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Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2024 9:08 am
by Sandydragon
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 9:22 pm
Ah, the Tory leadership contest. Thoughts . . .
Who is this loathsome nobody who's oozed himself into the lead? (Yeah, it's Jenrick. But seriously he can't win this can he?)
Good to see the vile Patel out, even if she seems almost mild after Braverman.
Lovely so see the very small numbers in the vote. How many Tory MPs are there, again?
And the Tories are making a point of charging candidates to run. This is just gold. They are strapped for cash. The levels are a pitiful fraction of US sums. Look how cheaply a Tory leader can be bought!
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ar ... leadership
He has a surprisingly good chance to become leader of the opposition and take the Conservative Party into their next electoral defeat. Shades of IDS here.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2024 1:00 pm
by Puja
The Winter Fuel Payment thing is utterly baffling. Starmer has proven to be such a competent politician (and I say that without it necessarily being a compliment) and yet he's made a schoolboy error like this. It's the absolute epitome of a terrible policy - it's easily emotive to the general populace (removing the subsidy put in so that granny can afford not to freeze to death), it's hated by both left and right (cutting benefits instead of taxing energy companies vs robbing pensioners) and, worst of all, it won't actually accomplish much of anything (because any savings will be eaten up by the cost of the bureaucracy involved in means testing).
Forget the ethics of it - it's a woefully naive and ineffective policy. Makes him hated for practically no gain, either political or financial. I'm startled as to how someone so careful and ruthless in the cause of not giving the Mail or Telegraph a hint of an opening for over 4 years of Labour leadership has made such a basic error within months of getting power.
Puja
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2024 1:39 pm
by Mellsblue
Governing’s hard. Who’d have thunk it. I think he’s got off lightly, tbh, on both this and other stuff. My favourite stat is that it will cost them (well, us) money if people continue to take up pension credit at the current rate.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2024 1:02 pm
by Banquo
Genuinely surprised at Starmer's tin ear with respect to accepting gifts. That's one thing I'd have thought he would know was terrible optics, given optics has been at the heart of everything he's done.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2024 2:17 pm
by Mikey Brown
I wanted to give him a bit of leeway but basically feels like we've gone back to David Cameron.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2024 3:10 pm
by Son of Mathonwy
Most politicians just can't help themselves. Looks like, despite the sober image, Starmer is just the same, in fact is particularly bad for a Labour MP. He really should know a few thousand quid here and there just isn't worth it in the long run.
Related, and even more concerning:
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/labour ... -and-arms/
I guess we can see the areas he won't be making sweeping changes to.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 8:36 am
by Sandydragon
It’s very politically tin eared to continue to take the freebies. I get he likes to watch football and there is a security issue about being in the stand, but accepting significant levels of gifts just doesn’t look right when the rest of the country is being told to stand by for a proper shafting.
Maybe the size of his majority makes him think that he’s above politics. That’s a bad idea to take on.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 8:57 am
by Which Tyler
Agreed with all of the above - it pales into insignificance compared to previous PMs - so far; but it sets a bad precedence, and he was supposed to be different, and setting a better example.
In and of themselves, then as far as I can tell, all the donations and gifts have been within the rules, and declared properly - but the optics are bad for him. He's not a liked politician, he got elected because what he isn't rather than what he is - he doesn't have that much goodwill to squander with things like this and the winter fuel payments.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 10:44 am
by Son of Mathonwy
Which Tyler wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 8:57 am
Agreed with all of the above - it pales into insignificance compared to previous PMs - so far; but it sets a bad precedence, and he was supposed to be different, and setting a better example.
In and of themselves, then as far as I can tell, all the donations and gifts have been within the rules, and declared properly - but the optics are bad for him. He's not a liked politician, he got elected because what he isn't rather than what he is - he doesn't have that much goodwill to squander with things like this and the winter fuel payments.
I expect its mostly within the rules, or near enough, but the rules, or lack of them, are the problem. Will he be tightening them up, as we had a right to expect from an incoming leader who railed against Tory sleaze? I think not. It would be so nice to think he understood the harm that the current system which allows big donations does to our democracy. But no, he's there on the back of that system, in the pay of richer men.
He's safe for five years (probably . . . although I'm sure Johnson thought he was too) but after that its in the hands of the right -
if they can unsplit their vote.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 5:41 pm
by Banquo
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 6:58 pm
by Son of Mathonwy
That's like the partial ban on arms exports to Israel - what's the minimum we can do to create the impression that we've stopped the bad thing but still allows us to do most of the bad thing?
