RugbyRebels

To honest if it results in Nowell not running out at 5.30 then I struggle to find a downside. Slade has certainly shown enough to start….. though could be instead of Manu

Agree ref George and an anger fuelled Genge from the bench could inspire. Just worry about Mako.

Charlie Morgan makes a very similar argument to me on Slade: https://12ft.io/proxy?ref=&q=https://ww ... ated-year/

Puja

Great article that. Manu could be benched

If SA pick a lock at 6 is the correct reaction from Jones doing the same? Thinking defensively/negatively would mean going that route obviously. However, any degree of innovation/positivity with winning in mind, suggests reacting with pace and mobility, perhaps?

p/d wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:46 pm Great article that. Manu could be benched

Let's face it, based on his AI performances so far, he should be. That probably means Jones will dump Smith, move Farrell to 10 and start Tuilagi at 12. Picking from this squad, is that such a bad idea, mind?

I suspect the Smith-Farrell axis will remain. There were signs that it is bedding in and Smith had a good game against NZ. Manu could be dropped. So far he's not produced much and Slade has looked lively and inventive.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:02 am

p/d wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:46 pm Great article that. Manu could be benched

Let's face it, based on his AI performances so far, he should be. That probably means Jones will dump Smith, move Farrell to 10 and start Tuilagi at 12. Picking from this squad, is that such a bad idea, mind?

I just wish we 'knew' our best back line and stuck with it (injuries aside, of course), not a back line that we hope will work.Too much tinkering worrying about the opposition rather than the same chaps adapting accordingly.

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:19 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:02 am

p/d wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:46 pm Great article that. Manu could be benched

Let's face it, based on his AI performances so far, he should be. That probably means Jones will dump Smith, move Farrell to 10 and start Tuilagi at 12. Picking from this squad, is that such a bad idea, mind?

I just wish we 'knew' our best back line and stuck with it (injuries aside, of course), not a back line that we hope will work.Too much tinkering worrying about the opposition rather than the same chaps adapting accordingly.

Would that hold true if we/Jones ‘knew’ our best backline were:
Youngs
Farrell
Coka
Tuilagi
Porter
Nowell
Steward
???

15. Freddie Steward
14. Tommy Freeman
13. Manu Tuilagi
12. Owen Farrell (C)
11. Jonny May
10. Marcus Smith
9. Jack van Poortvliet
1. Mako Vunipola
2. Jamie George
3. Kyle Sinckler
4. Maro Itoje
5. Jonny Hill
6. Alex Coles
7. Tom Curry
8. Billy Vunipola

Finishers
16. Luke Cowan-Dickie
17. Ellis Genge
18. Will Stuart
19. David Ribbans
20. Sam Simmonds
21. Ben Youngs
22. Henry Slade
23. Jack Nowell

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:05 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:53 pm Mail suggesting Mako and George to start. JVP keeping his shirt and a surprise start for Slade at fb

I can... kinda see some of the logic there? George is a stronger lineout thrower and Genge has been below his best this autumn, so putting him on the bench might result in a 30 minute superhuman appearance fuelled solely by anger. Could be Proudfoot adopting the Bomb Squad theory for England of bringing on stronger scrummagers in the second half? Idk.

On Slade, the three distributors thing was a major part of our last 10 minutes. It's an awful lot to pin on just 10 minutes of it working, but it did work *really* well for that time period. It's not the route I'd be going down, but I'm kinda intrigued to see if it'll work for a whole match.

ETA. If Slade to 15 means no Nowell, I am 100% here for it. If it means no May and a Steward/Nowell wing combo, we riot.

Puja

It's worth noting that the final 10 mins did see us revert to the three centre approach Eddie trialled last Autumn with Porter doing the Manu on the wing stint. I wonder if we'll go back to that but against SA would be an ask of Steward to cover so much backfield (England already play with him alone back there quite a bit) and the SA bombs coming down with their strong chase.

Last week's display from Smith was what we've largely been hoping for, for all of 2022. Be very odd to drop him now particularly when the combination of him and Farrell seemed to be working nicely.

I quite like the bomb squad idea for England.

fivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:17 am 15. Freddie Steward
14. Tommy Freeman
13. Manu Tuilagi
12. Owen Farrell (C)
11. Jonny May
10. Marcus Smith
9. Jack van Poortvliet
1. Mako Vunipola
2. Jamie George
3. Kyle Sinckler
4. Maro Itoje
5. Jonny Hill
6. Alex Coles
7. Tom Curry
8. Billy Vunipola

Finishers
16. Luke Cowan-Dickie
17. Ellis Genge
18. Will Stuart
19. David Ribbans
20. Sam Simmonds
21. Ben Youngs
22. Henry Slade
23. Jack Nowell

Sweet Tigers will actually have two centres for the game Vs LI.

