Snap General Election called

[Son of Mathonwy]

I've seen this posted, but not referenced. Assuming its accuracy, I thought it was quite interesting:

I really thought I would get to vote for the winning party this time, for the first time. I must read the main manifestos first (to be thorough) . . . but I'm thinking I'm unlikely to vote for Labour now. Starmer's just demolished most of the reasons I had for voting Labour. And the Gaza stance just proves his utter lack of moral compass - something you can't just lose and maybe find again. And I'm a labour party member! Cray-zee

There's always a chance Starmer might rip up his manifesto, just like he ripped up his pledges, and do something substantially different from the Tories. But I think it's unlikely. The way I see it, he'll be battered by the media mercilessly for all the things that are wrong with the country now, which will prove very difficult to fix without departing from the Tory script, till he loses to 1) best case, a newly-centrist Tory party, or 2) worst case, Farage, leading whatever the party of the right will be called in 5 years.

NB I have the 'luxury' of living in a strong Labour seat, so can be chilled about my vote, which will be wasted (ie it won't change the outcome) whatever I do with it.

If he's not stupid he'll regulate our media properly.

Yeah, hope so. Or will he get pally with Murdoch like Blair did?

[Sandydragon]

I’d suggest the most obvious reform is that an owner can only own one outlet, of any type. Multiple papers etc reflecting the viewpoint of one person/ company isn’t healthy.

[Son of Mathonwy]

I’d suggest the most obvious reform is that an owner can only own one outlet, of any type. Multiple papers etc reflecting the viewpoint of one person/ company isn’t healthy.

That would be very welcome, but I'd go further and - for big outlets - ban any single person (or group of connected persons) having a controlling interest.

I will say that I doubt Starmer will make any significant changes to media regulations. I hope I'm wrong.

[Mikey Brown]

Starmer on LBC taking questions right now and err... lol so far.

[morepork]

Fuck me . Captain Buzzkill . What a sopping wet blanket.

[Sandydragon]

Fuck me . Captain Buzzkill . What a sopping wet blanket.

At the moment that's a huge improvement on the current psychodrama.

[Which Tyler]

All these Tory MPs who were supposedly surprised by the timing of the elections should maybe have been hanging out at the Westminster branch of Ladbrokes.

[Son of Mathonwy]

I've read (or skimmed) the main manifestos, just for completeness.

Tories - if you want more of the same, plus national service, this is it.
Labour - not really very left-wing. Not really that different to the Tories, except they make nicer noises on climate change and immigration. But in the end they only plan to spend about 10BN more than the Tories (mostly funded from minor changes to tax), which is less than 1% of government spending (approx £1.2TN). So it can't possibly make much difference.
LibDems - very similar to Labour, perhaps more left-wing if anything. They barely mention the EU (although more than Labour). No fiscal plan given but like Labour, unlikely to really change much.
Green - the real left-wing party. They actually have plans to spend significantly more on health, Education, Green economy, and tax the wealthy more. They'd also limit media ownership.
Reform UK - I agree with them about PR. Not much else.

Under PR I'd vote Green. In this bullshit system the best we can hope for is to get the Tories out. Actually that's not completely true. Best case, there's a small but realistic chance of pushing the Tories down to third place behind the LibDems. That would be spectacular, and good for the country. And fucking hilarious. So if the LibDems have a decent chance in a seat I'd say vote for them. Labour are so far ahead that they can afford to lose 20 seats to the Libdems for this noble goal.

So vote tactically :
https://www.getvoting.org/tactical-voting/

For me (safe Labour seat) I'm free to vote however I like (my vote will make no difference to the outcome). So it's Green for me.

[Puja]

I've read (or skimmed) the main manifestos, just for completeness.

