RugbyRebels

Banquo wrote:weak chase imo, too many got themselves out.

That seems to apply just about every time we bat. Though that is in part how test cricket is played now, I might think a touch more patient or at least judicious approach is warranted but as so often what I'd opt for differs from the practice.

I think Vince, Ali and Finn are, or should be all on shoogly pegs. Ballance may end up there too. Hales has bought himself a wee bit of time based on others being poor and a decent series v an admittedly poor Sri Lanka.

Taking Ali first, he is supposedly a better batsman than the rest, well he only averages around 2.5 runs more that Rashid. And Rashid has significantly more wickets in FC cricket. England are going to have to take at least 3 spinners on tour in the winter. Would be sensible to give another 1 a run out.

Finn, Anderson will definitely come back in, took 3 in Durhams 1st innings and got through 20 odd overs without breaking. I would consider holding Stokes back until he has some more cricket in him. He only has 4 FC or test matches in him this year. Woakes has been excellent this summer (19 wickets at 13.26, and currently enjoying a NO bolstered 54 with the bat), and if J Ball is the next in line I think it is better to give him game time in favourable conditions rather than Bangladesh or India.

Vince is a tricky one, young player who needs a run in the side but has not really shown anything in his 4 tests. Who could replace him will be interesting. Borthwick bats at 3 for Durham and is a leggie, Buttler is an option but needs more red ball game time, Bell Drummond or even Sam Robson are options too.

This one's a bit better.
Nice century up for the skipper.
190-1

Root's century up as well - and now let's hope he keeps his head in the game and goes on for a big un.

Good score on a pitch thats flat as a witches tit . More worrying are whats going on with Ballance & Vince . Both facing bowlers who have had tiring day in the field and yet unab;le to post a decent score between them . One more chance I reckon and get ready for some new batting names .

Discreet Hooker wrote:Good score on a pitch thats flat as a witches tit . More worrying are whats going on with Ballance & Vince . Both facing bowlers who have had tiring day in the field and yet unab;le to post a decent score between them . One more chance I reckon and get ready for some new batting names .

I wasn't that annoyed at Ballance, it wasn't the right shot but it wasn't a shocker, Vince's was just poor but at least it was the only one of the 1st day and that shift from giving away wickets for free at Lords was much better.

Younis has to be close to being sent from the slips to do some work on the boundary

Stokes is unlucky. Can't see how that was conclusive proof. The hotspot mark was already there if you ask me, and the noise came from his feet. Any decision that takes that long to decide on should be classed as "umpires call".

What a crap over from Ali, it's not been good until he came on but that was awful

Kahn goes gloving it down the legside. A horrid way to get out, but if you walk/jump across like that it ups the chance.

Well its looking like the England team can boast two genuine all~rounders in Stokes & Woakes plus a wicketkeeper batsman .

Downside is that Swan is still missed with no apparent replacement , plus a couple of batting spots still up for grabs .

Hoping Broad & Anderson mop up the tail today but looking good anyway .

Discreet Hooker wrote:
Downside is that Swan is still missed with no apparent replacement .

It seems truly weird. Warne once said of Monty he's played he'd first test 30 odd times as he wasn't developing, but at least from his first test Monty looked a decent bowler who could take wickets. I don't recall anyone at Worcester thinking Ali more than a batsman who could bowl a little, and thus in his first test he looked a poor bowler, and now closing in on 30 tests later he looks a poor bowler, and as it continues you get the feel this lot would've picked Hick as the spinner.

Errr... what? 390 up, and we don't enforce the follow-on?

Surely the bowlers aren't THAT tired!

390 could very easily be enough to win the match by an innings; batting again gives a significant risk of a draw; even if it doesn't keep raining.

Very odd, 60 overs in, 4 bowlers in the lineup and Ali, and rests coming with the rain breaks.

Another strong showing from Moeen before lunch. Still, after the absurd batting was finally brought to a close England remain in a very, very strong position with Pakistan 2 down for 50 odd going into lunch.

In fairness to Moeen he's picked up two wickets since lunch, and whilst one of them was the batsman losing the plot and holing out on the boundary trying to save the game the other was a legitimate wicket, the ball pitched in a good area drew the batsman onto the line, and then spun took a glance and made it to short leg. There have been some rank full tosses, really, really full full tosses, which only makes the idea you'd need to force scoring against him still an odder notion, but still, someone like Such would've been happy with the genuine wicket ball, and if he could be more like Such as a bowler that'd more than do.

