It is if you’ve not watched Ben Curry much. Of the 19 - 21 on the bench Curry is not the one I’d pick to single out for this.
Maybe. But he is the only real flanker and I'm comparing like with like. Underhill generally plays well and makes a telling contribution. What's he done wrong to get dropped?
I'm a huge Underhill fan but I think what counts against him sometimes is that whilst he's a world-class tackler, other good tacklers who offer more in other areas would make those tackles too, just not as well... but they do more in attack...
Mind, Underhill's really improved in attack of late and has clearly been working on it. He was a very effective carrier, running onto the ball at pace, for England in the 6N and summer and has been one of Bath's go-to men (when he's been fit).
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 12:41 pm
Yeesh. Hope he's doing okay - I know his mental health isn't always great, so I hope it's just to spend time with family. Wouldn't surprise me if he retired from international again from here - he's not *needed* anymore with the emergence of Baxter and, with his brain issues, he might think it better to spend more time at home than be in training camps as third choice.
Quit twitter as well - so for me, that's mental health issue until proven otherwise - hope he gets what help he needs, and gets some understanding from the ravaging hordes
Mmm. Haven't seen Marler hit the self destruct button for a while I guess. It's hard to imagine he thought the haka talking point would have gone down well, but not really sure what the sequence of events was with leaving camp.
On Underhill I feel like he's been underrated as an attacker for quite a while. You don't see him bowling people over or making many big breaks but he's great both at running support lines for an offload/tip-on and giving those little tip passes himself.
It is if you’ve not watched Ben Curry much. Of the 19 - 21 on the bench Curry is not the one I’d pick to single out for this.
Maybe. But he is the only real flanker and I'm comparing like with like. Underhill generally plays well and makes a telling contribution. What's he done wrong to get dropped?
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 12:53 pm
Mmm. Haven't seen Marler hit the self destruct button for a while I guess. It's hard to imagine he thought the haka talking point would have gone down well, but not really sure what the sequence of events was with leaving camp.
It appears that leaving the camp happened first and, speaking as someone with a broken brain myself, the sequence of events makes perfect sense - acknowledge that you are struggling and need to take time off work, have to be open with boss about this, go home with a feeling of being adrift and purposeless because your major "thing" in your life has suddenly vanished, feel incredible sense of shame/self-anger/embarrassment/depression at being "weak" and "giving up" and "failing", then self-sabotage.
Thankfully for me, I don't keep a twitter account, so mine is at least private.
The above is a whole lot of extrapolation and assumptions (and probably projection), but it makes sense to me.
Left camp on Monday, not for mental health reasons.
Stands by haka tweet - is calling it ridiculous really worthy of a major brouhaha.
Has reinstated X.
There is no evidence that either Kelleher or Marler are paedos or fascists.
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 3:57 pm
Ironically, probably the best answer for the 23 shirt in a 6:2 split is Farrell. That’s assuming you don’t realise the best answer to a 6:2 split is a 5:3 split.
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 1:09 pm
Left camp on Monday, not for mental health reasons.
Stands by haka tweet - is calling it ridiculous really worthy of a major brouhaha.
Has reinstated X.
There is no evidence that either Kelleher or Marler are paedos or fascists.
Fair enough - will retract my projection. Odd that England aren't calling up a replacement, given that it'll limit their ability to practise live scrummaging if one of the looseheads needs to rest a niggle (and would affect Saturday if one of them went down injured), but I expect that that's probably an EPS restriction in that, in order to call up someone, they'd need to officially drop Marler (given that they had to send Roebuck back in order to add Ford).
The bolded bit will baffle anyone that isn't on the Politics board . Presumably if either of them were, they'd be snapped up by Montpellier in a heartbeat.
J Dory wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 1:33 pm
I was really hoping for a decent haka outrage explosion, what has this board come to. Looking forward to the game. #respectthehaka
Mind, the manner in which the haka is done nowadays is a bit odd. Used to be that the haka was done in a minute or two, but now it's an **event** and takes about 5 minutes with the leader leaving massive gaps in the introduction for players to hiss, yelp, and grimace for their closeups on camera. Surely we don't need quite that many dramatic pauses and overacting?
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 1:09 pm
Left camp on Monday, not for mental health reasons.
Stands by haka tweet - is calling it ridiculous really worthy of a major brouhaha.
Has reinstated X.
There is no evidence that either Kelleher or Marler are paedos or fascists.
Fair enough - will retract my projection. Odd that England aren't calling up a replacement, given that it'll limit their ability to practise live scrummaging if one of the looseheads needs to rest a niggle (and would affect Saturday if one of them went down injured), but I expect that that's probably an EPS restriction in that, in order to call up someone, they'd need to officially drop Marler (given that they had to send Roebuck back in order to add Ford).