Tories - if you want more of the same, plus national service, this is it.
Labour - not really very left-wing. Not really that different to the Tories, except they make nicer noises on climate change and immigration. But in the end they only plan to spend about 10BN more than the Tories (mostly funded from minor changes to tax), which is less than 1% of government spending (approx £1.2TN). So it can't possibly make much difference.
LibDems - very similar to Labour, perhaps more left-wing if anything. They barely mention the EU (although more than Labour). No fiscal plan given but like Labour, unlikely to really change much.
Green - the real left-wing party. They actually have plans to spend significantly more on health, Education, Green economy, and tax the wealthy more. They'd also limit media ownership.
Reform UK - I agree with them about PR. Not much else.

Under PR I'd vote Green. In this bullshit system the best we can hope for is to get the Tories out. Actually that's not completely true. Best case, there's a small but realistic chance of pushing the Tories down to third place behind the LibDems. That would be spectacular, and good for the country. And fucking hilarious. So if the LibDems have a decent chance in a seat I'd say vote for them. Labour are so far ahead that they can afford to lose 20 seats to the Libdems for this noble goal.

So vote tactically :
https://www.getvoting.org/tactical-voting/

For me (safe Labour seat) I'm free to vote however I like (my vote will make no difference to the outcome). So it's Green for me.

Can't disagree with that as a summary. I get some rugby news from the Telegraph (using a thing to allow me to bypass the paywall - I'm not funding the abominable shitrag that that paper's become) and occasionally I get clickbaited into reading an article from the news section. Usually all I gain from it is chagrin because the article's even worse than the headline would lead you to believe, but I was tickled pink today to see one in favour of PR and pointing out how awful and undemocratic it was that Reform and Tories were going to get a combined total of votes similar to Labour (according to their polls), but be in danger of getting less seats combined than the Lib Dems. It walked a beautifully hilarious line of "It was fine for us to tell the Lib Dems to fuck off when we were benefitting, but now things have changed and FPtP is no longer fit for purpose".

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... first-pas/

Amusingly, my constituency has gone from a safe Conservative seat to a safe Labour seat in the space of one election, so my vote will, once again, matter not even a little bit. Green for me as well.

Puja

[Son of Mathonwy]

I've read (or skimmed) the main manifestos, just for completeness.

Tories - if you want more of the same, plus national service, this is it.
Labour - not really very left-wing. Not really that different to the Tories, except they make nicer noises on climate change and immigration. But in the end they only plan to spend about 10BN more than the Tories (mostly funded from minor changes to tax), which is less than 1% of government spending (approx £1.2TN). So it can't possibly make much difference.
LibDems - very similar to Labour, perhaps more left-wing if anything. They barely mention the EU (although more than Labour). No fiscal plan given but like Labour, unlikely to really change much.
Green - the real left-wing party. They actually have plans to spend significantly more on health, Education, Green economy, and tax the wealthy more. They'd also limit media ownership.
Reform UK - I agree with them about PR. Not much else.

Under PR I'd vote Green. In this bullshit system the best we can hope for is to get the Tories out. Actually that's not completely true. Best case, there's a small but realistic chance of pushing the Tories down to third place behind the LibDems. That would be spectacular, and good for the country. And fucking hilarious. So if the LibDems have a decent chance in a seat I'd say vote for them. Labour are so far ahead that they can afford to lose 20 seats to the Libdems for this noble goal.

So vote tactically :
https://www.getvoting.org/tactical-voting/

For me (safe Labour seat) I'm free to vote however I like (my vote will make no difference to the outcome). So it's Green for me.

Can't disagree with that as a summary. I get some rugby news from the Telegraph (using a thing to allow me to bypass the paywall - I'm not funding the abominable shitrag that that paper's become) and occasionally I get clickbaited into reading an article from the news section. Usually all I gain from it is chagrin because the article's even worse than the headline would lead you to believe, but I was tickled pink today to see one in favour of PR and pointing out how awful and undemocratic it was that Reform and Tories were going to get a combined total of votes similar to Labour (according to their polls), but be in danger of getting less seats combined than the Lib Dems. It walked a beautifully hilarious line of "It was fine for us to tell the Lib Dems to fuck off when we were benefitting, but now things have changed and FPtP is no longer fit for purpose".

