RugbyRebels

If by some miracle Willis and Earl do get selected to start against Italy I would hope they were allowed to play to their strengths to show this side a point of difference, so that would mean Willis with his fetching and Earl to get to demonstrate his running game (I’ve a horrible feeling the latter’s been asked to tone that down and focus on producing the same fetching defending style of Curry and Underhill). For me Wilson’s the only back row who performed adequately on Saturday - Billy was completely out of condition and whilst Curry tried his best, Watson completely outplayed him with the type of hard carrying performance so many see Curry as being capable of ( though I remain a sceptic and am starting to feel vindicated for sticking to my guns on this point )

Sticking to your guns, that Curry should play 7, and now you're saying he's been completely outplayed (and I believe previously said should be dropped for his performance) having played 7, rather than 6?

Why on earth are you worried about 6 and 7, of all things. Stop trying to say Curry isn't good because after Itoje, perhaps, he's guaranteed a spot in the squad for any fan with eyes.

I know I shouldn't bite but to hell with it. Players that are nailed on even after Saturday:

Marler
LCD
Sinckler
ITOJE AT LOCK
Launch
THOMAS CURRY LITERALLY ANYWHERE IN THE BACKROW BECAUSE HE IS EASILY ONE OF OUR BEST PLAYERS
Wilson
Ford
May
Slade (just about)

The sole Saracen is there because he actually looked alright. Others didn't play or saw no ball, or, were surprised when they actually saw the ball(backs obvs) and that probably helped their case more than hindered it.

Take the damn hint.

Obano
George
Stuart
Lawes
Itoje
Willis
Curry
Earl
Randall
Ford
May
Lawrence
Odogwu
Watson
Malins

Genge
LCD
Williams
Hill
Wilson
Robson
Slade
Daly

Jean-Baptiste Lafond, former France winger/fullback, who regularly comments on the Midi Olympique website, says that Eddie and the England team are "cuites" (cooked, or something that rhymes with cooked) and have been since the World Cup. Their game has become so predictable and players like Billy are past their best and others should be in retirement homes, and he seems to be looking forward to the French XV's visit to Twickenham next month! His comments are always a bit tongue in cheek but are generally spot on.
This 6N may well prove to be the final nail in Eddie's coffin, and with potentially tough matches in Cardiff and Dublin and France's visit in between, Eddie may already be looking for another job.

Certainly true that we havent been much cop since the WC. Although we've mostly won games, we've been far from convincing and have often only played for only a small part of the game. Sound defence and the odd brilliant moment has got us through. Truth is, we've gone backwards over the last year.
Too early to say whether this 6Ns will see the back of Jones. Difficult games ahead but the squad is not without ability and maybe losing as badly as we did will sharpen minds.
It does make the rest of this tournament quite fascinating.

France are going to rip us a new one...

Stom wrote:France are going to rip us a new one...

That much is very clear

We go through these cycles, as all teams do. Right now, we've become stale.

We need fresh talent in the side and some fresh ideas for our attacking game. That won't happen, or at the very least get integrated into the side, over night.

That means that this 6Ns could be fairly bleak. As long as we come out of it at the start of something good/new, so be it. I worry that we won't

Could the RFU afford to get rid of Jones and his staff even if they wanted to?
I also wouldn’t expect a knee jerk reaction. Eddie can point to the last 6N in which we were humped by Scotland and then point to the fact he then took the team to the World Cup final. I’d say he is with us for at least another 14 months (assuming a Lions depleted squad this summer).

TheNomad wrote:

Stom wrote:France are going to rip us a new one...

That much is very clear

We go through these cycles, as all teams do. Right now, we've become stale.

We need fresh talent in the side and some fresh ideas for our attacking game. That won't happen, or at the very least get integrated into the side, over night.

That means that this 6Ns could be fairly bleak. As long as we come out of it at the start of something good/new, so be it. I worry that we won't

Do you think that different players will make much difference if all of them are obliged to play by numbers? I agree that changes should help (especially dumping the out-of-touch Saracens) but I fear that any replacements are on a hiding to nothing.

A total change of mind-set/playing style is required. It seems to me that the only dominant character in the cosching set-up who might stand up to Jones is Mitchell and I'm not sure he isn't worse (in terms of negativity).

Mellsblue wrote:Could the RFU afford to get rid of Jones and his staff even if they wanted to?
I also wouldn’t expect a knee jerk reaction. Eddie can point to the last 6N in which we were humped by Scotland and then point to the fact he then took the team to the World Cup final. I’d say he is with us for at least another 14 months (assuming a Lions depleted squad this summer).

Fair question. In a way, the RFU are lucky that there are no crowds. Imagining the reaction from a full Twickenham to that garbage on Saturday, maybe a point is not far away when the RFU could not afford NOT to sack Jones.

He has previously insulted the intelligence of pundits questioning the team's style, especially the amount of kicking. I am not the technical expert on the game that many of you are, but it has seemed obvious to me that if you base tactics entirely on gifting possession to the opposition there will come a time when you lose badly in the manner of Saturday's defeat (which could very easily have been by a much bigger margin).

Should Jones be given time to change radically? Can Jones change radically? I wonder.

