RugbyRebels

Posted: **Fri Oct 13, 2023 5:41 pm**

Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 5:34 pm
Spiffy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 5:31 pm
jngf wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 11:29 am On the No.8 issue there seem to be lots of advocates of Mercer but isn’t he just a slightly slower version of Simmonds or Earl?
Scrumhead and others I expect you may be thinking I’m being contrarian for the sake of it here but I promise I’m not

My own view is you need a bigger player like Dombrandt or Tom Willis at 8 ( though appreciate their vastly differing styles) or put a real hard yards ball carrier in the loose head lock / 4 shirt which means someone like Martin, to allow a smaller but pacy and mobile No.8 like Simmonds, Earl or Mercer to feature.

A further bonus is if the no.8 can be the third jumper, meaning we no longer have to keep sticking locks at 6, mentioning no names …
Why do you consider Mercer small? At 17.5 st.he is bigger than Doris or Ardie Savea, both of them world class No.8s. (and yes - I know that Savea is a miss placed 7 but look how he's performing at 8.)
Just when Puja had brokered an armistice....

Peace was never an option.

Puja

Posted: **Fri Oct 13, 2023 7:14 pm**

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 3:43 pm
Puja wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 2:31 pm [Mod] Let's be sure to be civil and kind. While we disagree on things, often finding others' opinions utterly incomprehensible, I don't want to be here moderating escalating arguments that stray into personal abuse. I have such fun being indolent - please don't make me have to actively mod. If I wanted to work, then I'd be doing my actual paid job right now. [/Mod]
My bad. Sorry to both of you.

“Is Mercer just a slower version of Earl” appeared to me like letting the mask slip on a decade long wind-up.

Was my fault, sorry.

Posted: **Fri Oct 13, 2023 7:15 pm**

Puja wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 4:33 pm PEACE IN OUR TIME!

And I don't think anyone's not annoyed about Lawes at 6 nowadays, so that's safe ground.

Puja

Nah, I'm pretty annoyed by Lawes on the flank...

It's just that there's so much to be annoyed at in the England team I just can't bring myself to be completely and utterly rage filled for all of them...

Posted: **Sat Oct 14, 2023 6:42 pm**

Just had the belated revelation that Farrell may be England’s Sam
Cane

https://amp.rugbypass.com/news/growing- ... -sam-cane/

Posted: **Sat Oct 14, 2023 9:05 pm**

In that he's a Shite Jonny Wilkinson and Cane is, in PoM's words, a Shite Ritchie McCaw?

Posted: **Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:04 pm**

Danno wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 9:05 pm In that he's a Shite Jonny Wilkinson and Cane is, in PoM's words, a Shite Ritchie McCaw?

Credit where credits due - Cane actually played very well tonight (got through 20+ tackles in 74 minutes) - that was one helluva test match! Farrell take note

Posted: **Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:14 pm**

jngf wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:04 pm
Danno wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 9:05 pm In that he's a Shite Jonny Wilkinson and Cane is, in PoM's words, a Shite Ritchie McCaw?
Credit where credits due - Cane actually played very well tonight (got through 20+ tackles in 74 minutes) - that was one helluva test match! Farrell take note

Yep, can't remember the last time I saw Ireland embarrassed at the breakdown. Crazy days.

Posted: **Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:20 pm**

England 9/25 odds to win tomorrow

Posted: **Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:51 pm**

Danno wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 9:05 pm In that he's a Shite Jonny Wilkinson and Cane is, in PoM's words, a Shite Ritchie McCaw?

Pom got it back plus plus

Posted: **Sat Oct 14, 2023 11:52 pm**

Isn’t basically every flanker just a shit Richie McCaw anyway?

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2023 12:23 am**

Feel bad for Ireland, that sort of seemed like their best shot for another 2 cycles given who will be retiring, and they let the occasion get to them *again*

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2023 1:57 am**

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 11:52 pm Isn’t basically every flanker just a shit Richie McCaw anyway?

Think Michael Jones and Josh Kronfeld might beg to differ

and that’s before one gets to the likes of Nyanga, Rives, Skrela, Cabanes, Dusautoir, Betsen and Macalou. I see McCaw as the best fetcher but not best all round flanker there’s ever been.

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2023 6:51 am**

How does Macalou even come close to joining that group?

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2023 8:26 am**

jngf wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 1:57 am
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 11:52 pm Isn’t basically every flanker just a shit Richie McCaw anyway?
Think Michael Jones and Josh Kronfeld might beg to differ
and that’s before one gets to the likes of Nyanga, Rives, Skrela, Cabanes, Dusautoir, Betsen and Macalou. I see McCaw as the best fetcher but not best all round flanker there’s ever been.

