Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:43 pm
Why hypocritical?Zhivago wrote:Conservatives siding with the ulster loyalists then. How utterly hypocritical.
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Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:00 pm
I think you pulled the wrong adjective out of your big bag of random adjectives.Zhivago wrote:Conservatives siding with the ulster loyalists then. How utterly hypocritical.
Anyway, what are the options?
1. Conservatives try to go with a minority administration, with help from another right of centre, Unionist party. Albeit one with a few nuts loose.
2. Conservatives try to go with a minority administration on their own
3. Labour try to go with a minority administration with help from SNP and LD.
4. Labour try to go with a minority administration on their own
Any others?
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:12 pm
Perhaps not quite the right thread, but apt anyhow.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:19 pm
A) they were scaremongering about a coalition of chaosSandydragon wrote:Why hypocritical?Zhivago wrote:Conservatives siding with the ulster loyalists then. How utterly hypocritical.
B) they were crying about links with extremists
Well with this pact with DUP the same criticisms can be levelled
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:26 pm
Zhivago wrote:A) they were scaremongering about a coalition of chaosSandydragon wrote:Why hypocritical?Zhivago wrote:Conservatives siding with the ulster loyalists then. How utterly hypocritical.
B) they were crying about links with extremists
Well with this pact with DUP the same criticisms can be levelled
A 2 party coalition (and this won't be a coalition) is less chaotic than the Progressive Alliance proposed by the left.
As for extremists. 50 shades of grey in terms of support for terrorism. Some of the DUP members are closer to extremists than one would like, but Arlene Foster doesn't at least cosy up to them in the same way Corbyn has.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:31 pm
Anyway it won't last for long... 6 months max before it comes crashing down .Sandydragon wrote:Zhivago wrote:A) they were scaremongering about a coalition of chaosSandydragon wrote: Why hypocritical?
B) they were crying about links with extremists
Well with this pact with DUP the same criticisms can be levelled
A 2 party coalition (and this won't be a coalition) is less chaotic than the Progressive Alliance proposed by the left.
As for extremists. 50 shades of grey in terms of support for terrorism. Some of the DUP members are closer to extremists than one would like, but Arlene Foster doesn't at least cosy up to them in the same way Corbyn has.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:33 pm
No arguments there. Whoever forms the government, and May is the most likely to do so, it won't last 5 years in the current climate. Maybe a bit longer than 6 months, but once the pressure of Brexit comes on then the fault lines will appear.Zhivago wrote:Anyway it won't last for long... 6 months max before it comes crashing down .Sandydragon wrote:Zhivago wrote:
A) they were scaremongering about a coalition of chaos
B) they were crying about links with extremists
Well with this pact with DUP the same criticisms can be levelled
A 2 party coalition (and this won't be a coalition) is less chaotic than the Progressive Alliance proposed by the left.
As for extremists. 50 shades of grey in terms of support for terrorism. Some of the DUP members are closer to extremists than one would like, but Arlene Foster doesn't at least cosy up to them in the same way Corbyn has.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:55 pm
Hilarious fuckwittery from Team May.
Total media support, massive lead in the polls, pant wetting over Corbyn/McDonnell being 'terrorist sympathisers'
End up losing 20 odd seats and getting in to bed with Norn Iron's Taliban
Total media support, massive lead in the polls, pant wetting over Corbyn/McDonnell being 'terrorist sympathisers'
End up losing 20 odd seats and getting in to bed with Norn Iron's Taliban
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:00 pm
After thought, all this election has done is shown how far down the line of ineptitude our nation has gone.
Britain can truly shed the Great now.
Britain can truly shed the Great now.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:02 pm
I think we know what the next campaign slogan is going to be.Stom wrote:Britain can truly shed the Great now.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:13 pm
Britain is still a great nation of people, just because the politicians are a bunch of clowns there is no need to tar us all with the same brush, the sooner we get MPs with real backbone the better, how have we ended up with this quivering bunch of jellyfish running our country is what I want to know, and there are no real alternatives, at least we escaped the apocalypse of a Jeremy Corbyn led government.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:41 pm
Surely you have a video version of that manly non-PC sweeping statement? Something to rile the pale masses perhaps?
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:47 pm
how so, genuinely puzzled there...Zhivago wrote:Conservatives siding with the ulster loyalists then. How utterly hypocritical.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:56 pm
Make British Sheds Great Again?Mikey Brown wrote:I think we know what the next campaign slogan is going to be.Stom wrote:Britain can truly shed the Great now.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:01 pm
Anybody right of centre is an extremist, allegedly.Banquo wrote:how so, genuinely puzzled there...Zhivago wrote:Conservatives siding with the ulster loyalists then. How utterly hypocritical.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:02 pm
Glad to see you're keeping perspective.Stom wrote:After thought, all this election has done is shown how far down the line of ineptitude our nation has gone.
