RugbyRebels

francoisfou wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 4:21 pm Good stuff, but not quite going to plan from my point of view !

You might have a different view now.

francoisfou wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 4:21 pm Good stuff, but not quite going to plan from my point of view !

‘Tis now !

pompey-zebra wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 4:35 pm

francoisfou wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 4:21 pm Good stuff, but not quite going to plan from my point of view !

You might have a different view now.

Not sure that final score is a fair reflection of the game, but French power told in the end. Just too many big ball carriers making the hard yards.

Italy will offer us a different challenge next week. Hopefully we can build on the positives from today.

We just couldn’t withstand the power of their pack. It was a brave effort but just outmuscled where it matters.

normanski wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 4:48 pm We just couldn’t withstand the power of their pack. It was a brave effort but just outmuscled where it matters.

We do look underpowered, but the French discipline was important too. No easy outs and France could keep the pressure on in the second half.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 4:47 pm Not sure that final score is a fair reflection of the game, but French power told in the end. Just too many big ball carriers making the hard yards.

Italy will offer us a different challenge next week. Hopefully we can build on the positives from today.

I think we're going to have to beat Italy with a try bonus point and deny them a bonus point to avoid finishing bottom. That late flurry of french points has tipped the points difference in Italy's favour.

France played a good English game there, favouring brawn backed up by no small measure of brain. The plan to move the French pack around was never going to work given their bench, but I don't see any alternative given our resources. I'm not a huge fan of Costello but he played well today and I probably wouldn't have taken him off. Why Roberts was taken off completely escapes me.
Gareth Davies is definitely past his sell by date. He looked so slow.

Positives: lineout and positive vibes for sixty odd minutes.

UKHamlet wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:00 pm France played a good English game there, favouring brawn backed up by no small measure of brain. The plan to move the French pack around was never going to work given their bench, but I don't see any alternative given our resources. I'm not a huge fan of Costello but he played well today and I probably wouldn't have taken him off. Why Roberts was taken off completely escapes me.
Gareth Davies is definitely past his sell by date. He looked so slow.

Positives: lineout and positive vibes for sixty odd minutes.

Davies' break aside, he looks past it now. I assume Roberts was struggling on his ankle? Watkin had a better game and or attack was fairly effective for the most part.

But we were totally starved of any possession. We missed a Lydiate type player to chop down attackers on the gain line and when Reffell went off, they had a field day at the ruck.

If the French had been more accurate they'd have put another 20 on us. We were lucky to be in the game for as long as we did. Although I disagreed with Gatland's selections and could have done with North's bulk I imagine the result would have been the same, our forwards were simply not physically able to compete with the French.

Nice work by Watkin for Williams's try. Roberts was okay but that was no try - he clearly makes a double movement. He should have passed. Costelow wasn't great but Lloyd was no better (although he suffered from the French having figured out how to play us in the last 20). I think Adams had a better game but he's still nowhere near his former self. Dyer was full of energy again. Winnett was just okay.

Oh yeah, with a different ref they'd have put a cricket score on us with their scrum.

Stats:

WALES Tackles, Missed Tackles, Passes, Runs, Metres Run
C WinnettFB 2 3 7 5 0
J AdamsW 6 1 3 3 9
J RobertsC 11 2 2 4 18
O WatkinC 6 3 10 6 22
R DyerW 3 2 3 9 82
S CostelowFH 9 2 15 6 32
T WilliamsSH 7 2 37 5 66
G ThomasP 17 1 4 3 6
E DeeH 13 0 4 5 7
K AssirattiP 4 1 1 0 0
W RowlandsL 12 0 6 9 11
A BeardL 15 2 7 3 3
D JenkinsFL 26 0 2 3 7
T ReffellFL 18 1 3 3 6
A WainwrightN8 10 2 7 7 22
E LloydR 0 0 1 2 0
C DomachowskiR 0 1 0 2 1
D LewisR 7 0 2 3 0
A MannR 5 1 2 2 0
M MartinR 0 0 0 2 7
G DaviesR 2 1 31 1 26
I LloydR 1 1 15 3 26
M GradyR 2 0 0 4 8