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... first-pas/

Amusingly, my constituency has gone from a safe Conservative seat to a safe Labour seat in the space of one election, so my vote will, once again, matter not even a little bit. Green for me as well.

Puja

I read the first paragraph before it disappeared behind the paywall. You have to laugh. But it would more than than one election's-worth of vigorous petard-hoisting for the Tories to turn to PR. Nice to see such naked hypocrisy from the Telegraph, though. Again.

[Sandydragon]

I've read (or skimmed) the main manifestos, just for completeness.

Tories - if you want more of the same, plus national service, this is it.
Labour - not really very left-wing. Not really that different to the Tories, except they make nicer noises on climate change and immigration. But in the end they only plan to spend about 10BN more than the Tories (mostly funded from minor changes to tax), which is less than 1% of government spending (approx £1.2TN). So it can't possibly make much difference.
LibDems - very similar to Labour, perhaps more left-wing if anything. They barely mention the EU (although more than Labour). No fiscal plan given but like Labour, unlikely to really change much.
Green - the real left-wing party. They actually have plans to spend significantly more on health, Education, Green economy, and tax the wealthy more. They'd also limit media ownership.
Reform UK - I agree with them about PR. Not much else.

Under PR I'd vote Green. In this bullshit system the best we can hope for is to get the Tories out. Actually that's not completely true. Best case, there's a small but realistic chance of pushing the Tories down to third place behind the LibDems. That would be spectacular, and good for the country. And fucking hilarious. So if the LibDems have a decent chance in a seat I'd say vote for them. Labour are so far ahead that they can afford to lose 20 seats to the Libdems for this noble goal.

So vote tactically :
https://www.getvoting.org/tactical-voting/

For me (safe Labour seat) I'm free to vote however I like (my vote will make no difference to the outcome). So it's Green for me.

The greens refuse to increase defence spending, despite the worsening global situation. Student union politics.

[Which Tyler]

I've read (or skimmed) the main manifestos, just for completeness.

Tories - if you want more of the same, plus national service, this is it.
Labour - not really very left-wing. Not really that different to the Tories, except they make nicer noises on climate change and immigration. But in the end they only plan to spend about 10BN more than the Tories (mostly funded from minor changes to tax), which is less than 1% of government spending (approx £1.2TN). So it can't possibly make much difference.
LibDems - very similar to Labour, perhaps more left-wing if anything. They barely mention the EU (although more than Labour). No fiscal plan given but like Labour, unlikely to really change much.
Green - the real left-wing party. They actually have plans to spend significantly more on health, Education, Green economy, and tax the wealthy more. They'd also limit media ownership.
Reform UK - I agree with them about PR. Not much else.

Under PR I'd vote Green. In this bullshit system the best we can hope for is to get the Tories out. Actually that's not completely true. Best case, there's a small but realistic chance of pushing the Tories down to third place behind the LibDems. That would be spectacular, and good for the country. And fucking hilarious. So if the LibDems have a decent chance in a seat I'd say vote for them. Labour are so far ahead that they can afford to lose 20 seats to the Libdems for this noble goal.

So vote tactically :
https://www.getvoting.org/tactical-voting/

For me (safe Labour seat) I'm free to vote however I like (my vote will make no difference to the outcome). So it's Green for me.

Under PR, I'd vote Green
As it is, LibDems have a realistic chance of ousting our particularly useless (and particularly safe) Tory MP, so my vote got posted this morning on the way into work.
Today's poll by Britain Elects put LD ahead of Con for the first time, but the polls have been moving that way over the last 2 weeks, as LD are actively targetting this seat, and are the only party doing so.


Note for postal voters - when I got the confirmation form that I was registered for a postal vote, it said that I couldn't vote in person if I wished - which is the first time that's been in there.

[Puja]

I've read (or skimmed) the main manifestos, just for completeness.

