RugbyRebels

Galfon wrote:'Why stop at Donbas ?' he must feel.

Although on the other hand he is desperate for something he can portray as a victory. He could even paint the initial push toward Kiev as part of the master plan to weaken Ukrainian forces in the east. Much depends on how mentally sound he is at the moment given his likely health issues and effects of treatment.

Mellsblue wrote:Wtf is Macron playing at?!?! Saying that Ukraine must give up territory to avoid humiliating Putin, and that EU membership will take years (it will but there’s no need to so blatantly announce it). Has he spent so long ‘negotiating’ whether Putin that he’s developed Stockholm Syndrome!?!

He seems to firmly believe that resolution can be achieved through diplomacy. with concessions, (jaw-jaw not war-war, of course) but still has others to convince though:

Mr Macr: ' crucial President Vladimir Putin had a way out of what he called a "fundamental error"

Dmytro Kuleba ( Ukr foreign min.):
'allies should "better focus on how to put Russia in its place" as it "humiliates itself".
and that "calls to avoid humiliation of Russia can only humiliate France and every other country that would call for it"..

Bo-Jo:  'peace talks over Ukraine are likely to fail, as dealing with Putin was like "a crocodile when it's got your leg in its jaws" '
'..vital that the West continues arming Ukraine.'

Two good points in this article, https://www.ft.com/content/769ff234-ea5 ... 66693effe2:
a) The German govt are spineless
b) NATO needs a change of plan

Zhivago wrote:

Big country, Ukraine.

Mellsblue wrote:Two good points in this article, https://www.ft.com/content/769ff234-ea5 ... 66693effe2:
a) The German govt are spineless
b) NATO needs a change of plan

I don't subscribe to the FT so can't read, but I get the general idea from the headline. Germany has been pathetic regarding Russia for years, and that's before you consider Schroeder. Sadly the level of support for continuing the conflict in many western European countries isn't high.

Sandydragon wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Two good points in this article, https://www.ft.com/content/769ff234-ea5 ... 66693effe2:
a) The German govt are spineless
b) NATO needs a change of plan

I don't subscribe to the FT so can't read, but I get the general idea from the headline. Germany has been pathetic regarding Russia for years, and that's before you consider Schroeder. Sadly the level of support for continuing the conflict in many western European countries isn't high.

Neither do I but must’ve got my free one for the week/month as I’ve just gone back to cut and paste and it won’t let me.

Mellsblue wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Two good points in this article, https://www.ft.com/content/769ff234-ea5 ... 66693effe2:
a) The German govt are spineless
b) NATO needs a change of plan

I don't subscribe to the FT so can't read, but I get the general idea from the headline. Germany has been pathetic regarding Russia for years, and that's before you consider Schroeder. Sadly the level of support for continuing the conflict in many western European countries isn't high.

Neither do I but must’ve got my free one for the week/month as I’ve just gone back to cut and paste and it won’t let me.

12ft ladder is your friend: https://12ft.io/https://www.ft.com/cont ... 66693effe2

Puja

NSFW - WARNING DISTRESSING IMAGE

Just inhuman conditions in Mariupol. What a picture of Russian 'Civilization'.
https://preview.redd.it/cb64a53z7t591.j ... a756b7a514

Sandydragon wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Two good points in this article, https://www.ft.com/content/769ff234-ea5 ... 66693effe2:
a) The German govt are spineless
b) NATO needs a change of plan

I don't subscribe to the FT so can't read, but I get the general idea from the headline. Germany has been pathetic regarding Russia for years, and that's before you consider Schroeder. Sadly the level of support for continuing the conflict in many western European countries isn't high.

Funnily enough, the US has been the one leading the charge, but it's clear the Dems have been extremely sick of Putin's shit for years now.

I'm just glad the fucking tankies that used to be around here no longer are.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... llies-aid/

A sobering read based on the words (which are backed up by action) of a very impressive leader.

cashead wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Two good points in this article, https://www.ft.com/content/769ff234-ea5 ... 66693effe2:
a) The German govt are spineless
b) NATO needs a change of plan

I don't subscribe to the FT so can't read, but I get the general idea from the headline. Germany has been pathetic regarding Russia for years, and that's before you consider Schroeder. Sadly the level of support for continuing the conflict in many western European countries isn't high.

Funnily enough, the US has been the one leading the charge, but it's clear the Dems have been extremely sick of Putin's shit for years now.

I'm just glad the fucking tankies that used to be around here no longer are.