Take a bow, Daf Jenkins, 26 tackles none missed. But the overall stats say it all, particularly our 34% territory. No chance of winning with that. Tackle completion % wasn't too bad but we had to make so many that we missed 26 in total, to France's 13, and even when we made them they were driving us back.

https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/matchstats ... gue=180659

I'm utterly depressed by all this. Not the match in particular but the fact that WRU let it come to this. Our players should be playing week in week out in winning teams that are properly funded and a blend of youth and experience. They need to know how to play at the top level: how to close out games after building a lead. It all starts with funding and the WRU aren't doing their bit. We have roughly the same income as the IRFU but too much of that income seems to disappear into the Westgate Street black hole.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:33 pm Stats:

WALES Tackles, Missed Tackles, Passes, Runs, Metres Run
C WinnettFB 2 3 7 5 0
J AdamsW 6 1 3 3 9
J RobertsC 11 2 2 4 18
O WatkinC 6 3 10 6 22
R DyerW 3 2 3 9 82
S CostelowFH 9 2 15 6 32
T WilliamsSH 7 2 37 5 66
G ThomasP 17 1 4 3 6
E DeeH 13 0 4 5 7
K AssirattiP 4 1 1 0 0
W RowlandsL 12 0 6 9 11
A BeardL 15 2 7 3 3
D JenkinsFL 26 0 2 3 7
T ReffellFL 18 1 3 3 6
A WainwrightN8 10 2 7 7 22
E LloydR 0 0 1 2 0
C DomachowskiR 0 1 0 2 1
D LewisR 7 0 2 3 0
A MannR 5 1 2 2 0
M MartinR 0 0 0 2 7
G DaviesR 2 1 31 1 26
I LloydR 1 1 15 3 26
M GradyR 2 0 0 4 8

Take a bow, Daf Jenkins, 26 tackles none missed. But the overall stats say it all, particularly our 34% territory. No chance of winning with that. Tackle completion % wasn't too bad but we had to make so many that we missed 26 in total, to France's 13, and even when we made them they were driving us back.

https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/matchstats ... gue=180659

The stats don’t make it clear how easily the French dominated the gainline. It was a brave effort but it needs to be better.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:49 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:33 pm Stats:

WALES Tackles, Missed Tackles, Passes, Runs, Metres Run
C WinnettFB 2 3 7 5 0
J AdamsW 6 1 3 3 9
J RobertsC 11 2 2 4 18
O WatkinC 6 3 10 6 22
R DyerW 3 2 3 9 82
S CostelowFH 9 2 15 6 32
T WilliamsSH 7 2 37 5 66
G ThomasP 17 1 4 3 6
E DeeH 13 0 4 5 7
K AssirattiP 4 1 1 0 0
W RowlandsL 12 0 6 9 11
A BeardL 15 2 7 3 3
D JenkinsFL 26 0 2 3 7
T ReffellFL 18 1 3 3 6
A WainwrightN8 10 2 7 7 22
E LloydR 0 0 1 2 0
C DomachowskiR 0 1 0 2 1
D LewisR 7 0 2 3 0
A MannR 5 1 2 2 0
M MartinR 0 0 0 2 7
G DaviesR 2 1 31 1 26
I LloydR 1 1 15 3 26
M GradyR 2 0 0 4 8

Take a bow, Daf Jenkins, 26 tackles none missed. But the overall stats say it all, particularly our 34% territory. No chance of winning with that. Tackle completion % wasn't too bad but we had to make so many that we missed 26 in total, to France's 13, and even when we made them they were driving us back.

https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/matchstats ... gue=180659

The stats don’t make it clear how easily the French dominated the gainline. It was a brave effort but it needs to be better.

Yeah, their post-tackle metres must have been massive. We did well to scramble for as long as we did but that only really worked because of their errors, which we didn't see so much of in the last 20.

UKHamlet wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:42 pm I'm utterly depressed by all this. Not the match in particular but the fact that WRU let it come to this. Our players should be playing week in week out in winning teams that are properly funded and a blend of youth and experience. They need to know how to play at the top level: how to close out games after building a lead. It all starts with funding and the WRU aren't doing their bit. We have roughly the same income as the IRFU but too much of that income seems to disappear into the Westgate Street black hole.

