France v Wales Stade de France Friday night January 31st

[paddy no 11]

That was a difficult watch. I thought most of our players actually played as well as they are able to. Thats the depressing part. Its not as though half the team played crap and let the team down. That literally is as good as we can be.

Except Anscombe should be playing, I mean if he's reverting to Tompkins then there is no reason not to pick anscombe. Thomas on a hiding to nothing at 10 tonight

[Graigwen]

We were outclassed, as others have said. We were well behind in both strength and skill. It was bad, but not unexpected. We had a few bad bits of luck, and a couple of questionable refereeing decisions, but were always going to lose.

I thought Nicky Smith did well.

This has to be the nadir of our performances. There will be no hiding place next week.

.

[MrK]

Completely devoid of any ideas.

Admittedly we are missing Lake and Grady and Wainwright was off early, but if you are going to play Gatlands style of rugby you need ball carriers

We have players that work hard, G Thomas is a great example, and Dee and even D Jenkins and Reffel, but ball carriers they are not

We also ended up with as small a 10,12,13 combnation as I can remember - back to the 80s days

Gatlands style relies on punching holes yet he is not picking the players - I refuse to accept we dont have them, hes just not picking them - J Wiliams, LLewelyn, Carre although thats a moot point now. J Evans should be in that squad.

The 6N is already over for us, lets have a look at something different

T Williams and F Thomas in the second row
E James and J Roberts in the midfield

If Wainwright is out Id bring Mcleod in
If Watkin is out Id bring Llewelyn or J Williams in

[Son of Mathonwy]

My guess is:
France 45 - 18 Wales

Jesus, I was being overoptimistic. Nilled for the first time since 2007 (and that was our second and third choice players in Australia).

Dreadful and toothless, beaten not by brilliance but by power along with decent organisation. We could not make ground enough and kicked it away too much when we did get near their 22. Gatland and Howley's lateral attack is plain to see. We're missing players like North and Grady but then we're missing Llewellyn too - that's self-inflicted. Hopeless, and I mean that literally. Gatland needs to go.

Somehow they've got to pull themselves back together and believe they can win a match.

[Buggaluggs]

Not sure I can see us scoring the type of tries against Italy that Scotland is scoring today.

[Sandydragon]

My guess is:
France 45 - 18 Wales

Jesus, I was being overoptimistic. Nilled for the first time since 2007 (and that was our second and third choice players in Australia).

Dreadful and toothless, beaten not by brilliance but by power along with decent organisation. We could not make ground enough and kicked it away too much when we did get near their 22. Gatland and Howley's lateral attack is plain to see. We're missing players like North and Grady but then we're missing Llewellyn too - that's self-inflicted. Hopeless, and I mean that literally. Gatland needs to go.

Somehow they've got to pull themselves back together and believe they can win a match.

Bafflingly, if you are going to play the power game with tactics that used to suit Roberts and Davies, then why pick Tompkins and Watkin. The latter isn’t small but isn’t known for breaking the gainline at international level. Surely you would go for say James and Llewelyn?

Losing Watkin also meant we got 50 odd minutes of Thomas at inside centre so that centre partnership, whilst good in some ways, was trying to play a style it was totally unsuited for.

It’s harsh just to focus on the centres when the pack is so badly underpowered. We need to find a way to get over the gainline and if it can’t be by power alone then we need some guile.

[Son of Mathonwy]

My guess is:
France 45 - 18 Wales

Jesus, I was being overoptimistic. Nilled for the first time since 2007 (and that was our second and third choice players in Australia).

Dreadful and toothless, beaten not by brilliance but by power along with decent organisation. We could not make ground enough and kicked it away too much when we did get near their 22. Gatland and Howley's lateral attack is plain to see. We're missing players like North and Grady but then we're missing Llewellyn too - that's self-inflicted. Hopeless, and I mean that literally. Gatland needs to go.

Somehow they've got to pull themselves back together and believe they can win a match.

Bafflingly, if you are going to play the power game with tactics that used to suit Roberts and Davies, then why pick Tompkins and Watkin. The latter isn’t small but isn’t known for breaking the gainline at international level. Surely you would go for say James and Llewelyn?

Losing Watkin also meant we got 50 odd minutes of Thomas at inside centre so that centre partnership, whilst good in some ways, was trying to play a style it was totally unsuited for.

It’s harsh just to focus on the centres when the pack is so badly underpowered. We need to find a way to get over the gainline and if it can’t be by power alone then we need some guile.

Unfortunately Gatland and Howley have never done guile. In fact Gatland goes out of his way to exclude players who might do surprising things. Hence no Lloyd.