"Kyle Sinckler and Mako Vunipola have joined the 28-player tournament squad as England prepare for Saturday’s game against Italy at Twickenham Stadium (2.15pm KO).

Harry Williams and Tom West have returned to their clubs"

When was the last time Mako played?

Wasps will be glad to have West back!

fivepointer wrote:"Kyle Sinckler and Mako Vunipola have joined the 28-player tournament squad as England prepare for Saturday’s game against Italy at Twickenham Stadium (2.15pm KO).

Harry Williams and Tom West have returned to their clubs"

When was the last time Mako played?

Don't be silly! He plays for Saracens - he doesn't need any recent form or game practice!

Puja

Puja wrote:

fivepointer wrote:"Kyle Sinckler and Mako Vunipola have joined the 28-player tournament squad as England prepare for Saturday’s game against Italy at Twickenham Stadium (2.15pm KO).

Harry Williams and Tom West have returned to their clubs"

When was the last time Mako played?

Don't be silly! He plays for Saracens - he doesn't need any recent form or game practice!

Puja

Makes me wonder how the hell he managed to get himself injured. Maybe he tripped over his diet sheet.

He has to drop Farrell, Jamie George, Daly, Youngs and Wilson.

Throw in Ford, LCD, Malins, Robson and Willis.

There has been a really unappealing arrogance about this England side for some time and it came to a head against Scotland. There's this feeling (that I think comes from Farrell) that they're so good that they can play badly for 60 minutes against most teams but will be able to pull it out of the bag to win. Let's face it, had they had just a good 20 minutes against Scotland, they would've won. But instead, they got what they deserved.

It's not a 'good' sporting arrogance... Remember the sneering, barrel-chested, aggressive arrogance of so many great South African sides over the years... Well they generally played well too and at 100mph, unlike this England side.

We need to go back to basics, be humble, hard and make it a crime to kick the ball away in the opposition half unless it results in a try or it's a great kick to the corner.

Eddie needs to change things up pretty quickly. Even if he improves the situation over the next few games, I think we now know that this group as it is, are not going to become an all-conquering, great England team.

fivepointer wrote:"Kyle Sinckler and Mako Vunipola have joined the 28-player tournament squad as England prepare for Saturday’s game against Italy at Twickenham Stadium (2.15pm KO).

Harry Williams and Tom West have returned to their clubs"

When was the last time Mako played?

First good news for a while.

TheDasher wrote:He has to drop Farrell, Jamie George, Daly, Youngs and Wilson.

Throw in Ford, LCD, Malins, Robson and Willis.

There has been a really unappealing arrogance about this England side for some time and it came to a head against Scotland. There's this feeling (that I think comes from Farrell) that they're so good that they can play badly for 60 minutes against most teams but will be able to pull it out of the bag to win. Let's face it, had they had just a good 20 minutes against Scotland, they would've won. But instead, they got what they deserved.

It's not a 'good' sporting arrogance... Remember the sneering, barrel-chested, aggressive arrogance of so many great South African sides over the years... Well they generally played well too and at 100mph, unlike this England side.

We need to go back to basics, be humble, hard and make it a crime to kick the ball away in the opposition half unless it results in a try or it's a great kick to the corner.

Eddie needs to change things up pretty quickly. Even if he improves the situation over the next few games, I think we now know that this group as it is, are not going to become an all-conquering, great England team.

It’s always interesting for me on this one day a year that I don’t support England to see how they come across as a team and who feels like the biggest threat to a Scotland win.

For basically the entire second half I felt like England had already clawed back a score and gone ahead, despite never looking dominant. Hard to know if that’s more about Scotland losing so many winnable games at the death or England’s resolve to win games they shouldn’t.

It does seem like England expect to be able to stamp their mark on a game, and look a bit lost when they’re unable to. But is that not true of every side? This attitude of ‘if only we’d just bothered to be good, we would have won’ seems like it’s own kind of arrogance to be honest.

The way SA were talked about by English supporters after the final was incredible, as if it was England who dictated the way that game went.

I think a lot of other sides will look at that game and think Scotland failed to put many points on England, despite having so much possession etc in good positions. The problem is for most of us, is that they'll look at England and think that they were lucky to get any points!

To try and steer that slightly back on track, I feel like it hardly matters who England pick against Italy if there isn’t some shift in approach. They will probably win regardless of the team and tactics, which makes it worth very little in terms of morale.

I just desperately want to see a side who look like they are willing and able to adapt to what is in front of them.

Raggs wrote:I think a lot of other sides will look at that game and think Scotland failed to put many points on England, despite having so much possession etc in good positions. The problem is for most of us, is that they'll look at England and think that they were lucky to get any points!

Yep. England were just incredibly lucky Russell was having a bit of an off day, it makes him almost as impotent in attack as Farrell (on a good day).

Italy have a few good backs, and if they can manage not to drop the pill every time they are in the opposition 22, they could cause some of your fat rusty boys problems. I fear however, an 80 minute game of forceback is on the cards.

Do we know when our coaches are actually allowed back to train from quarantine?

Well, that sounds less than ideal. Who runs training? Farrell and Youngs?

twitchy wrote:Do we know when our coaches are actually allowed back to train from quarantine?

Fairly sure they've been available for quite a while now.