RugbyRebels

Great work by the forwards and we ruin it with an unsupported carry

And after 30 minutes of not having to do that much, Ireland score the bonus point.

Second half has been far
More even, but we have continually screwed up when I’m promising situations

Spoke too soon!

Gatland must work on forward basics and discipline.

Wales - 30 minutes of pressure - 7 points
Ireland - 3 minutes of pressure - 7 points

That sums up up. 11 phases of turgidness and give away a penalty

Good effort Cuthbert at the end there, that was a certain try

We we drew the second half. More composure and we could have added a few more points but Ireland were magnificent and you can see why they’re top of the pile.

Fucking dire

normanski wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 3:19 pm I blame the WRU for this debacle.

Well they've spent the best part of £1m to get rid of our coaches and bring in this lot. Spectacular work by our new defence coach.

Time for a clear out.

Biggar, AWJ and Tips need to go. Not sure about Ken. And North! looks like a fish out of water.

We need to start with Webb.

UKHamlet wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:16 pm Time for a clear out.

Biggar, AWJ and Tips need to go. Not sure about Ken. And North! looks like a fish out of water.

We need to start with Webb.

Think we need to look to the future now

UKHamlet wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:16 pm Time for a clear out.

Biggar, AWJ and Tips need to go. Not sure about Ken. And North! looks like a fish out of water.

We need to start with Webb.

Ken did hit 19 tackles with just 1 miss.

Buggaluggs wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:24 pm

UKHamlet wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:16 pm Time for a clear out.

Biggar, AWJ and Tips need to go. Not sure about Ken. And North! looks like a fish out of water.

We need to start with Webb.

Ken did hit 19 tackles with just 1 miss.

Which is why I'm not sure. He is getting on though.

Thought Owens was alright. AWJ a bit anonymous and it wasn’t clear at times of Tips was playing. Even Faletau wasn’t his normal self.

Beard was busier than normal but kept giving away penalties. Francis looked like he was jogging after the first ten.

Line speed was awful in the first half but better afterwards.

Second half was better but still very frustrating. We have got to sort out scrums and lineouts for next week. And discipline, some very soft penalties in there.

Morgan, Hawkins and Dyer all made mistakes but they were visible and did more positive than negative. Webb looked tidy when he came on and so did Owen Williams. Carre caught the eye on his arrival and Baldwin was alright.

Gatland has no time at all to sort this mess out and too many players are at the end of their careers and should have gone already.

Worst result vs Ireland since 2006. I'd say the only way is up after this but there's great potential for worse next week.

Tackles and missed tackles:

WALES Tackles Missed tackles
L WilliamsFB 2 3
J AdamsW 6 0
G NorthC 5 3
J HawkinsC 8 4
R DyerW 4 0
D BiggarFH 9 2
T WilliamsSH 7 1
G ThomasP 14 0
K OwensH 19 1
T FrancisP 12 1
A BeardL 14 2
A JonesL 14 1
J MorganFL 20 4
J TipuricFL 14 0
T FaletauN8 19 3
S BaldwinR 2 1
R CarréR 4 3
D LewisR 8 2
D JenkinsR 4 1
T ReffellR 8 2
R WebbR 3 0
O WilliamsR 1 0
A CuthbertR 3 0

34 missed in total (compared with 17 for Ireland). The other big stat in their favour was 14 turnovers won to our 7. Otherwise the stats are fairly similar (even the penalty count by the end - 15 for us 13 for them).

Poor tackling from our centres and FB (North missed 3, Hawkins 4, Sanjay 3).. Surprisingly bad from Jac Morgan and Faletau (4 and 3), but they did make a lot of tackles (20 and 19). Tips tackled a little less (14) but missed 0. Even Reffell missed 2 in the time he was on. Carre was also poor - 4 made, 3 missed.

https://www.espn.com/rugby/playerstats? ... gue=180659

Also our tackles were often too weak and allowed Irish players to make easy yards and build momentum.

Our line speed improved in the second half but it needs to step up a gear agin for next week.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:03 pm Also our tackles were often too weak and allowed Irish players to make easy yards and build momentum.

Our line speed improved in the second half but it needs to step up a gear agin for next week.

This was fatal when they got in our 22. It was practically a guaranteed try for them.

The story couldn't have been more different for us in their 22.

But this isn't new - we've always struggled to battle through the last 1m, in the regional and national teams.

It’s hard to see through the gloom of a significant loss but there were a few bright spots.

Trying too hard in attack gave away an interception try against what was then the run of play.

Dyer will learn that his first instinct as he chases the ball towards the line is to dive and secure the ball even if he comes up short. I couldn’t see Adams wasting that great opportunity and it could have swung the momentum in the game to our favour even though Ireland would have still run out comfortable winners.

Gatland has a week to tune the side for what’s likely to be another uncomfortable afternoon in Scotland.