Yep, it is a downer, not much positive to see. The WRU have made it so much worse through decades of mismanagement and lack of planning. Agreed, we should have at least 1 good region (which our players could aspire to) but we don't even have that now. That loses us players. If we had a team as good as Exeter (let alone Leinster) players like Feyi-Waboso would be less likely to leave (Ireland doesn't lose any good players).

I don't think Gatland has done a great job here but with the players missing (for whatever reason) we really didn't have much hope. Now Italy . . . I can't help discounting them because of their historical mediocrity but on this seasons form they may well beat us. And being 4 points up on us, they don't even need to do that. Bottom of the table beckons, which means even less money for Welsh rugby and less reason for players to choose Wales.

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 6:03 pm

UKHamlet wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:42 pm I'm utterly depressed by all this. Not the match in particular but the fact that WRU let it come to this. Our players should be playing week in week out in winning teams that are properly funded and a blend of youth and experience. They need to know how to play at the top level: how to close out games after building a lead. It all starts with funding and the WRU aren't doing their bit. We have roughly the same income as the IRFU but too much of that income seems to disappear into the Westgate Street black hole.

Yep, it is a downer, not much positive to see. The WRU have made it so much worse through decades of mismanagement and lack of planning. Agreed, we should have at least 1 good region (which our players could aspire to) but we don't even have that now. That loses us players. If we had a team as good as Exeter (let alone Leinster) players like Feyi-Waboso would be less likely to leave (Ireland doesn't lose any good players).

I don't think Gatland has done a great job here but with the players missing (for whatever reason) we really didn't have much hope. Now Italy . . . I can't help discounting them because of their historical mediocrity but on this seasons form they may well beat us. And being 4 points up on us, they don't even need to do that. Bottom of the table beckons, which means even less money for Welsh rugby and less reason for players to choose Wales.

We need to get something successful going or else its going to be a long decade. Drop the 25 cap rule and pick the best team available, at least that gets Team Wales winning and some money for the regions. Focus then on 1 region, then a second. Get a strong team out that is competitive. Id prefer that we just went east and west but that wont happen so if we have the current set up, throw resource at the Ospreys who have the bets history of success and take it from there.

And stop funding a bloody hotel.

UKHamlet wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:00 pm France played a good English game there, favouring brawn backed up by no small measure of brain. The plan to move the French pack around was never going to work given their bench, but I don't see any alternative given our resources. I'm not a huge fan of Costello but he played well today and I probably wouldn't have taken him off. Why Roberts was taken off completely escapes me.
Gareth Davies is definitely past his sell by date. He looked so slow.

Positives: lineout and positive vibes for sixty odd minutes.

Costellow played well??? What apart from the missed touch the missed tackle and general crapness?

So there is seriously no other hooker available than to throw a baby that has no senior professional experience. Beggars belief.

Inexperience cost as well. Trying to run out from own 22 with 10 to go. The break was on, but needed to go through hands and not loft a painfully slow ball to the wing.

That french pack though. Can bring on those beasts after 60 mins. :O

Was alsost like gats expected a hiding and was targeting the Italy game (which I am now seriously worried about). If the regions cannot produce enough quality, time to scrap the 25 cap nonsense as this is dire

newgalesurf wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 5:08 pm So there is seriously no other hooker available than to throw a baby that has no senior professional experience. Beggars belief.

Inexperience cost as well. Trying to run out from own 22 with 10 to go. The break was on, but needed to go through hands and not loft a painfully slow ball to the wing.

That french pack though. Can bring on those beasts after 60 mins. :O

Was alsost like gats expected a hiding and was targeting the Italy game (which I am now seriously worried about). If the regions cannot produce enough quality, time to scrap the 25 cap nonsense as this is dire

A young and inexperienced team will make mistakes and I can live with that, but completely agree with thr rest of your post. Men against boys for the last 20. I think if we tried to play a bit too much in the last quarter and they took advantage of our mistakes, but we were really penned in by then and going nowhere, so what else can they do other than kick long?

