RugbyRebels

So much for the ceasefire. It's almost like Israel don't really want one.

Unless there are consequences for Israel, the genocide will continue.

Just looked up what had happened and was struck by the first sentence of the Guardian article, "Israel launched waves of lethal airstrikes on Sunday and cut off all aid into Gaza 'until further notice' after a reported attack by Hamas."

Sooooo, we're not longer even pretending anymore that they're not engaging in the war crime of collective punishment, huh? Just openly reporting Israel saying, "Yeah, two of our soldiers were killed, so we're cutting off food to the entire area," but somehow not making that our headline?

Wild.

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Oct 20, 2025 1:00 am Just looked up what had happened and was struck by the first sentence of the Guardian article, "Israel launched waves of lethal airstrikes on Sunday and cut off all aid into Gaza 'until further notice' after a reported attack by Hamas."

Sooooo, we're not longer even pretending anymore that they're not engaging in the war crime of collective punishment, huh? Just openly reporting Israel saying, "Yeah, two of our soldiers were killed, so we're cutting off food to the entire area," but somehow not making that our headline?

Wild.

Puja

Another day, another war crime. Except even a supposedly progressive newspaper has given up on calling them out. Another victory for the normalization of genocide.

And if you google IDF killed by own explosives you'll see that they've suffered a load of 'friendly fire' and Darwin-award-level deaths in the last 2 years. If an Israeli soldier dies now, why would we believe them when they say Hamas did it? More likely another case of genosuicide .

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 19, 2025 11:10 pm So much for the ceasefire. It's almost like Israel don't really want one.

Unless there are consequences for Israel, the genocide will continue.

Its not entirely clear that all the Hamas leadership want one either. Regrettably, without courageous and sensible leadership on both sides, this wont last the long term.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Sun Oct 26, 2025 4:38 pm

Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 19, 2025 11:10 pm So much for the ceasefire. It's almost like Israel don't really want one.

Unless there are consequences for Israel, the genocide will continue.

Its not entirely clear that all the Hamas leadership want one either. Regrettably, without courageous and sensible leadership on both sides, this wont last the long term.

The difference is very much one of collective punishment and scale though. Israel control the food, water, electricity, fuel, medicine, and internet supply for the entire territory, as well as having a fully-equipped and well-armed military who have the political cover to kill or imprison anyone for any reason and face zero repercussions for it. On the other side, Hamas are a bunch of terrorist fuckwits with guns. The two are very clearly not equivalent.

For Israel to say that deliberately starving 2 million people is an appropriate response to 2 soldiers being murdered, by terrorists, is utterly psychotic. One cannot just shake their head and say, "Ah, well, both sides are being bad, what can you do?"

Puja

I’m not arguing with you on the disproportionate nature of Israeli policy. But if you want long term peace then both sides need to be prepared to take risk and make concessions. I don’t see much evidence of that.

Hamas is very happy to hide behind the Palestinian population and let them get killed, whilst senior leadership enjoys itself in the Gulf States.

For this to work there needs to be a change of government in Israel, which is quite possible, with the hardliners sidelines. There also needs to be regime change Gaza, which I suspect Hamas will not want.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Mon Oct 27, 2025 10:04 am I’m not arguing with you on the disproportionate nature of Israeli policy. But if you want long term peace then both sides need to be prepared to take risk and make concessions. I don’t see much evidence of that.

Hamas is very happy to hide behind the Palestinian population and let them get killed, whilst senior leadership enjoys itself in the Gulf States.

For this to work there needs to be a change of government in Israel, which is quite possible, with the hardliners sidelines. There also needs to be regime change Gaza, which I suspect Hamas will not want.

What is your view of the last couple of years in Israel and Palestine?

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Mon Oct 27, 2025 10:04 am I’m not arguing with you on the disproportionate nature of Israeli policy. But if you want long term peace then both sides need to be prepared to take risk and make concessions. I don’t see much evidence of that.

Hamas is very happy to hide behind the Palestinian population and let them get killed, whilst senior leadership enjoys itself in the Gulf States.

For this to work there needs to be a change of government in Israel, which is quite possible, with the hardliners sidelines. There also needs to be regime change Gaza, which I suspect Hamas will not want.

One can't happen without the other though. Israel is keeping Hamas in power at present on two grounds. The first is logistical - there has not been an election since 2014 (and that one involved Hamas fighters "inspecting" polling stations) - Israel have controlled pretty much the entire Gazan security apparatus over that time, so they either do not want an election because it's politically useful to have the boogyman next door or didn't care enough about what Gaza did before the terrorist attack to make one happen.

The second is motivational - Israel has razed the entire area and killed 70,000 people (not including deaths from starvation or illness), and their politicians are openly speaking about continuing and doing worse. This does tend to increase public support for terrorist bastards who promise to take revenge. Plus crushed infrastructure and communities also means crushing any chance of non-democratic regime change because people can't group or organise.

Sandydragon wrote: ↑Mon Oct 27, 2025 10:04 am...if you want long term peace then both sides need to be prepared to take risk and make concessions.

What further concessions can the Gazan populace make?

Puja