' passing was Bergomasco like on Saturday. Passing over people's heads and into gaps between players (I seem to remember through the drunken haze).

UKHamlet wrote:

Hwyl dda wrote:Glad that Amos is on the wing but not in the way he was chosen i.e. Cuthbert has an 'injury'?!! Anscombe instead of nipper is a disgrace imho. Plus, if AWJ was carrying an injury and has played a lot why not rest him earlier?

Feel a bit sorry for Gareth Davies but he has slipped a bit, not convinced of Webb yet.

I swear Gatland only makes changes to the squad if he is forced to i.e. injuries!

A change in tactics would nice but won't hold my breath. Ireland put 50 odd on Italy, if we are serious so should we.

Amos isn't half the player Cuthbert could be. In fact, he's not really international class, IMO. Nipper is a terrific player who has yet to prove himself at any level. I'm not sure what Anscombe has got.

Pictures of Gatland, Howley and a sheep?

davejames78 wrote:Webb looks light years ahead of Davies at the moment. His speed of thought, and decision making is so much better.

...............but not under the same kind of pressure...we spent a great deal of that game on the back foot getting bossed at the breakdown and didn't get our own way in the set pieces either.

Webb improved last year once he's played himself in a bit, his decision making, kicking and go-it-alone heroics have been a liability too in the past though.

UKHamlet wrote:

Hwyl dda wrote:Glad that Amos is on the wing but not in the way he was chosen i.e. Cuthbert has an 'injury'?!! Anscombe instead of nipper is a disgrace imho. Plus, if AWJ was carrying an injury and has played a lot why not rest him earlier?

Feel a bit sorry for Gareth Davies but he has slipped a bit, not convinced of Webb yet.

I swear Gatland only makes changes to the squad if he is forced to i.e. injuries!

A change in tactics would nice but won't hold my breath. Ireland put 50 odd on Italy, if we are serious so should we.

Amos isn't half the player Cuthbert could be. In fact, he's not really international class, IMO. Nipper is a terrific player who has yet to prove himself at any level. I'm not sure what Anscombe has got.

I haven't seen this. As an out and out finisher Cuthbert was/could be superb. As a rugby player then Amos is the better bet.

Billyfish wrote:

UKHamlet wrote:

Hwyl dda wrote:Glad that Amos is on the wing but not in the way he was chosen i.e. Cuthbert has an 'injury'?!! Anscombe instead of nipper is a disgrace imho. Plus, if AWJ was carrying an injury and has played a lot why not rest him earlier?

Feel a bit sorry for Gareth Davies but he has slipped a bit, not convinced of Webb yet.

I swear Gatland only makes changes to the squad if he is forced to i.e. injuries!

A change in tactics would nice but won't hold my breath. Ireland put 50 odd on Italy, if we are serious so should we.

Amos isn't half the player Cuthbert could be. In fact, he's not really international class, IMO. Nipper is a terrific player who has yet to prove himself at any level. I'm not sure what Anscombe has got.

I haven't seen this. As an out and out finisher Cuthbert was/could be superb. As a rugby player then Amos is the better bet.

Cuthbert is a powerful and evasive runner. He just doesn't do it often enough. His only real weakness is his defence, which is poor.

Tom Francis banned for 8 weeks.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... d-11043922

UKHamlet wrote:

Hwyl dda wrote:Glad that Amos is on the wing but not in the way he was chosen i.e. Cuthbert has an 'injury'?!! Anscombe instead of nipper is a disgrace imho. Plus, if AWJ was carrying an injury and has played a lot why not rest him earlier?

Feel a bit sorry for Gareth Davies but he has slipped a bit, not convinced of Webb yet.

I swear Gatland only makes changes to the squad if he is forced to i.e. injuries!

A change in tactics would nice but won't hold my breath. Ireland put 50 odd on Italy, if we are serious so should we.

Amos isn't half the player Cuthbert could be. In fact, he's not really international class, IMO. Nipper is a terrific player who has yet to prove himself at any level. I'm not sure what Anscombe has got.

No, he knows how to actually play rugby , he can read a game, tackle, catch, pass, fend and kick. If your criteria for an International winger is to be big and fast Cuthbert edges him, in all other areas Cuthbert is inferior.

Can you see Cuthbert managing to do this:

[bbvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/embed/fI3Qr-tWKFU[/bbvideo]

First try.

And Amos wouldn't have scored this.