Britain can truly shed the Great now.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:10 pm
Philip May has a bit of the old Dennis Thatcher going on.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:14 pm
Yeah? Their longest serving MP was Enoch Powell's campaign manager. They have a history intertwined with Loyalist terror... They want to criminalise abortion even for rape victims...Mellsblue wrote:Anybody right of centre is an extremist, allegedly.Banquo wrote:how so, genuinely puzzled there...Zhivago wrote:Conservatives siding with the ulster loyalists then. How utterly hypocritical.
You think that's not extremism?
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:51 pm
Good job the Labour leadership have no link with terrorists otherwise you'd have to accuse Labour of being extremists. Good job Labour haven't recently allowed Communists into the party otherwise you'd have to call Labour extremists.Zhivago wrote:Yeah? Their longest serving MP was Enoch Powell's campaign manager. They have a history intertwined with Loyalist terror... They want to criminalise abortion even for rape victims...Mellsblue wrote:Anybody right of centre is an extremist, allegedly.Banquo wrote: how so, genuinely puzzled there...
You think that's not extremism?
As for the abortion issue, which is rank stupidity on the behalf of the DUP at best, you might as well call all fundamental religious groups extremists. The C of E for having a ceiling for female clergy, Sharia courts in which male rights are far superior to female rights. Now, I'll be happy for you to call of them extremists, and I'll be happy to agree with you, but you only seem to say it (on here) about people/parties/organisations to the right of centre.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:05 pm
Wasn't all that exactly what he was referring to when he initially called it hypocrisy?
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:06 pm
I think largely down to rules around state ownership, I can't think otherwise he'd want to unwind all the worker's rights and trust a Tory government to uphold similar in futureBanquo wrote: always his own position anyway
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:11 pm
It's also not like the IRA Political Party with with JC sympathises doesn't have issues with abortion, so straight out of the blocks the argument put forward for hypocrisy stumbles under the weight of hypocrisyMellsblue wrote:Good job the Labour leadership have no link with terrorists otherwise you'd have to accuse Labour of being extremists. Good job Labour haven't recently allowed Communists into the party otherwise you'd have to call Labour extremists.Zhivago wrote:Yeah? Their longest serving MP was Enoch Powell's campaign manager. They have a history intertwined with Loyalist terror... They want to criminalise abortion even for rape victims...Mellsblue wrote: Anybody right of centre is an extremist, allegedly.
You think that's not extremism?
As for the abortion issue, which is rank stupidity on the behalf of the DUP at best, you might as well call all fundamental religious groups extremists. The C of E for having a ceiling for female clergy, Sharia courts in which male rights are far superior to female rights. Now, I'll be happy for you to call of them extremists, and I'll be happy to agree with you, but you only seem to say it (on here) about people/parties/organisations to the right of centre.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:24 pm
Jonathan Powell said this about siding with the DUP, a stance I hadn't considered. I'd be interested in hearing thoughts on it, especially from someone who may know a bit more about this than me. Eugene?
I do think it’s a mistake to go into government with the “support of our friends” in the DUP. Even John Major avoided doing that and the reason he avoided that is the peace process is based on a balance that the British government has made it clear it is neutral in Northern Ireland, it doesn’t take sides. Once you have their support you are no longer neutral.
It matters for two big reasons. First, we haven’t managed to get the executive back up and running in Northern Ireland because of divisions between the two sides. The British government were trying to mediate between the two sides to get an administration up and running again and of course now it can’t possibly have that role of mediating.
And secondly I think it’s a mistake because one of the big issues in the Brexit negotiations is the border between north and south. Now the DUP is a minority in its view about Brexit, it’s in favour of Brexit. This is going to be a very real problem.
Whatever you put on a piece of paper, you’re living there with a minority government, that’s dependant on the DUP, you get to a crucial issue and then they say, ‘Remember what we want in terms of talks in Northern Ireland’, and the government has a choice: do they say, ‘We’re not giving you let, we’ll let the government collapse’, or do they just bend a little on that issue, it’s just one small issue it doesn’t matter. But beyond that the government can’t possibly be seen as neutral on Northern Ireland now if it puts itself at the mercy of the DUP.
Re: RE: Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:25 pm
Raises a good point. Now that article 50 is triggered can we stay in? If we don't like the deal offered and vote against it,is the only option no deal and leave or can we stay in?Sandydragon wrote:There were some interesting articles in the press yesterday concerning a softer brexit. Im not convinced that May, with a big majority, would not have gone for some kind of compromise. However, thats all speculation now. Will the EU be a bit more bullish now, knowing that she is hugely weakened? Can she get a vote through parliament? I don't think she can.
But what if she can't? My understanding is that if we don't agree a deal, we are still leaving anyway. A second referendum in the UK doesn't mean much if there is no offer on the table to offer the electorate if the PM can't get something through parliament.
What a complete mess.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:27 pm
A partnership with the DUP seems fraught with issues, but unless Labour want to confirm they wouldn't seek support from Plaid Cymru and the SNP in any minority government then it'd perhaps be better not to throw stones in glass houses