The bolded bit will baffle anyone that isn't on the Politics board . Presumably if either of them were, they'd be snapped up by Montpellier in a heartbeat.
Puja
They won’t need to go on the politics board, which their mental health with be grateful for. Twitchy decried all X users as such on the Squidge thread.
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 1:09 pm
Left camp on Monday, not for mental health reasons.
Stands by haka tweet - is calling it ridiculous really worthy of a major brouhaha.
Has reinstated X.
There is no evidence that either Kelleher or Marler are paedos or fascists.
Fair enough - will retract my projection. Odd that England aren't calling up a replacement, given that it'll limit their ability to practise live scrummaging if one of the looseheads needs to rest a niggle (and would affect Saturday if one of them went down injured), but I expect that that's probably an EPS restriction in that, in order to call up someone, they'd need to officially drop Marler (given that they had to send Roebuck back in order to add Ford).
The bolded bit will baffle anyone that isn't on the Politics board . Presumably if either of them were, they'd be snapped up by Montpellier in a heartbeat.
Puja
They won’t need to go on the politics board, which their mental health with be grateful for. Twitchy decried all X users as such on the Squidge thread.
Ah yes - the thread which I threatened to send to the Politics board; that's where I was confused. My mistake, carry on.
Puja wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 3:23 pm
Immediate thoughts - 6:2 bench split . Gods help us if we have injuries cause it's hardly the most flexible set of bench replacements ever - I'm guessing any centre injury would be covered by Smith to 15, Furbank to wing, and Freeman to centre which is... less than ideal, to put it mildly? This is doubly important considering Slade's newly back from injury and un-battle-hardened. If he gets injured or plays like a drain, we've got to disarrange our entire backline to bring him off (or put Earl there, which I'm increasingly worried might be plan A). If we're going to do 6:2, then I think I'd prefer to have Sleightholme at 23 and trust Furbank to cover 10 if Smith goes down.
Hope the Spencer-starting-having-better-confidence theories hold true, cause it'll be a long day if he plays like he did against Scotland and NZ. Good to see Randall on the bench - he'll offer something to change up the pace if we need it.
Very interesting to see that both Currys have apparently leapfrogged Underhill. I'm fully expecting 19-21 to be used to replace the entire back row and have Itoje/Martin play the 80. Possibly useful strategy against a very breakdown-focussed ABs? It's either genius or madness - either way, it's a plan I'd prefer if it was Chessum or Coles at 19, although we could do worse than Isiekwe.
Lastly, 4 vice-captains. Risible.
Aside from that, it's a good team and has the potential to be a very fun game. Weather forecast is dry, so hopefully we'll continue using the ball and attacking.
Puja
Is Underhill injured? He would have been my preference for openside ( or even blindside with Cunningham-South at 8 and Earl at 7 )
Puja wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 3:23 pm
Immediate thoughts - 6:2 bench split . Gods help us if we have injuries cause it's hardly the most flexible set of bench replacements ever - I'm guessing any centre injury would be covered by Smith to 15, Furbank to wing, and Freeman to centre which is... less than ideal, to put it mildly? This is doubly important considering Slade's newly back from injury and un-battle-hardened. If he gets injured or plays like a drain, we've got to disarrange our entire backline to bring him off (or put Earl there, which I'm increasingly worried might be plan A). If we're going to do 6:2, then I think I'd prefer to have Sleightholme at 23 and trust Furbank to cover 10 if Smith goes down.
Hope the Spencer-starting-having-better-confidence theories hold true, cause it'll be a long day if he plays like he did against Scotland and NZ. Good to see Randall on the bench - he'll offer something to change up the pace if we need it.
Very interesting to see that both Currys have apparently leapfrogged Underhill. I'm fully expecting 19-21 to be used to replace the entire back row and have Itoje/Martin play the 80. Possibly useful strategy against a very breakdown-focussed ABs? It's either genius or madness - either way, it's a plan I'd prefer if it was Chessum or Coles at 19, although we could do worse than Isiekwe.
Lastly, 4 vice-captains. Risible.
Aside from that, it's a good team and has the potential to be a very fun game. Weather forecast is dry, so hopefully we'll continue using the ball and attacking.