I was reading earlier this week that Rhys Carre could play for England, Ireland or Scotland in a couple of years, since he is no longer eligible for Wales. I understand why he was dropped from the Welsh squad, and it beggars belief that a pro sportsman is struggling for fitness. But assuming Sarries do a better job there than Cardiff have been able to, then we should be able to bring him back, not lose him (potentially) to another international team. Weve just lost a winger who the English are raving about, and theres a couple of players now who arent available due to the 25 cap rule who would at least add depth. This just cant continue.

And FFS, let's stop this aimless kicking to open field. Only ends up being run back with interest, especially as our chase game is atrocious. Has been irritating for years. I am old school. Kick the thing off the park and go to a lineout with a gain in territory.

I also hate the exit strategy of hitting up the ball through a couple pick'n'gos to just outside the 22, then passing back in so you cannot kick directly to touch

Tuco Ramirez wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:18 pm

UKHamlet wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:00 pm France played a good English game there, favouring brawn backed up by no small measure of brain. The plan to move the French pack around was never going to work given their bench, but I don't see any alternative given our resources. I'm not a huge fan of Costello but he played well today and I probably wouldn't have taken him off. Why Roberts was taken off completely escapes me.
Gareth Davies is definitely past his sell by date. He looked so slow.

Positives: lineout and positive vibes for sixty odd minutes.

Costellow played well??? What apart from the missed touch the missed tackle and general crapness?

General crapness, what? Forgive me Tuco for taking a former front row players pearls of wisdom on backline play with a pinch of salt, I seem to remeber you saying Rio Dyer wasn't up to it not so long ago..

If you want a definition of crapness see Lloyd's play when he came off the bench, he tried to run everything or try cross field kicks inside his own half, clueless.

I would still prefer it if Ben Thomas was given an opportunity at 10 and certainly in front of Cai Evans who I don't see as an International quality player at all, Lloyd could be good as a 23 as he has played across the backline but he doesn't get that space at 10, certainly not at international level, he has a lot to learn about game management.

Anther observation from the game is that Winnett had zero protection when coming in to field high balls, every other nation creates a wall in front of the catcher to block the oppostion (I don't particularly like this but it is what it is), yet we don't appear to be able to do that which was very costly for us on Sunday.

newgalesurf wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:05 pm And FFS, let's stop this aimless kicking to open field. Only ends up being run back with interest, especially as our chase game is atrocious. Has been irritating for years. I am old school. Kick the thing off the park and go to a lineout with a gain in territory.

I also hate the exit strategy of hitting up the ball through a couple pick'n'gos to just outside the 22, then passing back in so you cannot kick directly to touch

You'd have liked to have thought that we would have changed our kicking starategy when it became apparent we could put real pressure on the French throw-in, but it seems not.

Numbers wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 10:18 am

Tuco Ramirez wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:18 pm

UKHamlet wrote: ↑Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:00 pm France played a good English game there, favouring brawn backed up by no small measure of brain. The plan to move the French pack around was never going to work given their bench, but I don't see any alternative given our resources. I'm not a huge fan of Costello but he played well today and I probably wouldn't have taken him off. Why Roberts was taken off completely escapes me.
Gareth Davies is definitely past his sell by date. He looked so slow.

Positives: lineout and positive vibes for sixty odd minutes.

Costellow played well??? What apart from the missed touch the missed tackle and general crapness?

General crapness, what? Forgive me Tuco for taking a former front row players pearls of wisdom on backline play with a pinch of salt, I seem to remeber you saying Rio Dyer wasn't up to it not so long ago..

If you want a definition of crapness see Lloyd's play when he came off the bench, he tried to run everything or try cross field kicks inside his own half, clueless.

I would still prefer it if Ben Thomas was given an opportunity at 10 and certainly in front of Cai Evans who I don't see as an International quality player at all, Lloyd could be good as a 23 as he has played across the backline but he doesn't get that space at 10, certainly not at international level, he has a lot to learn about game management.

Anther observation from the game is that Winnett had zero protection when coming in to field high balls, every other nation creates a wall in front of the catcher to block the oppostion (I don't particularly like this but it is what it is), yet we don't appear to be able to do that which was very costly for us on Sunday.

