RugbyRebels

zer0 wrote:To take it a step further, the RWC, Womens RWC, U20 WC, Sevens RWC and Womens Sevens RWC are all in the NZRU trophy cabinet. Plus the Bledisloe and a few other minor bits of metal, I'm sure.

Ta Daaaa!!



All five Rugby World Cups.

Sh*t is good, man.

This weekend South Africa will play its 43rd away game* against the All Blacks, looking for just their 10th win. Although not great, this is still the best record of a visiting team in New Zealand:

SA: 9 wins, 2 draws from 42 = 23.80%
Lions: 7 wins, 4 draws from 41 = 21.95%
Aust: 17 wins, 1 draws from 82 = 21.34%
France: 4 wins from 28 = 14.28%
England: 2 wins from 15 = 13.33%
Everyone else: 0.00%

It will be SA’s second away game in NZ not held at the principal ground of a major centre** following their 2009 win in Hamilton.

*Not including 3 RWC matches on neutral territory
**Carisbrook, Eden Park, Athletic Park, Lancaster Park/Jade Stadium, Cake Tin, Forsyth Barr, Rugby League Park

Lizard wrote:

zer0 wrote:TI'm not sure there is any current trophy for which an NZ rep team is eligible that we don't hold.

Olympic medals aren't don't count then

Well medals aren't trophies, so yes.

The only ones anybody really cares about are the World Cup, the 6 Nations and the Olympic 7s. We got one, aren't eligible for another, and Fiji got the third.

Ross. S wrote:

Lizard wrote:

zer0 wrote:TI'm not sure there is any current trophy for which an NZ rep team is eligible that we don't hold.

Olympic medals aren't don't count then

Fair point. I'd rather have 7s World Cups than Olympic gold though.

rowan wrote:The only ones anybody really cares about are the World Cup, the 6 Nations and the Olympic 7s. We got one, aren't eligible for another, and Fiji got the third.

"We"?

and we have two world cups. The mens and de weemins.

morepork wrote:

rowan wrote:The only ones anybody really cares about are the World Cup, the 6 Nations and the Olympic 7s. We got one, aren't eligible for another, and Fiji got the third.

"We"?

and we have two world cups. The mens and de weemins.

You old Neanderthal!

I must say tho, that this table is something beautiful to behold: http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/wo ... -cup/table

The Springboks have conceded 50+ points on 5 occasions. 4 of those have come at the hands of the All Blacks. The other was courtesy of the English in 2002.

This is the first time they have failed to score while conceding 50+.

All Blacks hit 57 last time they played the Springboks too, I believe. It's becoming a habit.

Looking at team wins scoring 50+ while keeping a clean sheet, Argentina are well ahead with 17, all against other South American opposition.

Japan and Romania are second equal with 8. Japan's are all against other Asian teams but Romania's list includes some North African oppo a well as Europeans.

Of the "tier 1 nations", NZ leads with 5 (5th= overall with Fiji and Hong Kong) - once against each of the Pacific Islands, Ireland and now SA. NZ are the only team to achieve this feat twice against tier 1 opposition.

England has 4 (Arg, Netherlands, Romania, Canada).

On 3 are Aussie (England, Tonga, Namibia), Ireland (v Rom, Geo, Can), SA (v Italy, Namibia, USA), Wales (v Spain, Japan, Fiji).

On the other side of the ledger, of the top sides, Argentina, SA, England, Ireland and Wales have all been on the receiving end.

Of course, South Africa's 0-44 win over Scotland in 1951 would have been 0-62 by today's scoring values, with 9 tries, 7 conversions and a drop-goal. Not a single penalty, because in those days there were far fewer than today, in spite of all kinds of efforts to reverse the trend, including changing the scoring values. So that 0-44 win stood out among lopsided results among the leading playing nations of the amateur era, and was only surpassed during the shamateur and early pro eras when basically still amateur Home Unions headed Down Under to be torn asunder.

Also, I'm not sure how low you are prepared to go with this, but Guatemala beat El Salvador 114-0 a month or so ago, while Namibia blanked Senegal 95-0 in the African Gold Cup in July and Portugal beat Moldova 59-0 in the ENC 2nd division March - and I'm sure I could dig up plenty more examples from bygone years if I had a few months available to do the research . . .

rowan wrote:Of course, South Africa's 0-44 win over Scotland in 1951 would have been 0-62 by today's scoring values, with 9 tries, 7 conversions and a drop-goal. Not a single penalty, because in those days there were far fewer than today, in spite of all kinds of efforts to reverse the trend, including changing the scoring values. So that 0-44 win stood out among lopsided results among the leading playing nations of the amateur era, and was only surpassed during the shamateur and early pro eras when basically still amateur Home Unions headed Down Under to be torn asunder.