Will he stick largely with this team, giving them a chance for redemption or will he start the process of blooding the youngsters sooner than planned.

I certainly think we missed someone with real dog in the back row yesterday - someone like Moriarty or even Wainwright to bring a bit of abrasion to the tackle area.

An interesting conundrum for Gatland and the coaches.

It could have been worse.

We got an education from a very well organised and disciplined Irish side. I am surprised to find myself agreeing with Gatland's after game comments. There are lots of potentially fixable problems, like giving away loads of stupid penalties. This used to be one of our strengths, now it is a major weakness.

It is a general rule for new management to demonstrate weaknesses before rectifying them, so Gatland has got a lot of scope for this! But he does not have much time. He also needs information about players he does not know under international conditions. We are not going to win the 6N, so I hope there are a number of changes before the next game. It is not as if we have a good settled team who just need another chance. At some stage some risky selections must be tried. Away to Scotland seems to be a good time to do this.

.

I'm usually of the opinion that the point of the 6N is to win it, and all else should be secondary.

But it's plain stupid to waste the chance to start rebuilding here, just for some fanciful notion of "still being in it". We are not in it. We have 0 points. Three away games and we'll have to get four tries in all of them, even if Ireland somehow manage to lose a game. Oh, and beat England too.

So I was disheartened to hear Jamie Roberts on ScrumV opining "there's still a tournament to win". At some point we have to say it's just not worth holding back the careers of some promising kids in the vain hope that Dad's Army can somehow throw a run of double-sixes. Get some youngsters on the pitch and see what they can do.

Sourdust wrote: ↑Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:00 pm I'm usually of the opinion that the point of the 6N is to win it, and all else should be secondary.

But it's plain stupid to waste the chance to start rebuilding here, just for some fanciful notion of "still being in it". We are not in it. We have 0 points. Three away games and we'll have to get four tries in all of them, even if Ireland somehow manage to lose a game. Oh, and beat England too.

So I was disheartened to hear Jamie Roberts on ScrumV opining "there's still a tournament to win". At some point we have to say it's just not worth holding back the careers of some promising kids in the vain hope that Dad's Army can somehow throw a run of double-sixes. Get some youngsters on the pitch and see what they can do.

Realistically were not going to win it but there's money riding on whatever position we end up in. We need to be sensible, but otherwise I agree that we need to see what the young guys can do (without throwing them all on at once!).

We are very close to the world cup and we want to be playing our best players there, whether they're young or old. So I would concentrate on the players who are already playing well for their regions and can realistically develop into our best players this year.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:25 pm

Sourdust wrote: ↑Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:00 pm I'm usually of the opinion that the point of the 6N is to win it, and all else should be secondary.

But it's plain stupid to waste the chance to start rebuilding here, just for some fanciful notion of "still being in it". We are not in it. We have 0 points. Three away games and we'll have to get four tries in all of them, even if Ireland somehow manage to lose a game. Oh, and beat England too.

So I was disheartened to hear Jamie Roberts on ScrumV opining "there's still a tournament to win". At some point we have to say it's just not worth holding back the careers of some promising kids in the vain hope that Dad's Army can somehow throw a run of double-sixes. Get some youngsters on the pitch and see what they can do.

Realistically were not going to win it but there's money riding on whatever position we end up in. We need to be sensible, but otherwise I agree that we need to see what the young guys can do (without throwing them all on at once!).

We are very close to the world cup and we want to be playing our best players there, whether they're young or old. So I would concentrate on the players who are already playing well for their regions and can realistically develop into our best players this year.

I'm all for trying out new players, but I agree that they need to be players who are ready now. I want to remain competitive because even if we can't win the 6N then getting stuffed is a destroyer of confidence so there has to be a blend. if Ken Owens is our best hooker then so be it, regardless of his age. But where we have genuine competition we should look at players who can play a higher paced game than some of the older contingent.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2023 12:44 pm
I'm all for trying out new players, but I agree that they need to be players who are ready now. I want to remain competitive because even if we can't win the 6N then getting stuffed is a destroyer of confidence so there has to be a blend. if Ken Owens is our best hooker then so be it, regardless of his age. But where we have genuine competition we should look at players who can play a higher paced game than some of the older contingent.

IMO our best hooker by a distance is Lake, but he's (a) dead and (b) arguably still more effective as an impact sub on 50 min.

I agree though, I'm not suggesting an entirely new 15; rather that where there is a genuine choice between an 80-cap vet and a 3-cap prospect, we err on the latter's side. I don't think ANY of the old guard are genuinely so far past it that they can never play for Wales again. We'll still need a tranche of them at the RWC. But senior players who have nothing left to prove (Biggar, North, Sanjay, Tips, Faletau) should be just treading water until the autumn IMO, with new blood like Rhys Davies, Tshiunza, Carre, O & K Williams, & Grady filtered in over the next few games, so that as many of them as possible are experienced internationals come September.