I fnd him flappy and erratic, they move him wide on defence which is fair enough because he is small but then he falls off a tackle which resulted in a try and his kicking game is not great (hopless against Scotland and France) but his distribution is poor too (remember Argentina in world cup) as it was on Sunday. Lloyd came on and tried forcing things but neither fill me with hope to be honest. He is not what we need but is all we have got but i hoe somebody soon puts their hand up as 10 position is really weak in Wales

Tuco Ramirez wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 11:20 am

Numbers wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 10:18 am

Tuco Ramirez wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:18 pm

Costellow played well??? What apart from the missed touch the missed tackle and general crapness?

General crapness, what? Forgive me Tuco for taking a former front row players pearls of wisdom on backline play with a pinch of salt, I seem to remeber you saying Rio Dyer wasn't up to it not so long ago..

If you want a definition of crapness see Lloyd's play when he came off the bench, he tried to run everything or try cross field kicks inside his own half, clueless.

I would still prefer it if Ben Thomas was given an opportunity at 10 and certainly in front of Cai Evans who I don't see as an International quality player at all, Lloyd could be good as a 23 as he has played across the backline but he doesn't get that space at 10, certainly not at international level, he has a lot to learn about game management.

Anther observation from the game is that Winnett had zero protection when coming in to field high balls, every other nation creates a wall in front of the catcher to block the oppostion (I don't particularly like this but it is what it is), yet we don't appear to be able to do that which was very costly for us on Sunday.

I fnd him flappy and erratic, they move him wide on defence which is fair enough because he is small but then he falls off a tackle which resulted in a try and his kicking game is not great (hopless against Scotland and France) but his distribution is poor too (remember Argentina in world cup) as it was on Sunday. Lloyd came on and tried forcing things but neither fill me with hope to be honest. He is not what we need but is all we have got but i hoe somebody soon puts their hand up as 10 position is really weak in Wales

See I find him far less flappy and erratic than Lloyd, you're right tho the ground is worryingly thin at 10. Owen Williams is probably the best we have available currently but he is plagued by injury and his age goes against him. I don't know why we can't have a 3rd choice 10 in the squad who is actually a 10 rather than Cai Evans, that's not helping with development at all from my perspective.

Numbers wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 11:36 am

Tuco Ramirez wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 11:20 am

Numbers wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2024 10:18 am

General crapness, what? Forgive me Tuco for taking a former front row players pearls of wisdom on backline play with a pinch of salt, I seem to remeber you saying Rio Dyer wasn't up to it not so long ago..

If you want a definition of crapness see Lloyd's play when he came off the bench, he tried to run everything or try cross field kicks inside his own half, clueless.

I would still prefer it if Ben Thomas was given an opportunity at 10 and certainly in front of Cai Evans who I don't see as an International quality player at all, Lloyd could be good as a 23 as he has played across the backline but he doesn't get that space at 10, certainly not at international level, he has a lot to learn about game management.

Anther observation from the game is that Winnett had zero protection when coming in to field high balls, every other nation creates a wall in front of the catcher to block the oppostion (I don't particularly like this but it is what it is), yet we don't appear to be able to do that which was very costly for us on Sunday.

I fnd him flappy and erratic, they move him wide on defence which is fair enough because he is small but then he falls off a tackle which resulted in a try and his kicking game is not great (hopless against Scotland and France) but his distribution is poor too (remember Argentina in world cup) as it was on Sunday. Lloyd came on and tried forcing things but neither fill me with hope to be honest. He is not what we need but is all we have got but i hoe somebody soon puts their hand up as 10 position is really weak in Wales

See I find him far less flappy and erratic than Lloyd, you're right tho the ground is worryingly thin at 10. Owen Williams is probably the best we have available currently but he is plagued by injury and his age goes against him. I don't know why we can't have a 3rd choice 10 in the squad who is actually a 10 rather than Cai Evans, that's not helping with development at all from my perspective.

Owen Williams and Sheedy's unavailability at the start of the 6N were blows that we really did not need on top of everything else. Personally I'd take a fit Sheedy over the rest at this moment.

Agreed on blockers for high ball. The laws should be tightened up on this - as you say they basically build a wall of players in front now and are rarely penalised for it. But while that is the situation, Wales need to play the same game as everyone else and block off the opposition.