RugbyRebels

jimKRFC wrote:Well that
The final scrum: Having got what Borthwick, Wigglesworth and Genge wanted in Afoa back on we have the last drama. Afoa does Genge (as he did all first half), Leibenburg loses the ball out the side and Uren clears.

I think Borthwick lost his rag over the blatant time wasting as Bristol's forwards were out on their arse whilst Tigers were fired up. Tempest allowed the Bristol staff to piss about for an age. Lam changed his story in the end because he realised they were going down to 13 otherwise which is when Borthwick really lost it. Borthwick shouldn't have been in the opposition technical area and I suspect he will get a fine as well as Lam.

I think Borthwick was actually trying to press the 13 man outcome as with 8 in the scrum and the ability to stand Nadolo narrow to keep Bristol's defenders in tight it was an easier chance to get a try. Avoid the scrum if possible because as displayed the officials have a tendency to bottle making a decision. Had Uren tried that around the middle of the park there's no chance he'd have gotten away with it though Wigglesworth should have blocked him off and let him nowhere near it. Uren gambled and got away with it which is great scrum half play really.

Having watching it back I don't think Wigglesworth actually punches Afoa, he does judo throw him to the ground and shove his face into the turf though. Tom Young may be in more trouble after telling Tempest "you weren't fucking strong enough" to which Tempest asks which bit and Youngs replies "any of it". You can't be dropping f bombs at sir even if he should have gone under the posts several scrums before.

FKAS wrote:Having watching it back I don't think Wigglesworth actually punches Afoa, he does judo throw him to the ground and shove his face into the turf though. Tom Young may be in more trouble after telling Tempest "you weren't fucking strong enough" to which Tempest asks which bit and Youngs replies "any of it". You can't be dropping f bombs at sir even if he should have gone under the posts several scrums before.

Oh, there's definitely a good attempt at an elbow from Wigglesworth. Didn't hear the bit with Tom Youngs at all, but if that's the transcript then he needs a ban as well - you're spot on that you can't be saying that to the ref.

Wiggy would be no great loss for the Wasps game, but I'd prefer not to lose TYoungs though and we absolutely can't lose Genge. When are the RFU having a sit down with their biscuits about it?

Puja

It's at the end here.

Yes there's a fairly hefty use of the forearm by Wigglesworth, I think he might get away with that.

Genge is definitely the one we need available for Wasps. Hopefully we don't get Dickson and we can put a lot of pressure on Wasps scrum and rolling maul defence.

The stuff after the last scrum is just handbags. The suggestion that there were punches thrown is ludicrous. I could see Tom Youngs getting in a bit of bother though, as really not acceptable to talk to a ref like that.

Timbo wrote:The stuff after the last scrum is just handbags. The suggestion that there were punches thrown is ludicrous. I could see Tom Youngs getting in a bit of bother though, as really not acceptable to talk to a ref like that.

I think it looked worse in real time but on review there's not a great deal in it. Lots of open handed shoves and pushing.

Looks like TYoungs is getting away with his comments.

Not a particularly good look when put against what Sinckler received for directly comparible comments. It's even worse when taking into consideration that Sinkler's were in the heat of the moment, following a dangerous challenge.

16th man wrote:Looks like TYoungs is getting away with his comments.

Not a particularly good look when put against what Sinckler received for directly comparible comments. It's even worse when taking into consideration that Sinkler's were in the heat of the moment, following a dangerous challenge.

That is terrible. Disciplinary procedures are a joke - there is no way that Youngs should have been allowed to get away with talking to the ref like that and especially, as you said, in the context of them taking a hard line against Sinckler doing far less.

Puja

Hmm the disciplinary process is massively inconsistent you say, in other breaking news the sky is blue and bears crap in the woods.

The disciplinary process has been a farce for some time and is unlikely to improve in the near future.

FKAS wrote:Hmm the disciplinary process is massively inconsistent you say, in other breaking news the sky is blue and bears crap in the woods.

The disciplinary process has been a farce for some time and is unlikely to improve in the near future.

