RugbyRebels

Digby wrote:

paddy no 11 wrote:Who is that man?

Yet again another scenario where having 2 jurisdictions on the island of Ireland is a disaster, unlike Brexit this one is going to cost lives if Johnson and foster continue being cunts

How can you possibly know which side is taking the right approach?

Well only thing sure is that 1 leg in and 1 leg out will be a failure

Stom wrote:

Puja wrote:

Stom wrote:
Surely companies like that could be sued for endangering public health? The quicker we can get rid of them/that mindset, the better

No chance - Boris isn't declaring or ordering anything; he's simply "urging" people and companies to social distance. That way, he's not responsible for things and none of his mates in the insurance industry have to pay out anything, cause people are choosing to close/running out of customers, rather than being ordered to by the government.

Puja

The UK is technically still in the EU. The checks and balances of the free world are still available to you...lol.

Official government advice is to consider closing or letting people work from home, but it's not a requirement. They've considered it and decided that security is more important (as we handle lots of people's data). They're following the government's advice - there's not much to go against there.

It is somewhat irrelevant however, as I now have a cough and am exiled for the good of the realm.

Puja

Leper.

Puja wrote:

Stom wrote:

Puja wrote:
My work absolutely, 100% can be done from home. However, the company I work for don't like it, as it gives them less control over us and less ability to monitor us. They were insistent that it was not possible until last week when suddenly all the IT software sprang fully formed from the head of Zeus when there was a possibility of money being lost.

I could very easily work from home. But I'm getting ready to go on a train to get into the office because my work are arseholes.

Puja

Surely companies like that could be sued for endangering public health? The quicker we can get rid of them/that mindset, the better

No chance - Boris isn't declaring or ordering anything; he's simply "urging" people and companies to social distance. That way, he's not responsible for things and none of his mates in the insurance industry have to pay out anything, cause people are choosing to close/running out of customers, rather than being ordered to by the government.

Puja

Just checked on insurance- it appears to be irrelevant whether Boris shuts them down or not, very few companies will be covered. What the govt should do is be the insurer of last resort, bit like the bank bail out. Jezza might get his way after all
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51927500

Trying to implement current guidance raises more questions than answers, but so far my staff have been awesome.

paddy no 11 wrote:

Digby wrote:

paddy no 11 wrote:Who is that man?

Yet again another scenario where having 2 jurisdictions on the island of Ireland is a disaster, unlike Brexit this one is going to cost lives if Johnson and foster continue being cunts

How can you possibly know which side is taking the right approach?

Well only thing sure is that 1 leg in and 1 leg out will be a failure

Why?

How many cycles of this will we go through? What rate of infections will see hospital admissions? How severe will lockdowns be, how long will they last for? How badly will people suffer during economic hardship, and how would those numbers vary against a lighter touch on Covid? When will herd immunity come on, and will that be natural of vaccine based? And so on and so on

I think the communication should be much clearer, but the actual decisions taken whilst they might not be the same I'd have made if presented with the data and advice from some very well researched individuals don't suggest this isn't being taken seriously with a well thought out response.

There's far too much we don't know about how this will pan out in the short, medium and long term to go second guessing or saying this looks a simple solution, even before I'm supposing a lot of the guessing is being done by people who like myself aren't even remotely educated to the required standard in the relevant fields.

Digby wrote:

paddy no 11 wrote:

Digby wrote:
How can you possibly know which side is taking the right approach?

Well only thing sure is that 1 leg in and 1 leg out will be a failure

Why?

How many cycles of this will we go through? What rate of infections will see hospital admissions? How severe will lockdowns be, how long will they last for? How badly will people suffer during economic hardship, and how would those numbers vary against a lighter touch on Covid? When will herd immunity come on, and will that be natural of vaccine based? And so on and so on

I think the communication should be much clearer, but the actual decisions taken whilst they might not be the same I'd have made if presented with the data and advice from some very well researched individuals don't suggest this isn't being taken seriously with a well thought out response.

There's far too much we don't know about how this will pan out in the short, medium and long term to go second guessing or saying this looks a simple solution, even before I'm supposing a lot of the guessing is being done by people who like myself aren't even remotely educated to the required standard in the relevant fields.

This, and its only the last lot of comms which are really tricky to untangle, prior to that straightforward and easy to implement within the business and put into our continuity planning.

Was the proposed strategy scorched earth? Let the fucker cane through the population and see who is left standing? Why not release wolves into cities to pick off the weak and infirm?

morepork wrote:Was the proposed strategy scorched earth? Let the fucker cane through the population and see who is left standing? Why not release wolves into cities to pick off the weak and infirm?

You could reasonably say they wanted to run longer with less shutdown to try and let the virus spread, a less stringent opening to the delay phase, but the ongoing assessment doesn't seem to have delivered what they hoped and they've shifted focus. In practice we don't seem that far removed from similar responses across Northern Europe

morepork wrote:Was the proposed strategy scorched earth? Let the fucker cane through the population and see who is left standing? Why not release wolves into cities to pick off the weak and infirm?