Puja
Is Underhill injured? He would have been my preference for openside ( or even blindside with Cunningham-South at 8 and Earl at 7 )
No, but then your preferences are regularly ignored by generations of selectors
Puja wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 3:23 pm
Immediate thoughts - 6:2 bench split . Gods help us if we have injuries cause it's hardly the most flexible set of bench replacements ever - I'm guessing any centre injury would be covered by Smith to 15, Furbank to wing, and Freeman to centre which is... less than ideal, to put it mildly? This is doubly important considering Slade's newly back from injury and un-battle-hardened. If he gets injured or plays like a drain, we've got to disarrange our entire backline to bring him off (or put Earl there, which I'm increasingly worried might be plan A). If we're going to do 6:2, then I think I'd prefer to have Sleightholme at 23 and trust Furbank to cover 10 if Smith goes down.
Hope the Spencer-starting-having-better-confidence theories hold true, cause it'll be a long day if he plays like he did against Scotland and NZ. Good to see Randall on the bench - he'll offer something to change up the pace if we need it.
Very interesting to see that both Currys have apparently leapfrogged Underhill. I'm fully expecting 19-21 to be used to replace the entire back row and have Itoje/Martin play the 80. Possibly useful strategy against a very breakdown-focussed ABs? It's either genius or madness - either way, it's a plan I'd prefer if it was Chessum or Coles at 19, although we could do worse than Isiekwe.
Lastly, 4 vice-captains. Risible.
Aside from that, it's a good team and has the potential to be a very fun game. Weather forecast is dry, so hopefully we'll continue using the ball and attacking.
Puja
Is Underhill injured? He would have been my preference for openside ( or even blindside with Cunningham-South at 8 and Earl at 7 )
No, but then your preferences are regularly ignored by generations of selectors
Puja wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 3:23 pm
Immediate thoughts - 6:2 bench split . Gods help us if we have injuries cause it's hardly the most flexible set of bench replacements ever - I'm guessing any centre injury would be covered by Smith to 15, Furbank to wing, and Freeman to centre which is... less than ideal, to put it mildly? This is doubly important considering Slade's newly back from injury and un-battle-hardened. If he gets injured or plays like a drain, we've got to disarrange our entire backline to bring him off (or put Earl there, which I'm increasingly worried might be plan A). If we're going to do 6:2, then I think I'd prefer to have Sleightholme at 23 and trust Furbank to cover 10 if Smith goes down.
Hope the Spencer-starting-having-better-confidence theories hold true, cause it'll be a long day if he plays like he did against Scotland and NZ. Good to see Randall on the bench - he'll offer something to change up the pace if we need it.
Very interesting to see that both Currys have apparently leapfrogged Underhill. I'm fully expecting 19-21 to be used to replace the entire back row and have Itoje/Martin play the 80. Possibly useful strategy against a very breakdown-focussed ABs? It's either genius or madness - either way, it's a plan I'd prefer if it was Chessum or Coles at 19, although we could do worse than Isiekwe.
Lastly, 4 vice-captains. Risible.
Aside from that, it's a good team and has the potential to be a very fun game. Weather forecast is dry, so hopefully we'll continue using the ball and attacking.
Puja
Is Underhill injured? He would have been my preference for openside ( or even blindside with Cunningham-South at 8 and Earl at 7 )
I believe TCurry is regarded as the better link-man.
Afternoon jngf! Good to have you back in here. Underhill's not injured, but I believe the recency of his return to fitness and lack of training was held against him (presumably in a different way to Slade and Ford).
Aumua, Finau, Roigard, McKenzie off the bench is a lot of dynamism to deal with.
It also made me laugh to see comments happy (from an NZ perspective) that Gardner is ref. Is he known for any particular style or something that would favour NZ specifically?
Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2024 12:40 pm
Aumua, Finau, Roigard, McKenzie off the bench is a lot of dynamism to deal with.
It also made me laugh to see comments happy (from an NZ perspective) that Gardner is ref. Is he known for any particular style or something that would favour NZ specifically?
He is very much a laissez-faire referee - will generally always go with the forward moving team at scrums (regardless of how they got there) and lets a lot go at the breakdown, both things which I think the Kiwis will fancy give them an advantage.
. Presumably if either of them were, they'd be snapped up by Montpellier in a heartbeat.
. Gods help us if we have injuries cause it's hardly the most flexible set of bench replacements ever - I'm guessing any centre injury would be covered by Smith to 15, Furbank to wing, and Freeman to centre which is... less than ideal, to put it mildly? This is doubly important considering Slade's newly back from injury and un-battle-hardened. If he gets injured or plays like a drain, we've got to disarrange our entire backline to bring him off (or put Earl there, which I'm increasingly worried might be plan A). If we're going to do 6:2, then I think I'd prefer to have Sleightholme at 23 and trust Furbank to cover 10 if Smith goes down.
