Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 7:53 am
I don’t know why they see J Willy as fourth choice flanker.
Because he's not played that well so far? Hasn't had many minutes to be fair to him but he's the least rounded of the four openside style flankers in the squad. He's a tackle machine that is good over the breakdown, though not at international level, his carrying game is behind the others. Unpopular opinion but I'd have him down the pecking order as well, there's been no stand out performances in either the 6N or summer series that makes him undroppable and post world cup he's unavailable to England so there's not a lot of point trying to play him into form with a view to being good for his development ahead of the 6N.
Similar with Ribbans. He's either in incredible form and therefore selected or he sits behind the other guys as developing them will benefit England moving forwards.
This, Willis and Willis seem to another example of "bring X in to solve problems" without much basis. Hopefully J Willis grows into international level but he clearly isn't someone who is immediately dominant. Few are.
I suppose the problem to solve here is to replace the banned 7. If the journo in The Times is correct, we’re moving a bloke who has looked good at 8 to 7 and playing a 6 at 8, who has looked fairly good at best and certainly not dominant in 21 caps, rather than leaving Earl at 8 and bringing in an out and out 7 who has just helped a team win the Beuclier de Brennus and has set records for turnovers in the Prem.
I know whose ceiling is higher. I know who I’d rather gather more experience. And you’d hope that Seriously Brokennose must be confident of beating Japan with either so why move 2 out of 3 of the backrow when you could just replace as close as like to like as we have.
Last edited by Mellsblue on Fri Sep 15, 2023 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 7:53 am
I don’t know why they see J Willy as fourth choice flanker.
Because he's not played that well so far? Hasn't had many minutes to be fair to him but he's the least rounded of the four openside style flankers in the squad. He's a tackle machine that is good over the breakdown, though not at international level, his carrying game is behind the others. Unpopular opinion but I'd have him down the pecking order as well, there's been no stand out performances in either the 6N or summer series that makes him undroppable and post world cup he's unavailable to England so there's not a lot of point trying to play him into form with a view to being good for his development ahead of the 6N.
Similar with Ribbans. He's either in incredible form and therefore selected or he sits behind the other guys as developing them will benefit England moving forwards.
The comparison between Ribbans and Willis is laughable. Beyond both being in the Top14 there is no comparison whatsoever.
There’s no standout performance from Ludlum to make him undroppable…
I hope Borthwick is planning beyond the next 6N. Sack him on 29th Oct if he’s not.
Last edited by Mellsblue on Fri Sep 15, 2023 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Replacements: Dan, Genge, Stuart, Martin, Vunipola, Youngs, Smith, Lawrence.
Slightly odd having Billy on the bench tbh..clearly want some miles in his legs. Ludlam at 8 will have JNGF salivating or summat- but its not a real test.
Replacements: Dan, Genge, Stuart, Martin, Vunipola, Youngs, Smith, Lawrence.
Slightly odd having Billy on the bench tbh..clearly want some miles in his legs. Ludlam at 8 will have JNGF salivating or summat- but its not a real test.
I'm glad we've not lumped Billy back in - I really don't think he works in the same back row as Lawes and we look better with two flankers accompanying one or the other.
Replacements: Dan, Genge, Stuart, Martin, Vunipola, Youngs, Smith, Lawrence.
Slightly odd having Billy on the bench tbh..clearly want some miles in his legs. Ludlam at 8 will have JNGF salivating or summat- but its not a real test.
I'm glad we've not lumped Billy back in - I really don't think he works in the same back row as Lawes and we look better with two flankers accompanying one or the other.
Puja
I'd have stuck with Earl at 8, he looks like he can cope at the scrum well there (and yes, that is important going forward) and either given Ludlam or Willis a go there.
I wasn't saying it was odd Billy was on the bench to be clear, odd he's in the matchday squad- he's looked a busted flush, sadly.
Last edited by Banquo on Fri Sep 15, 2023 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 7:53 am
I don’t know why they see J Willy as fourth choice flanker.
Because he's not played that well so far? Hasn't had many minutes to be fair to him but he's the least rounded of the four openside style flankers in the squad. He's a tackle machine that is good over the breakdown, though not at international level, his carrying game is behind the others. Unpopular opinion but I'd have him down the pecking order as well, there's been no stand out performances in either the 6N or summer series that makes him undroppable and post world cup he's unavailable to England so there's not a lot of point trying to play him into form with a view to being good for his development ahead of the 6N.
Similar with Ribbans. He's either in incredible form and therefore selected or he sits behind the other guys as developing them will benefit England moving forwards.