Close.
The initial strategy was to cocoon off the vulnerable (old, infirm, immune compromised etc); and then "manage" it's progress through the rest of the population, so that herd immunity had been granted ahead of the new 'flu season; but trying to flatten the curves up to that point. But it was a matter of sheer guesswork for when to enact what measures, because we were only testing people who didn't need to be tested as the clinical picture was already fucking obvious.

The plan was A] Protect the most likely to need NHS care; and lock them away for 4-5 months B] Hope that hand washing and voluntary social distancing was enough to flatten the curve so that the whole things burns out in 4-5 months rather than 2-3 C] Keep everything open as much as possible in the mean time D] Accept about half a million deaths (which will easily quadruple if we get our guesses wrong, or those cocoons fail to be impenetrable) E] hit the post-apocalyptic world running, a year or so ahead of everyone else. The secondary (or, let's be fair, maybe the primary) was that the British public might be able to take 3-4 months of limited confinement; but wouldn't take more severe measures, or much longer than that.

5 days later, we've decided to change tack, and do what the rest of Europe is doing; and what the WHO demand (except for you know, actually testing people) - just 5 days later than the cut off time for it to be a viable strategy. Which means that we're going to have a spike that's high enough to collapse the NHS AND considered too long to impose the necessary confinements - so we get the worst of both models and the benefits of neither

That's pretty ballsy. The whole of the Isles would become a war zone. Health care facilities would be completely overwhelmed in a matter of days.

All of my staff and many within the organisation are working from home. Most are looking forward to a change but some of my colleagues are having real problems with staff who have special equipment or nominated desks within the office due to back issues etc who don't have the same facility at their home. We also found that our remote authentication server had only 20% of the capacity required to cover everyone, but thankfully that was a reasonably quick fix.

So far, most people Ive spoken to have taken this in good spirits. How long that good humour lasts for is another matter.

morepork wrote:That's pretty ballsy. The whole of the Isles would become a war zone. Health care facilities would be completely overwhelmed in a matter of days.

Computer modelling will only take you so far. The plan probably looked great on paper and I get the logic, but reality is a bit different.

Could be a great episode of Big Brother.

morepork wrote:That's pretty ballsy.

Very.
It's one of those models that makes a lot of sense when you're gaming it (and let's face it, would probably be a big win if you were on the side of humanity in Plague.Inc); and the numbers are just numbers. It's a whole different ball game when it's reality, and the numbers are actual death tolls with your name on them.

I think there was also a problem with the basic modelling - Behaviorally they were predicated on the "Blitz Spirit" British public that we were told was current during the Brexit debates; and not the "I want ALL the toilet paper" spirit of our current reality.
The data used to create the models were also (apparently) based on small numbers of people (students) being asked what they'd do when money was at stake, and admission was the form of reporting - as opposed to nation-sized groups of people with lives are at stake - hence the "people can only take draconian measures for so long" and cocooning measures being gamed as near-perfect.

Which Tyler wrote:

morepork wrote:Was the proposed strategy scorched earth? Let the fucker cane through the population and see who is left standing? Why not release wolves into cities to pick off the weak and infirm?

Close.
The initial strategy was to cocoon off the vulnerable (old, infirm, immune compromised etc); and then "manage" it's progress through the rest of the population, so that herd immunity had been granted ahead of the new 'flu season; but trying to flatten the curves up to that point. But it was a matter of sheer guesswork for when to enact what measures, because we were only testing people who didn't need to be tested as the clinical picture was already fucking obvious.

The plan was A] Protect the most likely to need NHS care; and lock them away for 4-5 months B] Hope that hand washing and voluntary social distancing was enough to flatten the curve so that the whole things burns out in 4-5 months rather than 2-3 C] Keep everything open as much as possible in the mean time D] Accept about half a million deaths (which will easily quadruple if we get our guesses wrong, or those cocoons fail to be impenetrable) E] hit the post-apocalyptic world running, a year or so ahead of everyone else. The secondary (or, let's be fair, maybe the primary) was that the British public might be able to take 3-4 months of limited confinement; but wouldn't take more severe measures, or much longer than that.

5 days later, we've decided to change tack, and do what the rest of Europe is doing; and what the WHO demand (except for you know, actually testing people) - just 5 days later than the cut off time for it to be a viable strategy. Which means that we're going to have a spike that's high enough to collapse the NHS AND considered too long to impose the necessary confinements - so we get the worst of both models and the benefits of neither

What’s your source for this?

morepork wrote:Was the proposed strategy scorched earth? Let the fucker cane through the population and see who is left standing? Why not release wolves into cities to pick off the weak and infirm?

Political correctness.

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/ ... r-everyone?