I wonder how different things would have been if this had happened during the Trump era? I do think that Russia was emboldened following the Afghanistan fiasco. Trump fans are alleging that Putin wouldn't have dared to invade when Trump was in charge; I think the wind down in Syrian commitments and Afghanistan withdraw have more to do with it from a geo-strategic perspective.

Blimey, the grandmaster isn’t mixing his words. Good job he was more subtle with his moves when playing chess. Tbf, he’s been telling the world this would happen for ages.

Top class wummery:

Sandydragon wrote:

cashead wrote:

Sandydragon wrote: I don't subscribe to the FT so can't read, but I get the general idea from the headline. Germany has been pathetic regarding Russia for years, and that's before you consider Schroeder. Sadly the level of support for continuing the conflict in many western European countries isn't high.

Funnily enough, the US has been the one leading the charge, but it's clear the Dems have been extremely sick of Putin's shit for years now.

I'm just glad the fucking tankies that used to be around here no longer are.

I wonder how different things would have been if this had happened during the Trump era? I do think that Russia was emboldened following the Afghanistan fiasco. Trump fans are alleging that Putin wouldn't have dared to invade when Trump was in charge; I think the wind down in Syrian commitments and Afghanistan withdraw have more to do with it from a geo-strategic perspective.

The Afghanistan fiasco would have happened just the same under Trump since Biden was just following Trump's plan. And while we can never be sure with these counterfactuals, I suspect that Trump would have been far less willing to give the Ukrainians any effective help - he'd have acted tough but done little to impede his pal Putin's aims.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

cashead wrote: Funnily enough, the US has been the one leading the charge, but it's clear the Dems have been extremely sick of Putin's shit for years now.

I'm just glad the fucking tankies that used to be around here no longer are.

I wonder how different things would have been if this had happened during the Trump era? I do think that Russia was emboldened following the Afghanistan fiasco. Trump fans are alleging that Putin wouldn't have dared to invade when Trump was in charge; I think the wind down in Syrian commitments and Afghanistan withdraw have more to do with it from a geo-strategic perspective.

The Afghanistan fiasco would have happened just the same under Trump since Biden was just following Trump's plan. And while we can never be sure with these counterfactuals, I suspect that Trump would have been far less willing to give the Ukrainians any effective help - he'd have acted tough but done little to impede his pal Putin's aims.

Totally agree, despite his protestations, the Afghanistan debacle was made on Trumps watch, although that doesn't absolve Biden from the shambolic way it was implemented.

I suspect Trump would have been more favourable to Putin also.

Sandydragon wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Sandydragon wrote: I wonder how different things would have been if this had happened during the Trump era? I do think that Russia was emboldened following the Afghanistan fiasco. Trump fans are alleging that Putin wouldn't have dared to invade when Trump was in charge; I think the wind down in Syrian commitments and Afghanistan withdraw have more to do with it from a geo-strategic perspective.

The Afghanistan fiasco would have happened just the same under Trump since Biden was just following Trump's plan. And while we can never be sure with these counterfactuals, I suspect that Trump would have been far less willing to give the Ukrainians any effective help - he'd have acted tough but done little to impede his pal Putin's aims.

Totally agree, despite his protestations, the Afghanistan debacle was made on Trumps watch, although that doesn't absolve Biden from the shambolic way it was implemented.

I suspect Trump would have been more favourable to Putin also.

Agreed, Biden has no excuse for following Trump's plan. The words 'Trump's plan' should really have given him a clue.

It's becoming a bit of a grinding war of attrition. The Russians are dipping into the Belarussian artillery stocks, and the Ukrainians are asking for more guns and ammo.

Slava Ukraini

Snake Island retreat. "gesture of goodwill" lol

Severodonetsk now Lysychansk under Russ. control
Slovyansk and Kramatorsk, two biggest cities in the Donetsk region still in Ukrainian hands but in the sights.
No sign of new long-range weaponry setting up noticable counter-offensive; is this a timing thing or just not enough gear yet ?

Fascinating French documentary came out last Thursday with beyond the scenes footage including calls between macron and Putin and between macron and zelensky just before and after the start of the war.

Galfon wrote:Severodonetsk now Lysychansk under Russ. control
Slovyansk and Kramatorsk, two biggest cities in the Donetsk region still in Ukrainian hands but in the sights.
No sign of new long-range weaponry setting up noticable counter-offensive; is this a timing thing or just not enough gear yet ?

Probably not had the opportunity to become effective on new equipment yet. Theres also a shit ton of Russian troops there so wearing them down a bit by making them attack (attacking sides normally take heavier casualties) and then countering when they are exhausted isnt such a bad idea. But the Ukrainians will want to address the artillery balance properly before launching any major attacks.