RugbyRebels

Scrumhead wrote:Above all, I can’t stand this ‘redemption’ angle for Saracens that keeps being pushed in the media/commentary. Their crimes were entirely pre-meditated, the punishment was minimal and they made/make no apologies for it.

Same. The commentators keep talking up how incredible it is that they've come from the Championship to the Premiership final, like they were relegated on performance and this is a rebuilding job, as opposed to them just losing some squad depth.

Mikey Brown wrote:Not that it matters now, but anyone able to actually make any sense of this scuffle at the time?



I assumed it was Symons just losing his head (it’s been a while but he has previous) but it does actually look more like intervening on Farrell here. Just a horrible game.

I don't get the OP's point. I've tried zooming in and, to me, it looks like the arm that's giving a double pump there has a white sleeve with a red band - looks like Symons all the way. Is there something I'm missing?

ETA. Just gone frame by frame and it does look as if the first swing is Farrell's arm. However, it's far from clear if it's a punch or an aggressive grab at the Quins player, whereas Symons is definitely a punch. Doesn't seem like much of a smoking gun to me.

Puja

Part of me dislikes sarries gamesmanship and part of me enjoys it. It may seem childish but they know exactly how to wind people up and change the momentum of the game. On the face of it, it shouldn't work against experienced international players.

Puja wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Above all, I can’t stand this ‘redemption’ angle for Saracens that keeps being pushed in the media/commentary. Their crimes were entirely pre-meditated, the punishment was minimal and they made/make no apologies for it.

Same. The commentators keep talking up how incredible it is that they've come from the Championship to the Premiership final, like they were relegated on performance and this is a rebuilding job, as opposed to them just losing some squad depth.

Mikey Brown wrote:Not that it matters now, but anyone able to actually make any sense of this scuffle at the time?



I assumed it was Symons just losing his head (it’s been a while but he has previous) but it does actually look more like intervening on Farrell here. Just a horrible game.

I don't get the OP's point. I've tried zooming in and, to me, it looks like the arm that's giving a double pump there has a white sleeve with a red band - looks like Symons all the way. Is there something I'm missing?

ETA. Just gone frame by frame and it does look as if the first swing is Farrell's arm. However, it's far from clear if it's a punch or an aggressive grab at the Quins player, whereas Symons is definitely a punch. Doesn't seem like much of a smoking gun to me.

Puja

Looks like a Symons punch all day, doubly so given the blood on that side of Farrell's face afterwards and the cut near his eye. We need the angle from the other side really. There might well be other things kicking off as well mind.

Very niggly game, Quins were clearly frustrated by their own (many) errors and Sarries were happy to add fuel to the fire and ensure they lost their heads.

What's the betting that the citing commissioner reports nothing for the entire game?

FKAS wrote:

What's the betting that the citing commissioner reports nothing for the entire game?

So that’s what Joe was so pissed about. Never seen him needing to be told to back off by a ref before, but it’s fair for him to wonder how that was missed.

No chance is Farrell getting a ban though.

I wouldn’t be so sure. A punch as blatant as that caught on camera will surely be a citing.

On the Symons one, I’m genuinely not sure whose arm it is. On the first few viewings I thought it was definitely Symons, but now I think it could actually be Farrell’s then Symons. As Puja says, you can see the red on the shirt on the second swing, but the first does seem to be Farrell aiming for the back of Northmore’s head.

Scrumhead wrote:I wouldn’t be so sure. A punch as blatant as that caught on camera will surely be a citing.

On the Symons one, I’m genuinely not sure whose arm it is. On the first few viewings I thought it was definitely Symons, but now I think it could actually be Farrell’s then Symons. As Puja says, you can see the red on the shirt on the second swing, but the first does seem to be Farrell aiming for the back of Northmore’s head.

The twitter person includes a still further down the thread which does suggest a Fazlet punch just before the Symons one:


Also, I am willing to bet you money that the one on Marchant will not be cited. It wasn't picked up in commentary or as a cause celebre by a pundit, so it will be swept under the rug.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:I wouldn’t be so sure. A punch as blatant as that caught on camera will surely be a citing.

On the Symons one, I’m genuinely not sure whose arm it is. On the first few viewings I thought it was definitely Symons, but now I think it could actually be Farrell’s then Symons. As Puja says, you can see the red on the shirt on the second swing, but the first does seem to be Farrell aiming for the back of Northmore’s head.

The twitter person includes a still further down the thread which does suggest a Fazlet punch just before the Symons one:


Also, I am willing to bet you money that the one on Marchant will not be cited. It wasn't picked up in commentary or as a cause celebre by a pundit, so it will be swept under the rug.

Puja

I am certainly not fond of Farrell, but to be honest, that still shot shows no evidence of a punch. Just his right arm dangling out to the side. Not saying he did or didn't, just that that's useless evidence (or no evidence at all.)

Spiffy wrote:

Puja wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:I wouldn’t be so sure. A punch as blatant as that caught on camera will surely be a citing.

On the Symons one, I’m genuinely not sure whose arm it is. On the first few viewings I thought it was definitely Symons, but now I think it could actually be Farrell’s then Symons. As Puja says, you can see the red on the shirt on the second swing, but the first does seem to be Farrell aiming for the back of Northmore’s head.

The twitter person includes a still further down the thread which does suggest a Fazlet punch just before the Symons one:


Also, I am willing to bet you money that the one on Marchant will not be cited. It wasn't picked up in commentary or as a cause celebre by a pundit, so it will be swept under the rug.

Puja

I am certainly not fond of Farrell, but to be honest, that still shot shows no evidence of a punch. Just his right arm dangling out to the side. Not saying he did or didn't, just that that's useless evidence (or no evidence at all.)

It's useful to show that it's not Symon's arm flailing twice, that once it's Farrell's. If you go through it frame-by-frame by spamming play/pause, then you can see he definitely does swing that arm, but it's impossible to tell if it's a punch or an enthusiastic grab.

The one on Marchant, however, is absolutely cut and dried.

Puja

lol

That is an absolute joke. Farrell should be punished for at least one blatant incident of foul play.

This solves the problem of there being no genuine alternatives at 12 for the Australia tour. A six week ban (probably what he’d have got) would have ruled him out.

Ultimately, I strongly suspect that the RFU will not want to draw attention to their captain punching opponents on the field. As Puja says, it doesn’t seem to have been picked up by any major news outlets so they’ll likely ignore it.

I can’t say I’m surprised.

Good old citing process. Absolute shit show as normal.

Farrell on Marchant was open handed, so not a punch.

Timbo wrote:Farrell on Marchant was open handed, so not a punch.

The video made it look awfully knuckly for an open hand. I'd imagine they reached out to Marchant though and he told them the gospel truth that the England captain, potential centre partner, and massive impact on selection, definitely did not punch him with a closed fist right before an international tour.

Puja

That left hand right at the end of the clip by Farrell is a definite closed fist. The two from the right could be argued as trying to get Marchant off of him, can't see if they are closed fist or not.

Timbo wrote:Farrell on Marchant was open handed, so not a punch.

What ? A bitch slap ? Even worse than a punch !

Puja wrote:

Timbo wrote:Farrell on Marchant was open handed, so not a punch.

The video made it look awfully knuckly for an open hand. I'd imagine they reached out to Marchant though and he told them the gospel truth that the England captain, potential centre partner, and massive impact on selection, definitely did not punch him with a closed fist right before an international tour.

Puja

Yeah, I'm struggling to see how that was an open hand.

100% a closed fist. Not even debatable.