Tories - if you want more of the same, plus national service, this is it.
Labour - not really very left-wing. Not really that different to the Tories, except they make nicer noises on climate change and immigration. But in the end they only plan to spend about 10BN more than the Tories (mostly funded from minor changes to tax), which is less than 1% of government spending (approx £1.2TN). So it can't possibly make much difference.
LibDems - very similar to Labour, perhaps more left-wing if anything. They barely mention the EU (although more than Labour). No fiscal plan given but like Labour, unlikely to really change much.
Green - the real left-wing party. They actually have plans to spend significantly more on health, Education, Green economy, and tax the wealthy more. They'd also limit media ownership.
Reform UK - I agree with them about PR. Not much else.

Under PR I'd vote Green. In this bullshit system the best we can hope for is to get the Tories out. Actually that's not completely true. Best case, there's a small but realistic chance of pushing the Tories down to third place behind the LibDems. That would be spectacular, and good for the country. And fucking hilarious. So if the LibDems have a decent chance in a seat I'd say vote for them. Labour are so far ahead that they can afford to lose 20 seats to the Libdems for this noble goal.

So vote tactically :
https://www.getvoting.org/tactical-voting/

For me (safe Labour seat) I'm free to vote however I like (my vote will make no difference to the outcome). So it's Green for me.

The greens refuse to increase defence spending, despite the worsening global situation. Student union politics.

On the flip side, the Tories and Labour refuse to meaningfully increase spending on the climate crisis, despite the worsening global situation. There's a limited amount of money to go around and every party is making a decision on which of the impending disasters they think is least likely to need funding.

Puja

[morepork]

Exactly what I was thinking. If only we'd listened to those crazy kids (and oil company geologists and organic chemists) back in the '70s we'd be sitting prettier now. But hey, fuck it, put it off for another few decades.

[Mellsblue]

I've read (or skimmed) the main manifestos, just for completeness.

Tories - if you want more of the same, plus national service, this is it.
Labour - not really very left-wing. Not really that different to the Tories, except they make nicer noises on climate change and immigration. But in the end they only plan to spend about 10BN more than the Tories (mostly funded from minor changes to tax), which is less than 1% of government spending (approx £1.2TN). So it can't possibly make much difference.
LibDems - very similar to Labour, perhaps more left-wing if anything. They barely mention the EU (although more than Labour). No fiscal plan given but like Labour, unlikely to really change much.
Green - the real left-wing party. They actually have plans to spend significantly more on health, Education, Green economy, and tax the wealthy more. They'd also limit media ownership.
Reform UK - I agree with them about PR. Not much else.

Under PR I'd vote Green. In this bullshit system the best we can hope for is to get the Tories out. Actually that's not completely true. Best case, there's a small but realistic chance of pushing the Tories down to third place behind the LibDems. That would be spectacular, and good for the country. And fucking hilarious. So if the LibDems have a decent chance in a seat I'd say vote for them. Labour are so far ahead that they can afford to lose 20 seats to the Libdems for this noble goal.

So vote tactically :
https://www.getvoting.org/tactical-voting/

For me (safe Labour seat) I'm free to vote however I like (my vote will make no difference to the outcome). So it's Green for me.

The greens refuse to increase defence spending, despite the worsening global situation. Student union politics.

On the flip side, the Tories and Labour refuse to meaningfully increase spending on the climate crisis, despite the worsening global situation. There's a limited amount of money to go around and every party is making a decision on which of the impending disasters they think is least likely to need funding.

Puja

Given the Greens’ sums and the fact they won’t have to enact their manifesto they can ‘fund’ what they like…

[Sandydragon]

I've read (or skimmed) the main manifestos, just for completeness.