The comparison between Ribbans and Willis is laughable. Beyond both being in the Top14 there is no comparison whatsoever.
There’s no standout performance from Ludlum to make him undroppable…
I hope Borthwick is planning beyond the next 6N. Sack him on 29th Oct if he’s not.
As I read it, @FKAS wasn’t comparing Ribbans and Willis as players - he was simply saying their situations are similar, so you kind of countered your own point.
Ludlam has had several stand out performances for England. Willis hasn’t. Personally I prefer Willis as a player, but at test level Ludlam has done a better job.
Because he's not played that well so far? Hasn't had many minutes to be fair to him but he's the least rounded of the four openside style flankers in the squad. He's a tackle machine that is good over the breakdown, though not at international level, his carrying game is behind the others. Unpopular opinion but I'd have him down the pecking order as well, there's been no stand out performances in either the 6N or summer series that makes him undroppable and post world cup he's unavailable to England so there's not a lot of point trying to play him into form with a view to being good for his development ahead of the 6N.
Similar with Ribbans. He's either in incredible form and therefore selected or he sits behind the other guys as developing them will benefit England moving forwards.
The comparison between Ribbans and Willis is laughable. Beyond both being in the Top14 there is no comparison whatsoever.
There’s no standout performance from Ludlum to make him undroppable…
I hope Borthwick is planning beyond the next 6N. Sack him on 29th Oct if he’s not.
As I read it, @FKAS wasn’t comparing Ribbans and Willis as players - he was simply saying their situations are similar, so you kind of countered your own point.
Ludlam has had several stand out performances for England. Willis hasn’t. Personally I prefer Willis as a player, but at test level Ludlam has done a better job.
Their situations are only similar in the short term and Borthwick is stupid if that is the extent of his planning - as I clarified later in my post.
We obviously have different ideas of what outstanding looks like. Ludlam has had outstanding periods during matches but no outstanding matches, imo.
Last edited by Mellsblue on Fri Sep 15, 2023 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Because he's not played that well so far? Hasn't had many minutes to be fair to him but he's the least rounded of the four openside style flankers in the squad. He's a tackle machine that is good over the breakdown, though not at international level, his carrying game is behind the others. Unpopular opinion but I'd have him down the pecking order as well, there's been no stand out performances in either the 6N or summer series that makes him undroppable and post world cup he's unavailable to England so there's not a lot of point trying to play him into form with a view to being good for his development ahead of the 6N.
Similar with Ribbans. He's either in incredible form and therefore selected or he sits behind the other guys as developing them will benefit England moving forwards.
The comparison between Ribbans and Willis is laughable. Beyond both being in the Top14 there is no comparison whatsoever.
There’s no standout performance from Ludlum to make him undroppable…
I hope Borthwick is planning beyond the next 6N. Sack him on 29th Oct if he’s not.
As I read it, @FKAS wasn’t comparing Ribbans and Willis as players - he was simply saying their situations are similar, so you kind of countered your own point.
Ludlam has had several stand out performances for England. Willis hasn’t. Personally I prefer Willis as a player, but at test level Ludlam has done a better job.
I wouldn't go quite as far as stand out- but Ludlam has conspicuously improved his basics, esp ball retention and presentation, and is always energetic (even if looking like he's carrying more timber- which he is) and that has stood out around lethargic colleagues, but should be a baseline. But he has earned his place in the pecking order through dint of application, energy and versatility and being available after the World Cup.
Willis J has the more potential for game changing interventions, but frankly is in the wrong squad to do so, and is staying in France. The extension to the Ribbans/Willis in France bit, is why waste squad places on them.....if you get my drift. The answer is that, esp for Ribbans, in event of injury, a very handy sub.
p/d wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 6:01 pm
Agree. Really not sure what he brings to the party nowadays
Its quite odd, he's clearly a lot fitter, his passing skills are still decent, but he loses the ball too easily and doesn't quite make the telling gainline intervention as often. Injuries and confidence and miles in the legs I guess; I actually think he's underrated as an all round player.
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 5:38 pm
The comparison between Ribbans and Willis is laughable. Beyond both being in the Top14 there is no comparison whatsoever.
There’s no standout performance from Ludlum to make him undroppable…
I hope Borthwick is planning beyond the next 6N. Sack him on 29th Oct if he’s not.
As I read it, @FKAS wasn’t comparing Ribbans and Willis as players - he was simply saying their situations are similar, so you kind of countered your own point.