Good point

rowan wrote:Also, I'm not sure how low you are prepared to go with this, but Guatemala beat El Salvador 114-0 a month or so ago, while Namibia blanked Senegal 95-0 in the African Gold Cup in July and Portugal beat Moldova 59-0 in the ENC 2nd division March - and I'm sure I could dig up plenty more examples from bygone years if I had a few months available to do the research . . .

Yes, there's shitloads of 50+ to 0 results; 179 overall, I think. Brazil alone has been involved in 14 - 6 on the winning side and 8 on the losing side.

This: https://keo.co.za/springboks-statistical-shocker/

The All Blacks have scored 1920 points against the Springboks, conceding 1458. The overall balance was generally in favour of the Springboks until the post-apartheid/professional era and most of this 462 point discrepancy has accumulated in the last few years. Below is the break down by decade. Remember that in the amateur days, NZ played only 3 to 8 tests per decade against the Springboks, as opposed to 20+

This list gives the cumulative points difference by decade, the average points difference per test for that decade and then the cumulative per test figure in brackets.

Whichever way you slice it, this century has not been kind to South African rugby.

1920s: -9, -1.3 (-1.3)
1930s: -21, -4.0 (-2.1)
1940s: -40, -4.8 (-2.9)
1950s: -28, +3.0 (-1.6)
1960s: -8, +2.5 (-0.3)
1970s: -41, -4.1 (-1.2)
1980s: -45, -1.3* (-1.2)
1990s: +35, +4.7 (+0.6)
2000s: +212, +7.4 (+2.7)
2010s: +462, +15.6 (+4.9)

*excluding Cavaliers tour

cashead wrote:The Springboks have conceded 50+ points on 5 occasions. 4 of those have come at the hands of the All Blacks. The other was courtesy of the English in 2002.

This is the first time they have failed to score while conceding 50+.

I had a look at the RC table before the game, and it was obvious that the All Blacks (while dominant) had been shipping a lot more tries than usual, as well. The Against figures were markedly higher than normal, even as you could make the same case for the For column.

I expected us to win in similar manner to the game against Australia ... something like 50 to 30 would have been more in keeping with the rest of this season.

57 - 0 against South Africa is just gob-smacking.

Indeed!

TRC Points conceded per game by season:

2012: Arg 27.7, Aus 22.8, NZ 11.0, SA 18.2
2013: Arg 37.3, Aus 28.3, NZ 19.2, SA 19.5
2014: Arg 26.2, Aus 26.7, NZ 15.2, SA 18.3
2015*: Arg 32.7, Aus 16.0, NZ 21.7, SA 29.3
2016: Arg 36.0, Aus 24.5, NZ 14.0, SA 30.0
2017**: Arg 40.5, Aus 33.0, NZ 21.25, SA 29.5

*3 round tournament
**After 4 rounds

I’m not sure there’s much in the way of a pattern. So far there’s a bit of an uptick this year for everyone except the Springboks.

Lizard wrote:TRC Points conceded per game by season:

2012: Arg 27.7, Aus 22.8, NZ 11.0, SA 18.2
2013: Arg 37.3, Aus 28.3, NZ 19.2, SA 19.5
2014: Arg 26.2, Aus 26.7, NZ 15.2, SA 18.3
2015*: Arg 32.7, Aus 16.0, NZ 21.7, SA 29.3
2016: Arg 36.0, Aus 24.5, NZ 14.0, SA 30.0
2017**: Arg 40.5, Aus 33.0, NZ 21.25, SA 29.5

*3 round tournament
**After 4 rounds

I’m not sure there’s much in the way of a pattern. So far there’s a bit of an uptick this year for everyone except the Springboks.

Yes, but with only 4 games counted, a 0 in the Against column can change the average significantly.

21.25 x 4 = 85.

Since Game 4 was a 0 Against, for 3 games 85/3 = 28.33 ... more than an extra converted try per game.

That's a high average for the All Blacks, but unremarkable for Argentina, recent South African sides, and occasional Australian sides.

Interesting stats.

The last year in which the All Blacks failed to post at least one score of 50+ was 2009, when they peaked at 39-12 v France in the last test of the year.

Amazing!