RugbyRebels

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:00 pm

Stom wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:56 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:54 pm

If the vote is effectively being fixed then the system is almost irrelevant. On paper, Russia is a democracy but I think most of us would agree that it isnt in practice.

I don't think the Hungarian system is as bad as that. It's more like the American system in red states...which says a lot about American democracy - it isn't.

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting that Hungary is as bad as Russia, just that on paper anything can look democratic until you take note of how its being managed.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:17 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:00 pm

Stom wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:56 pm

I don't think the Hungarian system is as bad as that. It's more like the American system in red states...which says a lot about American democracy - it isn't.

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting that Hungary is as bad as Russia, just that on paper anything can look democratic until you take note of how its being managed.

Hang on a minute. Are you trying to tell me the referendums in eastern Ukraine weren’t democratic!

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 1:34 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 1:29 pm

UKHamlet wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 1:17 pm

FPTP chose the members of this government and enabled the 80 seat majority that allowed the governing party to impose it. The salient point for me is FPTP isn't democratic. PR is.

The Conservative Party members chose this PM, sadly, and she chose this government.
I disagree with your salient point, as did thousands of Lib Dem voters in 2010.

Ironically, a fair chunk of those Lib Dem voters only voted for them in 2010 because FPtP meant they had to vote tactically rather than for who they wanted.

Puja

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:39 pm As we're talking about overhauls - I have my ideas; though absolutely not fully thought through...

I'd Federalise England into 4 regions, with their own devolved parliaments, in Wessex (Bristol / Winchester), Mercia + E.Anglia (Birmingham / Tamworth), Northumbria (Manchester / Durham) and London (bound by M25).
Those 4 plus the 3 Celtic parliaments all to have the same powers as each other (notably more than Hollyrood currently has).

NZ-style compromise of constituent and PR voting for the devolved parliaments.

Those devolved parliaments nominate proportionately from within themselves (proportionately) to Westminster and a smaller, national HoC; government explicitly not made up from 1 party.
Revamp the HoL to be the elite / sinecure for the highest representative of their trade - to serve 1 lengthy term who act as advisors, as well as check and balance on the government of the day - for tradition's sake, I'm happy enough to call them all Lords and Ladies (and to keep the title after their term is up - but no longer sit there, and not to hand it down to their kids). So yes, HoL will still have the odd politician, bishop and celebrity, but an equal number of top barristers, accountants, generals, teachers and medics etc.
The explicit purpose of the HoL would be their collection of expertise covering every field, and they should mostly be there to advise the HoC; and only to shoot down unconstitutional* legislation.


*Yes, I'd have a written constitution; explicitly to be revised every 100 years or so; and explicitly requiring national referenda on any changes - dealt with much more like the Good Friday Agreement, than the Brexit "debate".

Donny osmond wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:28 am I see not a single redeeming feature in that voting system.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:23 am

Donny osmond wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:28 am I see not a single redeeming feature in that voting system.

Blimey. God bless the internet again. Where black is black, white is white and there isn’t anything in between.

Donny osmond wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:29 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:23 am

Donny osmond wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:28 am I see not a single redeeming feature in that voting system.

Blimey. God bless the internet again. Where black is black, white is white and there isn’t anything in between.

Sorry, I know you're a fan, but you have failed to persuade me. Maybe try that?

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:36 am

Donny osmond wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:29 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:23 am
Blimey. God bless the internet again. Where black is black, white is white and there isn’t anything in between.

Sorry, I know you're a fan, but you have failed to persuade me. Maybe try that?

I’d suggest you’re unpersuadable if you do not see a single redeeming feature.

Stom wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:22 pm

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:00 pm

Stom wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:56 pm

I don't think the Hungarian system is as bad as that. It's more like the American system in red states...which says a lot about American democracy - it isn't.

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting that Hungary is as bad as Russia, just that on paper anything can look democratic until you take note of how its being managed.

Oh, I'm not defending Hungary. More taking a swipe at America. It stinks.

Donny osmond wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:55 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:36 am

Donny osmond wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:29 am

Sorry, I know you're a fan, but you have failed to persuade me. Maybe try that?

I’d suggest you’re unpersuadable if you do not see a single redeeming feature.

god bless the internet indeed