To: Prime Minister Boris Johnson and Chancellor of the Exchequer Rishi Sunak
Coronavirus: A temporary universal basic income for everyone

In light of COVID-19 everyone should receive a temporary universal basic income, including freelancers and the self-employed.
Why is this important?

In light of Government advice to minimise the scale and spread of coronavirus many people, especially freelancers, self-employed people and people on lower incomes will be left with little to no money for the foreseeable future.

The Government must adopt emergency measures right now to support people across the country, by providing temporary universal basic income so we all have enough money to survive. Universal basic income is a sum of money given to everyone to help pay for essentials like food and bills. Already Labour and Conservative MPs are calling on the Government to do it, and politicians in the USA and other countries are also calling on their Governments to do the same.

There is a lot more that needs to be done to mitigate the impact of coronavirus - from helping people get support from their workplace when they are sick, to making sure tenants don’t face eviction. But ensuring everyone across the country has a set sum to get by could save lives. If you think everyone should be guaranteed enough money to pay for basic essentials at a time like this, will you add your name to the petition now?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/51929628

Coronavirus and ibuprofen: Separating fact from fiction

Stories have been circulating online suggesting it's dangerous to take ibuprofen if you have coronavirus. Alongside genuine medical advice, false messages have been spreading, distorting the facts.

Both paracetamol and ibuprofen can bring a temperature down and help with flu-like symptoms.

But ibuprofen and other non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) are not suitable for everyone and can cause side-effects - especially for people with asthma, heart and circulatory problems.

Article continues

"4 young people in Cork" - false

"University of Vienna" - false

"Hospital in Toulouse" - false

Which Tyler wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/51929628

Coronavirus and ibuprofen: Separating fact from fiction

Stories have been circulating online suggesting it's dangerous to take ibuprofen if you have coronavirus. Alongside genuine medical advice, false messages have been spreading, distorting the facts.

Both paracetamol and ibuprofen can bring a temperature down and help with flu-like symptoms.

But ibuprofen and other non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) are not suitable for everyone and can cause side-effects - especially for people with asthma, heart and circulatory problems.

Article continues

"4 young people in Cork" - false

"University of Vienna" - false

"Hospital in Toulouse" - false

Zuckerberg sucks so much rancid donkey cock, its impossible to quantity. State of emergency powers should include nationalising Facebook. Fuck I hate it.

Latest numbreros:

           Fat./ Cases (%)
UK      71/  1950  (3.6)
Ire        2/     223 (0.9)
Fra  148/   6664  (2.2)
Ger    20/  8084   (0.25)
Ita 2503/31506   (7.9)
Spa 499/11309   (4.4)

Tot: 3243 /59736 (5.4)

Alot of fatalities quite quickly, as we know.
Not sure if the big variation in fatality rates reflects differences in treatment success, in built flu-like resistance in Northern peeps or just reporting methods.
Maybe pickled cabbage is the way forward..

Melbourne group identify immune response cell-types..(akin to common flu it seems. )
Question of promoting/facilitating this separate from a vaccine, in the short term maybe.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-51921403

It's about to go exponential. Germany clearly has the superior health infrastructure.

morepork wrote:It's about to go exponential. Germany clearly has the superior health infrastructure.

That, or Germany are actually testing people

Here, none are tested, healthcare is rotting, there are officially 30 cases but in reality it’s probably more like 2,000. Old women ignore isolation and go out as normal acting like idiots and shopping 3 times a day, buying 10kg of flour each time.

Sometime this week, the shit will hit the fan, here, the government will try to cover it up and we’re going to have some problems...

Galfon wrote:Latest numbreros:

           Fat./ Cases (%)
UK      71/  1950  (3.6)
Ire        2/     223 (0.9)
Fra  148/   6664  (2.2)
Ger    20/  8084   (0.25)
Ita 2503/31506   (7.9)
Spa 499/11309   (4.4)

Tot: 3243 /59736 (5.4)

Alot of fatalities quite quickly, as we know.
Not sure if the big variation in fatality rates reflects differences in treatment success, in built flu-like resistance in Northern peeps or just reporting methods.
Maybe pickled cabbage is the way forward..

Melbourne group identify immune response cell-types..(akin to common flu it seems. )
Question of promoting/facilitating this separate from a vaccine, in the short term maybe.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-51921403

In the UK we are being asked to self isolate if any symptoms occur. Many people will feel a little unwell and recover but probably not be formally recorded. I’m thinking that’s why the mortality rate in the UK is higher than predicted.

Stom wrote:Here, none are tested, healthcare is rotting, there are officially 30 cases but in reality it’s probably more like 2,000. Old women ignore isolation and go out as normal acting like idiots and shopping 3 times a day, buying 10kg of flour each time.

Sometime this week, the shit will hit the fan, here, the government will try to cover it up and we’re going to have some problems...

Old people here are ignoring the advice and invoking the Dunkirk Spirit. They should sign a waiver that they will not clog up a bed in the event of illness and take a valuable resource away from someone who is following advice.