Now, we know that this is the case, and the unwillingness of the game to do anything about it is a joke to us, but an outside casual observer could be forgiven for looking at those 2 incidents and their protagonists, and coming to a very unflattering conclusion as to why one got a ban and the other hasn't even been admonished.

16th man wrote:

FKAS wrote:Hmm the disciplinary process is massively inconsistent you say, in other breaking news the sky is blue and bears crap in the woods.

The disciplinary process has been a farce for some time and is unlikely to improve in the near future.

Now, we know that this is the case, and the unwillingness of the game to do anything about it is a joke to us, but an outside casual observer could be forgiven for looking at those 2 incidents and their protagonists, and come to a very unflattering conclusion as to why one got a ban and the other hasn't even been admonished.

Wow. Hadn't even considered that - that's a very good (and highly unfortunate) point.

The only thing I can say in the RFU's defence is that Sinckler's was on broadcast television so they had to be seen to be doing something, whereas Youngs' was behind the scenes, as it were, so there wasn't any pressure on them to address it. Still, unflattering is not the word.

Puja

Puja wrote:

16th man wrote:

FKAS wrote:Hmm the disciplinary process is massively inconsistent you say, in other breaking news the sky is blue and bears crap in the woods.

The disciplinary process has been a farce for some time and is unlikely to improve in the near future.

Now, we know that this is the case, and the unwillingness of the game to do anything about it is a joke to us, but an outside casual observer could be forgiven for looking at those 2 incidents and their protagonists, and come to a very unflattering conclusion as to why one got a ban and the other hasn't even been admonished.

Wow. Hadn't even considered that - that's a very good (and highly unfortunate) point.

The only thing I can say in the RFU's defence is that Sinckler's was on broadcast television so they had to be seen to be doing something, whereas Youngs' was behind the scenes, as it were, so there wasn't any pressure on them to address it. Still, unflattering is not the word.

Puja

I'd say more deeply concerning. I suspect the lack of media attention is, however, the key point though. Sinckler's was mid game unavoidably audible and Youngs is only heard on a different feed to the one broadcast that has found a small viewing online.

The ongoing obsession with governing bodies with being seen to act when something attracts publicity rather than caring about the actual underlying problems is hardly a new problem, even just in sport where the ECB have gotten themselves into a right old muddle where 'my muslim friend is the bomb' precludes one from winning another cap, but that haircut makes you look like 'a 15 year old lesbian' doesn't. And they're paying themselves decent six figure salaries to come up with this crap

From those that didn't see it some of Martin's man marking job on Nathan Hughes.

Still (albeit for a week) 19...crazy. He'll be a good player won't he? As he bulks you'd have thought he'd move to lock, but he looks like he's got all the makings of an outstanding player

Him and Underhill in the same team will be ace. Bring Lawes on in the second half as well.

He's developing very nicely into a barnstorming player. He played like that at academy level but obviously it's a big step up to senior rugby. Work rate has always been outstanding but if he can add hits like that and some more carrying metres he'll be setting the bar high in terms of performance. Whether he can bulk out, play in the row and still be all action will be interesting to see, it'll be a bit more of an ask.

Tom Youngs won't play this weekend and will come before a disciplinary committee to explain comments to sir after the game Vs Bristol. I wish he was available but also you can't be dropping f bombs to sir so a ban is required.

FKAS wrote:Tom Youngs won't play this weekend and will come before a disciplinary committee to explain comments to sir after the game Vs Bristol. I wish he was available but also you can't be dropping f bombs to sir so a ban is required.

Not great news for Leicester, but good news for the game. Took the citing panel long enough!

Interesting to note that the citing panel isn't meeting till next Thursday (for some unknown reason) and Leicester have taken the proactive decision to stand him down before the decision is even made. Good and right response from the club, even if part of it is probably about trying to get his ban started early so he's ready for the start of next season.