Fair play to Woakes as he now looks firmly at home in Test match cricket. I thought he looked like a county player playing test cricket who would take the odd wicket but generally struggle. Same with Simon Kerrigan who i think made his debut in the same match,if not then certainly the same series. Both looked miles away from being ready. Just goes to show with some you have to stick with them and let them develop. I still think Ballance is utter crap though........

I thought Woakes was a bit powder puff for test cricket, and of course we're yet to see he can replicate this in SA or Oz, and even more India and Sri Lanka, but he's nailed on to get the chance to show he can develop his game. Congrats to him, he's done brilliantly to progress and deliver

Big D wrote:I think Vince, Ali and Finn are, or should be all on shoogly pegs. Ballance may end up there too. Hales has bought himself a wee bit of time based on others being poor and a decent series v an admittedly poor Sri Lanka.

Taking Ali first, he is supposedly a better batsman than the rest, well he only averages around 2.5 runs more that Rashid. And Rashid has significantly more wickets in FC cricket. England are going to have to take at least 3 spinners on tour in the winter. Would be sensible to give another 1 a run out.

Finn, Anderson will definitely come back in, took 3 in Durhams 1st innings and got through 20 odd overs without breaking. I would consider holding Stokes back until he has some more cricket in him. He only has 4 FC or test matches in him this year. Woakes has been excellent this summer (19 wickets at 13.26, and currently enjoying a NO bolstered 54 with the bat), and if J Ball is the next in line I think it is better to give him game time in favourable conditions rather than Bangladesh or India.

Vince is a tricky one, young player who needs a run in the side but has not really shown anything in his 4 tests. Who could replace him will be interesting. Borthwick bats at 3 for Durham and is a leggie, Buttler is an option but needs more red ball game time, Bell Drummond or even Sam Robson are options too.

I would have him in the side for Ballance personally and take the gloves. If all fit then Stokes at 6,Buttler 7,Woakes 8,Rashid/Ali 9 and Broad at 10 amuses me.

skidger wrote:

Big D wrote:I think Vince, Ali and Finn are, or should be all on shoogly pegs. Ballance may end up there too. Hales has bought himself a wee bit of time based on others being poor and a decent series v an admittedly poor Sri Lanka.

Taking Ali first, he is supposedly a better batsman than the rest, well he only averages around 2.5 runs more that Rashid. And Rashid has significantly more wickets in FC cricket. England are going to have to take at least 3 spinners on tour in the winter. Would be sensible to give another 1 a run out.

Finn, Anderson will definitely come back in, took 3 in Durhams 1st innings and got through 20 odd overs without breaking. I would consider holding Stokes back until he has some more cricket in him. He only has 4 FC or test matches in him this year. Woakes has been excellent this summer (19 wickets at 13.26, and currently enjoying a NO bolstered 54 with the bat), and if J Ball is the next in line I think it is better to give him game time in favourable conditions rather than Bangladesh or India.

Vince is a tricky one, young player who needs a run in the side but has not really shown anything in his 4 tests. Who could replace him will be interesting. Borthwick bats at 3 for Durham and is a leggie, Buttler is an option but needs more red ball game time, Bell Drummond or even Sam Robson are options too.

I would have him in the side for Ballance personally and take the gloves. If all fit then Stokes at 6,Buttler 7,Woakes 8,Rashid/Ali 9 and Broad at 10 amuses me.

What about the following? After all, Ali is more a batsman that bowls...

Cook
Hales
Root
Ali
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson

The bowling options are impressive, and the batting isn't any worse than it currently is. Buttler is a better keeper than Bairstow and Bairstow a better outfielder than Vince.

If Hales doesn't pick up any runs against Pakistan, then Robson may be worth a look, or maybe just go straight for Bell-Drummond, who is looking impressive.

Stom wrote: What about the following? After all, Ali is more a batsman that bowls...

Cook
Hales
Root
Ali
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson

The bowling options are impressive, and the batting isn't any worse than it currently is. Buttler is a better keeper than Bairstow and Bairstow a better outfielder than Vince.

If Hales doesn't pick up any runs against Pakistan, then Robson may be worth a look, or maybe just go straight for Bell-Drummond, who is looking impressive.