Tories - if you want more of the same, plus national service, this is it.
Labour - not really very left-wing. Not really that different to the Tories, except they make nicer noises on climate change and immigration. But in the end they only plan to spend about 10BN more than the Tories (mostly funded from minor changes to tax), which is less than 1% of government spending (approx £1.2TN). So it can't possibly make much difference.
LibDems - very similar to Labour, perhaps more left-wing if anything. They barely mention the EU (although more than Labour). No fiscal plan given but like Labour, unlikely to really change much.
Green - the real left-wing party. They actually have plans to spend significantly more on health, Education, Green economy, and tax the wealthy more. They'd also limit media ownership.
Reform UK - I agree with them about PR. Not much else.

Under PR I'd vote Green. In this bullshit system the best we can hope for is to get the Tories out. Actually that's not completely true. Best case, there's a small but realistic chance of pushing the Tories down to third place behind the LibDems. That would be spectacular, and good for the country. And fucking hilarious. So if the LibDems have a decent chance in a seat I'd say vote for them. Labour are so far ahead that they can afford to lose 20 seats to the Libdems for this noble goal.

So vote tactically :
https://www.getvoting.org/tactical-voting/

For me (safe Labour seat) I'm free to vote however I like (my vote will make no difference to the outcome). So it's Green for me.

The greens refuse to increase defence spending, despite the worsening global situation. Student union politics.

On the flip side, the Tories and Labour refuse to meaningfully increase spending on the climate crisis, despite the worsening global situation. There's a limited amount of money to go around and every party is making a decision on which of the impending disasters they think is least likely to need funding.

Puja

I don’t see Putin giving a shit about environmentalism. Listening to a Green Party rep comparing the threat from Russia etc to knife crime, it’s clear that this isn’t a grown up political party.

[Puja]

The greens refuse to increase defence spending, despite the worsening global situation. Student union politics.

On the flip side, the Tories and Labour refuse to meaningfully increase spending on the climate crisis, despite the worsening global situation. There's a limited amount of money to go around and every party is making a decision on which of the impending disasters they think is least likely to need funding.

Puja

Given the Greens’ sums and the fact they won’t have to enact their manifesto they can ‘fund’ what they like…

Fair point, although they do at least pretend to reality. They are the only party properly acknowledging that "wishing really hard for growth" isn't an economic strategy and that somebody is going to have to pay for things through taxes.

Puja

[Puja]

The greens refuse to increase defence spending, despite the worsening global situation. Student union politics.

On the flip side, the Tories and Labour refuse to meaningfully increase spending on the climate crisis, despite the worsening global situation. There's a limited amount of money to go around and every party is making a decision on which of the impending disasters they think is least likely to need funding.

Puja

I don’t see Putin giving a shit about environmentalism. Listening to a Green Party rep comparing the threat from Russia etc to knife crime, it’s clear that this isn’t a grown up political party.

I don't see rising sea levels and increased devastating weather events giving a shit about Putin either. Well, except in that they'll exacerbate global insecurity by causing food insecurity and mass emigration from stricken areas.

Puja

[Son of Mathonwy]

I've read (or skimmed) the main manifestos, just for completeness.

Tories - if you want more of the same, plus national service, this is it.
Labour - not really very left-wing. Not really that different to the Tories, except they make nicer noises on climate change and immigration. But in the end they only plan to spend about 10BN more than the Tories (mostly funded from minor changes to tax), which is less than 1% of government spending (approx £1.2TN). So it can't possibly make much difference.
LibDems - very similar to Labour, perhaps more left-wing if anything. They barely mention the EU (although more than Labour). No fiscal plan given but like Labour, unlikely to really change much.
Green - the real left-wing party. They actually have plans to spend significantly more on health, Education, Green economy, and tax the wealthy more. They'd also limit media ownership.
Reform UK - I agree with them about PR. Not much else.

Under PR I'd vote Green. In this bullshit system the best we can hope for is to get the Tories out. Actually that's not completely true. Best case, there's a small but realistic chance of pushing the Tories down to third place behind the LibDems. That would be spectacular, and good for the country. And fucking hilarious. So if the LibDems have a decent chance in a seat I'd say vote for them. Labour are so far ahead that they can afford to lose 20 seats to the Libdems for this noble goal.

