RugbyRebels

Luke James looks like he's developing quite nicely.

Puja

Not sure where this post should be, but any thoughts on what to do with Lozowski?

I saw an article mention him as one of the Sarries players likely to be let go, possibly heading back to Wasps with Sapoanga off. That would suggest he might be playing 10 again but it seemed like guesswork anyway.

Is he a special talent? Is he just another player with the skills and physical ability but can't string it all together?

Seems like a real waste if he can't be moulded into a useful England player. He can hit hard, can run/kick/pass, has the pace to play wing (I think he played 1 game there for Sarries and scored a fantastic try) but has he ever convinced in defensive position in any spot from 10-15?

Curse of the talented all rounder. Good enough to do a decent job in a number of positions but not outstanding in any one. Always felt 10 was his best position and he should have stuck with it. A move back to Wasps, where he could concentrate on that position wouldnt be the worst option for him.
Right now, his England prospects dont look too bright.

Mikey Brown wrote:Not sure where this post should be, but any thoughts on what to do with Lozowski?

I saw an article mention him as one of the Sarries players likely to be let go, possibly heading back to Wasps with Sapoanga off. That would suggest he might be playing 10 again but it seemed like guesswork anyway.

Is he a special talent? Is he just another player with the skills and physical ability but can't string it all together?

Seems like a real waste if he can't be moulded into a useful England player. He can hit hard, can run/kick/pass, has the pace to play wing (I think he played 1 game there for Sarries and scored a fantastic try) but has he ever convinced in defensive position in any spot from 10-15?

Jack of all trades syndrome. Personally, I'd think 12 would suit him best, but that's blocked at Sarries by 3 players. I think he is an excellent talent, but never gets a run in one position, which was also true at Wasps.

Bristol could do with him at 12, offers more than either Hurrell or Siale. It would also get more out of Radradra with Loz there to distribute.

Mikey Brown wrote:Not sure where this post should be, but any thoughts on what to do with Lozowski?

I saw an article mention him as one of the Sarries players likely to be let go, possibly heading back to Wasps with Sapoanga off. That would suggest he might be playing 10 again but it seemed like guesswork anyway.

Is he a special talent? Is he just another player with the skills and physical ability but can't string it all together?

Seems like a real waste if he can't be moulded into a useful England player. He can hit hard, can run/kick/pass, has the pace to play wing (I think he played 1 game there for Sarries and scored a fantastic try) but has he ever convinced in defensive position in any spot from 10-15?

He looked absolutely mustard as a winger and his tackling is one of his very strongest points.

Agreed with all that he needs to pick one position and stick with it. If he wants regular England caps, you'd think he'd be best aiming for a club where he can be a 12 or a 15.

Puja

Never thought he managed the game well enough at 10, and looked worse at 15. He has some great strengths, solid tackle, great pace etc. Think 12 is potentially his best position.

Puja wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:Not sure where this post should be, but any thoughts on what to do with Lozowski?

I saw an article mention him as one of the Sarries players likely to be let go, possibly heading back to Wasps with Sapoanga off. That would suggest he might be playing 10 again but it seemed like guesswork anyway.

Is he a special talent? Is he just another player with the skills and physical ability but can't string it all together?

Seems like a real waste if he can't be moulded into a useful England player. He can hit hard, can run/kick/pass, has the pace to play wing (I think he played 1 game there for Sarries and scored a fantastic try) but has he ever convinced in defensive position in any spot from 10-15?

He looked absolutely mustard as a winger and his tackling is one of his very strongest points.

Agreed with all that he needs to pick one position and stick with it. If he wants regular England caps, you'd think he'd be best aiming for a club where he can be a 12 or a 15.

Puja

He's become a decent midfield defender as well as being able to tackle.

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:Not sure where this post should be, but any thoughts on what to do with Lozowski?

I saw an article mention him as one of the Sarries players likely to be let go, possibly heading back to Wasps with Sapoanga off. That would suggest he might be playing 10 again but it seemed like guesswork anyway.

Is he a special talent? Is he just another player with the skills and physical ability but can't string it all together?

Seems like a real waste if he can't be moulded into a useful England player. He can hit hard, can run/kick/pass, has the pace to play wing (I think he played 1 game there for Sarries and scored a fantastic try) but has he ever convinced in defensive position in any spot from 10-15?

He looked absolutely mustard as a winger and his tackling is one of his very strongest points.