Agreed, the physicality problem is more with the forwards than the backs but we can only use players we have. Things will be a bit better on Lake's return but there just aren't too many big guys waiting to come it. Morse is pretty physical but he isn't a giant. Mackenzie Martin has the size but is he injured?? Tshiunza looks the part but doesn't seem to deliver.

But anyway, we need some players who can make an impact. Particularly while Grady is injured we need someone like Llewellyn, or even Jonny Williams. I'd also like to see Nagy given a shot for the same reason.

[Wallpaperman]

Weird game, the expected demolition in the set piece didn’t happen. Wales defended well, although in the end they shipped 7 tries. I’m not too sure about the second or third tries but they didn’t alter the result.

They were unlucky to lose Wainwright and Watkin so early, on the flip side the yellow might have been a red.

Don’t know why but I think they might be able to win in Rome.

[Sandydragon]

Weird game, the expected demolition in the set piece didn’t happen. Wales defended well, although in the end they shipped 7 tries. I’m not too sure about the second or third tries but they didn’t alter the result.

They were unlucky to lose Wainwright and Watkin so early, on the flip side the yellow might have been a red.

Don’t know why but I think they might be able to win in Rome.

We can’t change that much, but if we are to persist with Warrenball then let’s pick some players who can play it. Sadly both centres can’t and we need some physical specimens there to get over the gainline. We aren’t going to create the style of 2005 in a week so we might as well do the best we can with the structure we have.

[Numbers]

It is odd that when Gatland took over originally he started the craze of big ball carrying 12s to make gainline and quick 2nd phase ball, everyone else seems to have adopted that since yet we have gone away from it when we are desperate for some gainline, I think Eddie James has to start the next match.

What was also odd was to see him throw in Dan Edwards after 27 minutes, he could have bought on Murray and moved Adams to 13 which would have been less disruptive, I'm pretty sure the plan would have been to bring Edwards on at about 60 minutes to give a second playmaker option.

Adams put in some good tackles but not sure what he was doing for the first try, he wasn't marking anyone, I think for the second he was hoping to get an interception but misread the pass, following the ball rather than the man. Liam was nowhere near his best and looked a little pedestrian, I think Rogers to fullback for the next game, especially if Liam is carrying an injury, and Murray onto the wing with Hathaway on the bench.

Forwards wise I think we may need some ballast in the backrow, I think Freddie Thomas at 6 as Botham will most likely be playing 8, Tshiunza, Williams or Plumtree on the bench, the front rows were good so keep them and starting second row also.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Hey, at least the U20s were in the game for the first half.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Gatland still isn't calling Llewellyn up, despite Watkin's injury. What is he thinking? What has Gatland seen that's made him totally go off Llewellyn since the Autumn? Is it just stubbornness now? Cannot admit a mistake?

[Numbers]

Gatland still isn't calling Llewellyn up, despite Watkin's injury. What is he thinking? What has Gatland seen that's made him totally go off Llewellyn since the Autumn? Is it just stubbornness now? Cannot admit a mistake?

You'd think at worst he would get him in in case there are any more injuries, the mind boggles.

[pompey-zebra]

Gatland still isn't calling Llewellyn up, despite Watkin's injury. What is he thinking? What has Gatland seen that's made him totally go off Llewellyn since the Autumn? Is it just stubbornness now? Cannot admit a mistake?

You'd think at worst he would get him in in case there are any more injuries, the mind boggles.

Indeed, I'd have thought that any potential replacements would be brought in as early as possible to get them to tl speec with the rest of the squad.

As for Llewellyn, he's had the dreaded Gatland " he's been spoken to" about what he needs to work on. I sometimes think this seems to be Gatland- speak for " he's not what I'm looking for" as for players who have been spoken to ( Llewellyn Dyer, Jonny Williams Morgan Morris etc) its been the kiss of death for selection. Of course it could be they just havent responded to what Gatland's wants from them, but only the players and Gatland know that for sure. From the outside Llewellyn seems to have done plenty to justify his selection.

[Sandydragon]

It feels like Gatland is being stubborn about Llewelyn.

In an indifferent autumn, he was alright. Nothing world class but showed plenty of promise. If we want to get over the gainline then let’s play a big bugger and see if Gatland ball can still work. Please God, let’s not have a combination of Thomas and Tompkins again.

[Sandydragon]

Apparently the problem was that we didn’t kick enough. We tried to over play in our half.

Right.

So nothing about an utterly predictable attack,
Slow ruck speed
A leaky defence

And we can apparently ignore the fact that for over 50 minutes we had two kickers in our backline at ten and twelve.

Even if we somehow beat Italy, who are deservedly favourites, this farce is damaging Welsh rugby. It’s not all Gatlands fault for sure, but it feels like we’re trying to play the wrong tactics with this team and some of the selection omissions are odd.