Feel sorry for Ribbans otherwise this is more like it.

fivepointer wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:17 am 15. Freddie Steward
14. Tommy Freeman
13. Manu Tuilagi
12. Owen Farrell (C)
11. Jonny May
10. Marcus Smith
9. Jack van Poortvliet
1. Mako Vunipola
2. Jamie George
3. Kyle Sinckler
4. Maro Itoje
5. Jonny Hill
6. Alex Coles
7. Tom Curry
8. Billy Vunipola

Finishers
16. Luke Cowan-Dickie
17. Ellis Genge
18. Will Stuart
19. David Ribbans
20. Sam Simmonds
21. Ben Youngs
22. Henry Slade
23. Jack Nowell

I mean that's not too bad?

Shame for Ribbans but at least have a guy at 6 who is currently playing 6 for his club. That's something. Some pace on the wings. Some faith put in JVP. George back. Nowell to provide leadership from the bench. Porter dropped after his best performance yet, obviously.

If Mako can hold up the scrum, Billy can hold on to the ball and Tuilagi can get involved in attack that could be a very good side. Some real impact available on the bench too.

Thats a better side. Genge a little hard done by, Ribbans unlucky. Good that JVP starts and we have a 5:3 bench. Coles a good call at 6 for this game. Hill needs to find some form and Tuilagi needs to offer something too.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:27 am


I mean that's not too bad?

Shame for Ribbans but at least have a guy at 6 who is currently playing 6 for his club. That's something. Some pace on the wings. Some faith put in JVP. George back. Nowell to provide leadership from the bench. Porter dropped after his best performance yet, obviously.

If Mako can hold up the scrum, Billy can hold on to the ball and Tuilagi can get involved in attack that could be a very good side. Some real impact available on the bench too.

This. Absolutely over the moon Freeman starts and, as you say, the bench now has genuine leadership

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:38 am the bench now has genuine leadership

yup, both VC's re-aligned to steer the finishing phase of the match
from there..

Happy with that.

Now, it's all on the result. Can the preparation match the selection?

I don't know whether I've just been conditioned to have low standards and expectations, but I kinda love that. I was resigned to Itoje at 6, Youngs at 9, Nowell at 14, that it feels a bit like Christmas to have Coles, JVP, and Freeman. Granted, I'd still prefer Willis there, but Coles is at least a regular Premiership 6 and at least we're not trying to pretend that Hill/Ribbans/Itoje is a balanced combination that wouldn't just see Curry run off his feet.

Having May and Freeman on the wings makes such a difference to the balance of the backline, compared to Cokanasiga and Nowell from the start of the AIs. The difference in threat and pace is just night and day - let's hope we actually use them well though.

Puja

I... like that.
Playing Mako is... the only decision I can disagree with.

Even the lack of Jack is... fine, given Coles starting and Simmonds on the bench

Astonished, astonished I tell ya, that JVP starts. Happy with Ribbans on the bench, too much to hope he would actually start. Coles to 6 was obvious but not a done deal given it’s Eddie. I can cope with that selection, one of the least mad picks recently. Hopefully Nowell will just gradually start fading into the background now.

Just the Willis thing I can’t get past…

Beasties wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:47 pm Hopefully Nowell will just gradually start fading into the background now.

Doubt he’d do it speedily…

I'm genuinely terrified that Mako is going to get turned inside out and upside down, if he is he may not feature in the six nations, really hope I'm wrong though. I think Genge was incredibly unlucky with the ref last week, so hope he can out bomb squad the bomb squad when he comes on angry and fresh with 30 to go.

I like keeping JvP in, dropping him to the bench would have been counterproductive especially as he needs as much game time as possible before the world cup.

Haven’t seen any of Coles. Any good?

Surprised by Ribbans on bench. Every time he’s played he’s looked the real deal to me.

ad_tigger wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:37 pm
I like keeping JvP in, dropping him to the bench would have been counterproductive especially as he needs as much game time as possible before the world cup.

Agreed

ad_tigger wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:37 pm I'm genuinely terrified that Mako is going to get turned inside out and upside down, if he is he may not feature in the six nations, really hope I'm wrong though. I think Genge was incredibly unlucky with the ref last week, so hope he can out bomb squad the bomb squad when he comes on angry and fresh with 30 to go.

I like keeping JvP in, dropping him to the bench would have been counterproductive especially as he needs as much game time as possible before the world cup.

Feel same re Mako…