Agreed with all that he needs to pick one position and stick with it. If he wants regular England caps, you'd think he'd be best aiming for a club where he can be a 12 or a 15.

Puja

He's become a decent midfield defender as well as being able to tackle.

That’s more what I was wondering about. He can obviously tackle well but wasn’t sure if he’d settled in to being in the correct position as a centre.

Mikey Brown wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:
He looked absolutely mustard as a winger and his tackling is one of his very strongest points.

Agreed with all that he needs to pick one position and stick with it. If he wants regular England caps, you'd think he'd be best aiming for a club where he can be a 12 or a 15.

Puja

He's become a decent midfield defender as well as being able to tackle.

That’s more what I was wondering about. He can obviously tackle well but wasn’t sure if he’d settled in to being in the correct position as a centre.

He struggled at 13 for a while, but seems to have sorted that out- defending outside Barritt will always help at least in a Sarries shirt. Not seen him at 12 tbh recently.

I'd happily have him at 12 for Bath - or even 10.
Hell, I'd consider him at 9 for Bath!

Malins has broken his foot and is out for 3 months. Real shame. Think he's got a very good shout at 15 for England

Lozowski is just one of many English players on the fringes of the national team that would make a very decent international if given a run of games at that level. Imo his best position is in the midfield at 12 or 13- which one would depend on how you set your backline up. It’s also a bit of a misnomer that he keeps getting moved around, he’s played vast majority of his rugby at 13 for the last 2 years.

He’s had some great runs of form in the last 2 seasons, notably in the latter stages of the CC last season-completely outplayed Ringrose in the final for eg- and the Prem run in the year before. Ultimately though, I think the players that have been picked by England have been just that bit better (in terms of overall quality and how England want to play) than him.

Timbo wrote:Lozowski is just one of many English players on the fringes of the national team that would make a very decent international if given a run of games at that level. Imo his best position is in the midfield at 12 or 13- which one would depend on how you set your backline up. It’s also a bit of a misnomer that he keeps getting moved around, he’s played vast majority of his rugby at 13 for the last 2 years.

He’s had some great runs of form in the last 2 seasons, notably in the latter stages of the CC last season-completely outplayed Ringrose in the final for eg- and the Prem run in the year before. Ultimately though, I think the players that have been picked by England have been just that bit better (in terms of overall quality and how England want to play) than him.

More that he isn't starting that many games in one position. I think his problem has been nailing down a starting spot at both clubs.

Edit- that could be a perception, rather than the reality- he's started 16/17 GP games in each of the full seasons he's played for Sarries. If the majority have been at 13 as a starter as per timbos statement, then he's had a decent run there.

Lozowski or Devoto? Behind Slade, JJ and Tuilagi, maybe one or other might be next cab off the rank but I'd rather look at the next group from the youngsters. I'd have all five ahead of Farrell as a centre though.

Yep. Think his skill set best suits 12. He’s settled on/been told he’s a 13 at Sarries but I’d say that’s only in the last 18 months. Despite being the easiest position to play on the pitch that’s not a long time to learn all the intricacies.

Mellsblue wrote:Yep. Think his skill set best suits 12. He’s settled on/been told he’s a 13 at Sarries but I’d say that’s only in the last 18 months. Despite being the easiest position to play on the pitch that’s not a long time to learn all the intricacies.

Yes, from memory he became first choice 13 pretty much straight after Sarries lost against Leinster in the CC qf in 2018. Other than a couple of games at 12 and a couple on the wing he’s been a 13 ever since.

Oakboy wrote:Lozowski or Devoto? Behind Slade, JJ and Tuilagi, maybe one or other might be next cab off the rank but I'd rather look at the next group from the youngsters. I'd have all five ahead of Farrell as a centre though.

Which young centres would you go for? Lawrence is one of the most gifted young English centres I’ve ever seen, but has to be at least 10-15 top level game short at the moment. Same with Redpath and Dingwall.

I really like Nick Tompkins, so wouldn’t mind seeing him given a chance. Marchant of course, but think he’s unavailable for now. Piers O’Connor? Obviously Jonny Williams and Harry Mallinder will need a fair amount of time to recover from illness and injury.

jimKRFC wrote:Bristol could do with him at 12, offers more than either Hurrell or Siale. It would also get more out of Radradra with Loz there to distribute.