McCaw was way more than just a fetcher, and reinvented himself a couple of times as he aged. IMO him and Jones stand above the rest, and he must edge it on longevity and achievement- and being a superb captain.

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2023 8:46 am**

jngf wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 11:29 am On the No.8 issue there seem to be lots of advocates of Mercer but isn’t he just a slightly slower version of Simmonds or Earl?
Scrumhead and others I expect you may be thinking I’m being contrarian for the sake of it here but I promise I’m not

My own view is you need a bigger player like Dombrandt or Tom Willis at 8 ( though appreciate their vastly differing styles) or put a real hard yards ball carrier in the loose head lock / 4 shirt which means someone like Martin, to allow a smaller but pacy and mobile No.8 like Simmonds, Earl or Mercer to feature.

A further bonus is if the no.8 can be the third jumper, meaning we no longer have to keep sticking locks at 6, mentioning no names …

Doesn't matter how big Dombrandt is, he carries as if he weighs the same as my 5 year old (9kg wet through) and doesn't hit the same lines for England as he does for Quins, potentially because those gaps aren't there in internationals. If Alex Goode is the captain and full back of my flat track bullies XV, Dombrandt is 8 and pack leader.

Squad as follows:

3 x LH- Genge Rodd VRR
3 x Hooker LCD Dan Langdon
3 x TH Stuart Heyes Sinckler
4 x Lock Itoje O Chessum Martin Isiekwe
6 x Backrow Pearson Hill T Curry T Willis Mercer Earl
3 x SH Quirke Mitchell JVP
3 x FH M Smith F Smith Atkinson
4 x Centre Kelly Dingwall Lawrence W Joseph
6 x Back three Arundell Steward Freeman Murley Carpenter Lynagh
1 anywhere Barbeary (but he needs to try hooker again)
3 x apprentice CCS, L Chessum Cassius Cleeves

Less hung up on them being over 30 as being so indescribably garbage as to make me want to put my foot through the TV

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2023 9:05 am**

As a pre-cursor to any possible revolution, It will be interesting to see how many of the 33 follow May's example and retire from international rugby. I hope lots do, mainly because there needs to be a major leadership change. Itoje, Genge, Curry and Smith need to take over the mentality frame without having to look backwards. They need to believe in themselves and have the freedom to make mistakes in the cause of progress's learning curve.

We have had 20 years of evolution, most of it unsuccessful. Let's move on and try a new way.

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2023 9:29 am**

Either through retirement or selection, or moving to France, at least a third of this squad wont - or shouldnt - play again.

Some are pretty clear cut like Marler, Cole, Vunipola, Youngs, Tuilagi and May. The really interesting calls are going to be around George, Lawes, Malins and Ford/Farrell. Take a brave coach to ditch Farrell. Is SB one?

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2023 10:31 am**

fivepointer wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 9:29 am Either through retirement or selection, or moving to France, at least a third of this squad wont - or shouldnt - play again.

Some are pretty clear cut like Marler, Cole, Vunipola, Youngs, Tuilagi and May. The really interesting calls are going to be around George, Lawes, Malins and Ford/Farrell. Take a brave coach to ditch Farrell. Is SB one?

I suppose (wishful thinking!!??) that Farrell might retire for the sake of English rugby.

I hope all the names you quote (other than the too-young Malins) decide to retire. Ford is 30, I think. That age is a critical issue. What I most DO NOT want to see is him, or any of them, staying on for a year or two and then going. There has to be time to try new players who don't make it and then try the next alternatives. Otherwise, as we have often seen the Head Coach's judgement is too restricted. The classic example was Dombrandt, given a good run only to fail and leave no time to try T Willis.

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2023 10:52 am**

Ford will be our Sanchez for 2027

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2023 10:59 am**

Tom Moore wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 8:46 am
jngf wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 11:29 am On the No.8 issue there seem to be lots of advocates of Mercer but isn’t he just a slightly slower version of Simmonds or Earl?
Scrumhead and others I expect you may be thinking I’m being contrarian for the sake of it here but I promise I’m not

My own view is you need a bigger player like Dombrandt or Tom Willis at 8 ( though appreciate their vastly differing styles) or put a real hard yards ball carrier in the loose head lock / 4 shirt which means someone like Martin, to allow a smaller but pacy and mobile No.8 like Simmonds, Earl or Mercer to feature.