So vote tactically :
https://www.getvoting.org/tactical-voting/

For me (safe Labour seat) I'm free to vote however I like (my vote will make no difference to the outcome). So it's Green for me.

The greens refuse to increase defence spending, despite the worsening global situation. Student union politics.

On the flip side, the Tories and Labour refuse to meaningfully increase spending on the climate crisis, despite the worsening global situation. There's a limited amount of money to go around and every party is making a decision on which of the impending disasters they think is least likely to need funding.

Puja

Additionally, Labour seem to be planning to continue with the Tory economic plan, with minor tweaks, relying on magical thinking to conjure up growth. There's no reason to expect more growth following the same plan. But there's every reason to expect worsening inequality. This will likely lead to disappointment with the charmless Labour leadership and perhaps even with the 'left' of politics. Having given Labour a chance and got nothing from it that will leave the country even more willing to elect Farage, who might well be helming the Tory ship by that point.

[Sandydragon]

On the flip side, the Tories and Labour refuse to meaningfully increase spending on the climate crisis, despite the worsening global situation. There's a limited amount of money to go around and every party is making a decision on which of the impending disasters they think is least likely to need funding.

Puja

I don’t see Putin giving a shit about environmentalism. Listening to a Green Party rep comparing the threat from Russia etc to knife crime, it’s clear that this isn’t a grown up political party.

I don't see rising sea levels and increased devastating weather events giving a shit about Putin either. Well, except in that they'll exacerbate global insecurity by causing food insecurity and mass emigration from stricken areas.

Puja

And if we couldn’t defend ourselves then any work on saving the planet would be a waste. Priorities.

[Sandydragon]

The greens refuse to increase defence spending, despite the worsening global situation. Student union politics.

On the flip side, the Tories and Labour refuse to meaningfully increase spending on the climate crisis, despite the worsening global situation. There's a limited amount of money to go around and every party is making a decision on which of the impending disasters they think is least likely to need funding.

Puja

Additionally, Labour seem to be planning to continue with the Tory economic plan, with minor tweaks, relying on magical thinking to conjure up growth. There's no reason to expect more growth following the same plan. But there's every reason to expect worsening inequality. This will likely lead to disappointment with the charmless Labour leadership and perhaps even with the 'left' of politics. Having given Labour a chance and got nothing from it that will leave the country even more willing to elect Farage, who might well be helming the Tory ship by that point.

Labour will put taxes up. I think we all know it will happen. Unless closer collaboration with Europe would help our economy grow (possible).

[morepork]

Then raise taxes. Priorities, right?

[Sandydragon]

Then raise taxes. Priorities, right?

Probably the answer. Partly.

[Son of Mathonwy]

On the flip side, the Tories and Labour refuse to meaningfully increase spending on the climate crisis, despite the worsening global situation. There's a limited amount of money to go around and every party is making a decision on which of the impending disasters they think is least likely to need funding.

Puja

Additionally, Labour seem to be planning to continue with the Tory economic plan, with minor tweaks, relying on magical thinking to conjure up growth. There's no reason to expect more growth following the same plan. But there's every reason to expect worsening inequality. This will likely lead to disappointment with the charmless Labour leadership and perhaps even with the 'left' of politics. Having given Labour a chance and got nothing from it that will leave the country even more willing to elect Farage, who might well be helming the Tory ship by that point.

Labour will put taxes up. I think we all know it will happen. Unless closer collaboration with Europe would help our economy grow (possible).

Maybe they're lying. Again. Who knows? But they'll have to invest in/spend a lot more on the country to turn things around. It's not like 1997. Unless they rip up the manifesto I don't see it making a difference in the time they've got.

[Sandydragon]

Then raise taxes. Priorities, right?

Probably the answer. Partly.

Green Party spokesperson seemed to think that only those who carry weapons get hurt. In other words we disarm and hope for the best.

Students union politics, stopped taking them seriously at that point.