I think I would give Hales the winter. He has at least shown he can score at international level (even if against poor opposition), Vince and then Ballance this time around have yet to do so. Changing 3 batsmen is a bit much IMO.

Although I think we'll end up seeing Ali higher up the order in the winter I sort of feel like he and Stokes have a lot to prove with the bat. In Stokes case, Woakes is making a better claim to be no.1 all rounder and I am a big Stokes fan. England run the risk of filling their middle order with guys who come off only occasionally.

Stokes - 25 tests - Average 33.23 - 96FC games - Average 34.29
Ali - 28 tests - 29.87 - 153FC games - 38.08 - Bats much higher for Worcs.
Woakes - 10 tests - 35.00 - 117FC games - 37.26
Rashid - 3 tests - 20.60 - 148FC games - 35.47

Those averages are very good for bowlers, but really at the minute Ali is a batsman who bowls a bit, and Stokes is still mastering his bowling craft.

My preference would be to give one of the younger batsman a go I think. The guys for England A have been having a party in the ODIs and Bell-Drummond has been there or there abouts for a couple of seasons.

Maybe something like this for the last couple of tests (Assuming Buttler is injured and hasn't played red ball cricket):
Cook
Hales
Root
Ballance/Vince - last chance saloon
Bell-Drummond
Bairstow
Stokes - Wood batting at 10 if Stokes out.
Woakes
Rashid/Ali - Rashid needs a game in one of the two IMO
Broad
Anderson

Then in the winter:
Cook
Hales
Root
Borthwick (or Buttler or Rashid lower down the order)
Bell-Drummond
Bairstow
Stokes
Woakes
Ali
Broad
Anderson

I would certainly give Vince the next two tests and the winter. If Hales does not do anything over the next two matches i am not sure about giving him the openers spot in India.

skidger wrote:Fair play to Woakes as he now looks firmly at home in Test match cricket. I thought he looked like a county player playing test cricket who would take the odd wicket but generally struggle. Same with Simon Kerrigan who i think made his debut in the same match,if not then certainly the same series. Both looked miles away from being ready. Just goes to show with some you have to stick with them and let them develop. I still think Ballance is utter crap though........

woakes has added c 3 mph to his speed and its made all the difference.

Buttler should take the gloves and move Bairstow up; Ballance and/or Vince should go. I'd also give Rashid a go for Moeen, though harsh. Mind, Stokes is out which changes things a bit.

Stom wrote:

skidger wrote:

Big D wrote:I think Vince, Ali and Finn are, or should be all on shoogly pegs. Ballance may end up there too. Hales has bought himself a wee bit of time based on others being poor and a decent series v an admittedly poor Sri Lanka.

Taking Ali first, he is supposedly a better batsman than the rest, well he only averages around 2.5 runs more that Rashid. And Rashid has significantly more wickets in FC cricket. England are going to have to take at least 3 spinners on tour in the winter. Would be sensible to give another 1 a run out.

Finn, Anderson will definitely come back in, took 3 in Durhams 1st innings and got through 20 odd overs without breaking. I would consider holding Stokes back until he has some more cricket in him. He only has 4 FC or test matches in him this year. Woakes has been excellent this summer (19 wickets at 13.26, and currently enjoying a NO bolstered 54 with the bat), and if J Ball is the next in line I think it is better to give him game time in favourable conditions rather than Bangladesh or India.

Vince is a tricky one, young player who needs a run in the side but has not really shown anything in his 4 tests. Who could replace him will be interesting. Borthwick bats at 3 for Durham and is a leggie, Buttler is an option but needs more red ball game time, Bell Drummond or even Sam Robson are options too.

I would have him in the side for Ballance personally and take the gloves. If all fit then Stokes at 6,Buttler 7,Woakes 8,Rashid/Ali 9 and Broad at 10 amuses me.

What about the following? After all, Ali is more a batsman that bowls...

Cook
Hales
Root
Ali
Bairstow
Stokes
Buttler
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson

The bowling options are impressive, and the batting isn't any worse than it currently is. Buttler is a better keeper than Bairstow and Bairstow a better outfielder than Vince.

If Hales doesn't pick up any runs against Pakistan, then Robson may be worth a look, or maybe just go straight for Bell-Drummond, who is looking impressive.

Can't see Ali as a test class 4. Averages 38 in f/c, 30 in tests.

Any thoughts on Finn being overlooked at long last ?