A further bonus is if the no.8 can be the third jumper, meaning we no longer have to keep sticking locks at 6, mentioning no names …
Doesn't matter how big Dombrandt is, he carries as if he weighs the same as my 5 year old (9kg wet through) and doesn't hit the same lines for England as he does for Quins, potentially because those gaps aren't there in internationals. If Alex Goode is the captain and full back of my flat track bullies XV, Dombrandt is 8 and pack leader.

Squad as follows:

3 x LH- Genge Rodd VRR
3 x Hooker LCD Dan Langdon
3 x TH Stuart Heyes Sinckler
4 x Lock Itoje O Chessum Martin Isiekwe
6 x Backrow Pearson Hill T Curry T Willis Mercer Earl
3 x SH Quirke Mitchell JVP
3 x FH M Smith F Smith Atkinson
4 x Centre Kelly Dingwall Lawrence W Joseph
6 x Back three Arundell Steward Freeman Murley Carpenter Lynagh
1 anywhere Barbeary (but he needs to try hooker again)
3 x apprentice CCS, L Chessum Cassius Cleeves

Less hung up on them being over 30 as being so indescribably garbage as to make me want to put my foot through the TV

Isiekwe at lock is a triumph of hope over experience. Like all the rest

...and sadly, probably the best we have aren't going to worry too many teams.

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2023 11:00 am**

p/d wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 10:52 am Ford will be our Sanchez for 2027

Ah, so Smith is to become the permanent FB?

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2023 11:02 am**

fivepointer wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 9:29 am Either through retirement or selection, or moving to France, at least a third of this squad wont - or shouldnt - play again.

Some are pretty clear cut like Marler, Cole, Vunipola, Youngs, Tuilagi and May. The really interesting calls are going to be around George, Lawes, Malins and Ford/Farrell. Take a brave coach to ditch Farrell. Is SB one?

Move Malins to 10, he's only 26 and its where imo he has looked best, albeit a while ago.

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2023 11:03 am**

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 11:00 am
p/d wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 10:52 am Ford will be our Sanchez for 2027
Ah, so Smith is to become the permanent FB?

Hopefully we will build around him at 10 and Atkinson 12

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2023 11:03 am**

Banquo wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 10:59 am
Tom Moore wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 8:46 am
jngf wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 11:29 am On the No.8 issue there seem to be lots of advocates of Mercer but isn’t he just a slightly slower version of Simmonds or Earl?
Scrumhead and others I expect you may be thinking I’m being contrarian for the sake of it here but I promise I’m not

My own view is you need a bigger player like Dombrandt or Tom Willis at 8 ( though appreciate their vastly differing styles) or put a real hard yards ball carrier in the loose head lock / 4 shirt which means someone like Martin, to allow a smaller but pacy and mobile No.8 like Simmonds, Earl or Mercer to feature.

A further bonus is if the no.8 can be the third jumper, meaning we no longer have to keep sticking locks at 6, mentioning no names …
Doesn't matter how big Dombrandt is, he carries as if he weighs the same as my 5 year old (9kg wet through) and doesn't hit the same lines for England as he does for Quins, potentially because those gaps aren't there in internationals. If Alex Goode is the captain and full back of my flat track bullies XV, Dombrandt is 8 and pack leader.

Squad as follows:

3 x LH- Genge Rodd VRR
3 x Hooker LCD Dan Langdon
3 x TH Stuart Heyes Sinckler
4 x Lock Itoje O Chessum Martin Isiekwe
6 x Backrow Pearson Hill T Curry T Willis Mercer Earl
3 x SH Quirke Mitchell JVP
3 x FH M Smith F Smith Atkinson
4 x Centre Kelly Dingwall Lawrence W Joseph
6 x Back three Arundell Steward Freeman Murley Carpenter Lynagh
1 anywhere Barbeary (but he needs to try hooker again)
3 x apprentice CCS, L Chessum Cassius Cleeves

Less hung up on them being over 30 as being so indescribably garbage as to make me want to put my foot through the TV
Isiekwe at lock is a triumph of hope over experience. Like all the rest ...and sadly, probably the best we have aren't going to worry too many teams.

I hope t'other Chessum will soon overtake Isiekwe.

Posted: **Sun Oct 15, 2023 11:05 am**

p/d wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 11:03 am
Oakboy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 11:00 am
p/d wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 10:52 am Ford will be our Sanchez for 2027
Ah, so Smith is to become the permanent FB?
Hopefully we will build around him at 10 and Atkinson 12

Hodge at FB?

RugbyRebels

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