As a former 10 he doesn't exactly remind one of Mike Catt moved away from 10, more a Lewsey. Maybe I've just seen the wrong games, but it's his distribution I'd like to see much more of

Digby wrote:

jimKRFC wrote:Bristol could do with him at 12, offers more than either Hurrell or Siale. It would also get more out of Radradra with Loz there to distribute.

As a former 10 he doesn't exactly remind one of Mike Catt moved away from 10, more a Lewsey. Maybe I've just seen the wrong games, but it's his distribution I'd like to see much more of

Bit harsh, I'd think he's got better distribution than Lewsey. But as he isn't getting much if any time at 12, its kind moot at present.

Timbo wrote:

Oakboy wrote:Lozowski or Devoto? Behind Slade, JJ and Tuilagi, maybe one or other might be next cab off the rank but I'd rather look at the next group from the youngsters. I'd have all five ahead of Farrell as a centre though.

Which young centres would you go for? Lawrence is one of the most gifted young English centres I’ve ever seen, but has to be at least 10-15 top level game short at the moment. Same with Redpath and Dingwall.

I really like Nick Tompkins, so wouldn’t mind seeing him given a chance. Marchant of course, but think he’s unavailable for now. Piers O’Connor? Obviously Jonny Williams and Harry Mallinder will need a fair amount of time to recover from illness and injury.

Mallinder will need to hugely improve his defence, and I'm not sure recovering from injury is the solution to that....that is even if he comes back as a 12- I'd doubt it tbh, esp at saints. I like Tompkins as well- and as you say, game time for the younger pretenders is an issue.

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:

jimKRFC wrote:Bristol could do with him at 12, offers more than either Hurrell or Siale. It would also get more out of Radradra with Loz there to distribute.

As a former 10 he doesn't exactly remind one of Mike Catt moved away from 10, more a Lewsey. Maybe I've just seen the wrong games, but it's his distribution I'd like to see much more of

Bit harsh, I'd think he's got better distribution than Lewsey. But as he isn't getting much if any time at 12, its kind moot at present.

His target as things stand is to be better than Farrell, and he's showing little to nothing at even trying to take on that hurdle

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:
As a former 10 he doesn't exactly remind one of Mike Catt moved away from 10, more a Lewsey. Maybe I've just seen the wrong games, but it's his distribution I'd like to see much more of

Bit harsh, I'd think he's got better distribution than Lewsey. But as he isn't getting much if any time at 12, its kind moot at present.

His target as things stand is to be better than Farrell, and he's showing little to nothing at even trying to take on that hurdle

Why do you say that? In the way Sarries play, he has no platform to show what he can or can't do as a distributor.

Timbo wrote:

Oakboy wrote:Lozowski or Devoto? Behind Slade, JJ and Tuilagi, maybe one or other might be next cab off the rank but I'd rather look at the next group from the youngsters. I'd have all five ahead of Farrell as a centre though.

Which young centres would you go for? Lawrence is one of the most gifted young English centres I’ve ever seen, but has to be at least 10-15 top level game short at the moment. Same with Redpath and Dingwall.

I really like Nick Tompkins, so wouldn’t mind seeing him given a chance. Marchant of course, but think he’s unavailable for now. Piers O’Connor? Obviously Jonny Williams and Harry Mallinder will need a fair amount of time to recover from illness and injury.

You've covered the options pretty well. At age-group international level, I thought Dingwall showed great all-round potential but GP 1st XV game time is the issue, as you say.

It's a case of club coaches having the skill and nerve to select some of the youngsters for a decent run. I thought Ibitoye was the best prospect of all, for example, and seems now to be proving the point despite Quins earlier reluctance to pick him.

I went to a Wasps match at Wycombe several years back and all the fans around me were enthusing about Lozowski's potential at FH. I think he got 5 minutes off the bench. Maybe, he would have been better advised to move to a club that might have started him at 10. His move to Saracens effectively destroyed his top-level chances.

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote: Bit harsh, I'd think he's got better distribution than Lewsey. But as he isn't getting much if any time at 12, its kind moot at present.

His target as things stand is to be better than Farrell, and he's showing little to nothing at even trying to take on that hurdle

Why do you say that? In the way Sarries play, he has no platform to show what he can or can't do as a distributor.

Partly the platform and style and partly he just doesn't, which is what I'd expect from a kid who runs so well but you'd also want more by now. Quite possible he does have a passing game, I'd just like to see it, it might even suit Sarries if there were other ways to get the ball to their 15 than opposition kicks