Ludlam has had several stand out performances for England. Willis hasn’t. Personally I prefer Willis as a player, but at test level Ludlam has done a better job.
Their situations are only similar in the short term and Borthwick is stupid if that is the extent of his planning - as I clarified later in my post.
We obviously have different ideas of what outstanding looks like. Ludlam has had outstanding periods during matches but no outstanding matches, imo.
Short term? JWillis has a contract until 2026 with Toulouse.
He's not done enough to come up past Ludlam in the pecking order and isn't available for three seasons after this tournament. Fourth choice is about right.
As I read it, @FKAS wasn’t comparing Ribbans and Willis as players - he was simply saying their situations are similar, so you kind of countered your own point.
Ludlam has had several stand out performances for England. Willis hasn’t. Personally I prefer Willis as a player, but at test level Ludlam has done a better job.
Their situations are only similar in the short term and Borthwick is stupid if that is the extent of his planning - as I clarified later in my post.
We obviously have different ideas of what outstanding looks like. Ludlam has had outstanding periods during matches but no outstanding matches, imo.
Short term? JWillis has a contract until 2026 with Toulouse.
He's not done enough to come up past Ludlam in the pecking order and isn't available for three seasons after this tournament. Fourth choice is about right.
It’s a two year contract with a third year option. He could be back in the Prem halfway through the World Cup cycle which seems to work ok for NZ. He’s also young enough, and injuries have meant he doesn’t have that many games under his belt, that there’s a possibility he makes the World Cup after. Stripped Barnacle is also lobbying to select players not in the Prem and if he gets his way that Willis is at Toulouse is moot.
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 6:12 pm
Their situations are only similar in the short term and Borthwick is stupid if that is the extent of his planning - as I clarified later in my post.
We obviously have different ideas of what outstanding looks like. Ludlam has had outstanding periods during matches but no outstanding matches, imo.
Short term? JWillis has a contract until 2026 with Toulouse.
He's not done enough to come up past Ludlam in the pecking order and isn't available for three seasons after this tournament. Fourth choice is about right.
It’s a two year contract with a third year option. He could be back in the Prem halfway through the World Cup cycle which seems to work ok for NZ. He’s also young enough, and injuries have meant he doesn’t have that many games under his belt, that there’s a possibility he makes the World Cup after. Stripped Barnacle is also lobbying to select players not in the Prem and if he gets his way that Willis is at Toulouse is moot.
He'll be 28 by the time he returns to England, it he opts out of his third year (which will only be if the deal he gets in the Prem can compete with what he'll have been offered to stay where his family is settled in the South of France). Can't keep calling him young. Given the damage to his knees I'm not sure lack of game time necessarily helps.
It's fine for NZ with their big name talents. Unfulfilled potential at the top level not so much.
It's harsh on a nice guy who's a good player but we have opensides, including Tom Curry who is both younger and better, as well as having a lot more experience.
There was one Willis I'd like to have seen found room for and developed for this next cycle and that would have been TWillis.
The RFU I'm sure play the game where they say they might pick from abroad in order to help negotiate terms with the Prem clubs. They'll soon abandon the plan once the new deal is signed, it's considerably more beneficial to have access to players outside of international windows.
Short term? JWillis has a contract until 2026 with Toulouse.
He's not done enough to come up past Ludlam in the pecking order and isn't available for three seasons after this tournament. Fourth choice is about right.
It’s a two year contract with a third year option. He could be back in the Prem halfway through the World Cup cycle which seems to work ok for NZ. He’s also young enough, and injuries have meant he doesn’t have that many games under his belt, that there’s a possibility he makes the World Cup after. Stripped Barnacle is also lobbying to select players not in the Prem and if he gets his way that Willis is at Toulouse is moot.
He'll be 28 by the time he returns to England, it he opts out of his third year (which will only be if the deal he gets in the Prem can compete with what he'll have been offered to stay where his family is settled in the South of France). Can't keep calling him young. Given the damage to his knees I'm not sure lack of game time necessarily helps.
It's fine for NZ with their big name talents. Unfulfilled potential at the top level not so much.
It's harsh on a nice guy who's a good player but we have opensides, including Tom Curry who is both younger and better, as well as having a lot more experience.
There was one Willis I'd like to have seen found room for and developed for this next cycle and that would have been TWillis.
The RFU I'm sure play the game where they say they might pick from abroad in order to help negotiate terms with the Prem clubs. They'll soon abandon the plan once the new deal is signed, it's considerably more beneficial to have access to players outside of international windows.