Excellent and informative quote from Borthwick on the Leicester website:

Speaking about the decision to remove Youngs from selection for the away trip to the Ricoh Arena, Leicester Tigers Head Coach Steve Borthwick said: “We have made the decision to remove Tom from selection following the charge against him from last weekend‘s game against Bristol.”

Can always rely on Borthers for in-depth analysis!

Puja

Given our backrow stocks it might be better if he moves to lock. Really good physicality on show.

Raggs wrote:Given our backrow stocks it might be better if he moves to lock. Really good physicality on show.

For club level. In terms of test rugby he's doing that to a lad who was found wanting in the physicality stakes.

It's a decent start to a cub career, and he has a number of possible paths of progression, and it's not surprising he comes across as rather coltish in his play given he's only just starting out, and maybe it's not surprising when fans get excited, but there's a ways to go

Puja wrote:. Took the citing panel long enough!



Puja

We'll never find out but it would be interesting to know if they were just taking their own sweet time, or if they did need to have it shoved in front of them with a pointed look and a reminder of what they thought about this behaviour previously.

Digby wrote:

Raggs wrote:Given our backrow stocks it might be better if he moves to lock. Really good physicality on show.

For club level. In terms of test rugby he's doing that to a lad who was found wanting in the physicality stakes.

It's a decent start to a cub career, and he has a number of possible paths of progression, and it's not surprising he comes across as rather coltish in his play given he's only just starting out, and maybe it's not surprising when fans get excited, but there's a ways to go

He is doing that to someone who is noted as being a good carrier, especially at Premiership level. Hughes's main issue at international level has been a lack of workrate, plus a tendency to wander off mentally and carry like a weakling into Faf de Klerk. When he's paying attention and on the charge, he's a formidable opponent and it was quite good fun watching Martin shut him down.

Of course he's not the finished article, but he is a storming youngster like Itoje was in 2014 and we can only dream he follows the same trajectory.

Puja

Digby wrote:

Raggs wrote:Given our backrow stocks it might be better if he moves to lock. Really good physicality on show.

For club level. In terms of test rugby he's doing that to a lad who was found wanting in the physicality stakes.

Agree with Puja his lack of workrate was what stopped him at international level not the physicality. Bristol certainly paid big money to get him over from Wasps and he's been the go to option to get their pack on the front foot. It was a significant factor in the game at the weekend that Martin effectively man marked him out the game. An interesting tactic well executed by the young man, I particularly like the tackle style it's absolutely textbook. Here you go kids this is how you tackle, particularly note the leg drive after contact.

I can see some of the other play off contenders looking to emulate that tactic and force Bristol into kicking or playing off the cuff. Downside is they are pretty awesome off the cuff.

So who was the lad who looked a lot like Hughes who couldn't win contact playing for England? Didn't cut the mustard starting or off the bench, went by the name of Hughes if that helps

And no, Martin is not like Itoje was. I'd be thrilled if he does follow his career path from now on, but whilst I was sure Itoje would be a test success I'm nothing like as convinced when it comes to Martin, which tbh would be the norm, it's not like I looked at Tom Curry X years ago and thought yep, nailed on England starter, indeed had you asked me X years ago I'd have picked Ben as the more likely brother to forge a test career

Digby wrote:So who was the lad who looked a lot like Hughes who couldn't win contact playing for England? Didn't cut the mustard starting or off the bench, went by the name of Hughes if that helps

And no, Martin is not like Itoje was. I'd be thrilled if he does follow his career path from now on, but whilst I was sure Itoje would be a test success I'm nothing like as convinced when it comes to Martin, which tbh would be the norm, it's not like I looked at Tom Curry X years ago and thought yep, nailed on England starter, indeed had you asked me X years ago I'd have picked Ben as the more likely brother to forge a test career

You're probably thinking of the same guy, Hughes, who regularly did win contact playing for England when he was paying attention, but far too often carried in a lackadaisical fashion and got knocked backwards.

Puja

Seems to be some cherry picking on Martin's performance here. I seem to recall Hughes sticking him (think it was him) on his ass quite regularly.

Shows the power of fan bias I suppose...