Yes, I know he’ll be 28 in two years. I’m glad you accept his contract isn’t until 2026. Tom Curry is a whole year younger. As for the rest, let’s not go around in circles.
Japan will get stuck in and rattle England at Rugby World Cup
Toshiba Brave Lupus head coach Todd Blackadder runs through the key areas that Japan will be hoping to exploit in Sunday’s clash in Nice
Todd Blackadder, Toshiba Brave Lupus Tokyo head coach
Friday September 15 2023, 12.01am, The Times
How Japan can beat England
You’re going to see a different game from Japan from their previous ones. They’ve been a bit patchy since the previous World Cup and haven’t played like they were capable of a couple of years ago.
Covid had a massive effect on the game over here. It was so well supported after the World Cup in Japan and then Covid ravaged it. It’s slowly coming back.
For the Chile game last weekend, in the town where I live, in Fuchu, just south of Tokyo, there was an open public area with the game on a massive screen. It was really well supported. The Japanese really get behind their national team. There’s massive public interest in the game over here, I don’t think that’s changed.
Japan are a better team than how they’ve been playing, so they must be due a great performance.
Return to their all-out attacking blueprint
It is warm in France — 27 degrees in Nice on Sunday — but Japan are used to training in the heat, so they’ll be in their element against England.
Where Japan are at their best is shifting the point of attack. With a bit of space they’re dangerous. The type of rugby played here in League One is high octane, fast, with lots of variation, ball movement, lots of passing, running. The high-tempo game is one that suits them.
If England aren’t disciplined Japan could cause them some real problems. You saw in the 2019 World Cup with these minor teams — if a team is not well structured and disciplined in their own game they can come into a lot of problems.
In 2019, under their coaches Jamie Joseph and Tony Brown, they played from everywhere. It was a really attacking style with a lot of innovation. They’ve probably gone away from that a bit in the last 12 months and it hasn’t quite gelled.
They’ll understand they need a set piece, but will go back to their traditional game of playing some more open, running rugby against England.
England went into Argentina with a real set piece focus. I admired the way that they played as they went to choke a team to submit them, to stop them. I don’t think anything will change. So if Japan can win their set piece ball or force them into a kicking game, they’ll want to counterattack and play from that.
England will want to play a very disciplined game and will want to go to the set piece and create pressure. Japan will want to open the game right up.
What have they got to lose? Get stuck in, ruffle a few feathers and try to get under England’s skin.
Fix the breakdown, hold up the scrum
Japan have got to sort their breakdowns out. Against Chile, they let opportunities slip by not being aggressive enough in the contact area. That’s probably where if they don’t get that right England’s back row will get in there and turn the ball over. It’s going to be one of those games of pressure.
The return of back rowers Kazuki Himeno and Lappies Labuschagné, who did not play against Chile, will make a massive difference. There is a lot of experience with Keita Inagaki in the front row. It’s not their first rodeo. They’ve been around a while. Teams who underestimate them usually come off second best.
I wouldn’t underestimate them when it comes to dominance, but England at their best would want to beat them in the set piece and will try to take the legs out of them.
Players to watch
The bench lock, Warner Dearns, is a great young player. He’s only 21 and plays for my Toshiba team. He’s a New Zealander who qualified for Japan on residency and is unbelievable when it comes to athleticism. He’s really good at the set piece, about 118kg (18st 8lb), and is a young, explosive athlete. He’s 6ft 7in and can run 100 metres and is as fast as a back. He’s unbelievable.
He’s really powerful, as is Amato Fakatava at lock. As a forward pack, I wouldn’t underestimate these guys.
In their backs, Jone Naikabula, who scored against Chile, is unbelievable on one wing, and their back three of Kotaro Matsushima and Semisi Masirewa are pretty good. The replacement Dylan Riley is a really good centre. In attack, he’s really accurate, and defensively he’s the same. He’s really underrated, but plays for the top Japanese club side Saitama Wild Knights and he’s outstanding week in, week out.
● Todd Blackadder is a former All Blacks lock who coached Bath and Crusaders and now works in Japanese League One.
It's strange how see players differently. FKAS ranks Willis 4th behind the other flankers Curry, Earl and Ludlam. I'd have him 1st for the simple reason that he can do anything the others can do whereas at the breakdown he can do things that the others can't. If we keep kicking as much as we have he is simply the best of the four at getting the ball back (on the reasonable assumption that we have not contested the kick well).
Within the context of where we are at, I have no issue with SB sticking to a winning side but how Vunipola gets a bench slot ahead of Willis is beyond me.