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 9:29 pm
by Banquo
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 6:58 pm
That's like the partial ban on arms exports to Israel - what's the minimum we can do to create the impression that we've stopped the bad thing but still allows us to do most of the bad thing?
perzackly, just odd
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2024 2:16 pm
by Mikey Brown
Thank you, conference!
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2024 3:05 pm
by Mikey Brown
My god he's such a smug prick. Stick your flute up your arse.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2024 4:18 pm
by Banquo
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2024 4:19 pm
by Banquo
Return of the sausages. FFS
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 4:16 pm
by Which Tyler
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 6:09 pm
by Puja
It appears that the Cleverly supporters were so confident of his place in the final that they switched to Jenrick to try and pick the opponent, and ended up fucking up entirely.
It's going to be Badenoch, by a distance, which is both terrifying to think of her being that close to power, and nauseating to think of the prospect of having to listen to her constant grousing and "simple solutions" for the next 4.5 years. At least Jenrick's a spineless sycophant willing to change anything about him for popularity - he doesn't *mean* most of the shit he says. She's a true believer, even if it is in absolute nonsense.
Puja
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 8:11 pm
by paddy no 11
Politics appears to be fucked?
Or was it always that way? It's not like I can list a lot of tory leaders I respect or like - but were they better at politicing than badenoch?
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 8:39 pm
by Mellsblue
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 6:09 pm
It appears that the Cleverly supporters were so confident of his place in the final that they switched to Jenrick to try and pick the opponent, and ended up fucking up entirely.
It's going to be Badenoch, by a distance, which is both terrifying to think of her being that close to power, and nauseating to think of the prospect of having to listen to her constant grousing and "simple solutions" for the next 4.5 years. At least Jenrick's a spineless sycophant willing to change anything about him for popularity - he doesn't *mean* most of the shit he says. She's a true believer, even if it is in absolute nonsense.
Puja
The Tories’ Corbyn and Starmer.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 9:42 pm
by Puja
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 8:39 pm
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 6:09 pm
It appears that the Cleverly supporters were so confident of his place in the final that they switched to Jenrick to try and pick the opponent, and ended up fucking up entirely.
It's going to be Badenoch, by a distance, which is both terrifying to think of her being that close to power, and nauseating to think of the prospect of having to listen to her constant grousing and "simple solutions" for the next 4.5 years. At least Jenrick's a spineless sycophant willing to change anything about him for popularity - he doesn't *mean* most of the shit he says. She's a true believer, even if it is in absolute nonsense.
Puja
The Tories’ Corbyn and Starmer.
I mean, if Jenrick wins, then abandons all of the promises he made to the party electorate in order to be the most gray, unambitionless, dull politician ever to offer a military medium, then I will count that as an absolute win for the country as a whole.
Puja
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 10:18 pm
by Son of Mathonwy
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 6:09 pm
It appears that the Cleverly supporters were so confident of his place in the final that they switched to Jenrick to try and pick the opponent, and ended up fucking up entirely.
It's going to be Badenoch, by a distance, which is both terrifying to think of her being that close to power, and nauseating to think of the prospect of having to listen to her constant grousing and "simple solutions" for the next 4.5 years. At least Jenrick's a spineless sycophant willing to change anything about him for popularity - he doesn't *mean* most of the shit he says. She's a true believer, even if it is in absolute nonsense.
Puja
Depends on how racist and sexist the Tory members really are when faced with an actual vote.
Tough call. A truly dangerous, utterly pitiless, true believer or the UK's JD Vance. I think Jenrick is probably less dangerous for the country (but only slightly) because he doesn't actually believe in anything other than himself.
Can't believe how much Cleverly's supporters fucked that one up. Fucked up the Tories' last chance to take a vaguely moderate (well, relatively speaking) direction too.
Expect Starmer to hove further to the right in response to whoever of these characters wins.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 11:48 pm
by Mellsblue
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 9:42 pm
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 8:39 pm
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 6:09 pm
It appears that the Cleverly supporters were so confident of his place in the final that they switched to Jenrick to try and pick the opponent, and ended up fucking up entirely.
It's going to be Badenoch, by a distance, which is both terrifying to think of her being that close to power, and nauseating to think of the prospect of having to listen to her constant grousing and "simple solutions" for the next 4.5 years. At least Jenrick's a spineless sycophant willing to change anything about him for popularity - he doesn't *mean* most of the shit he says. She's a true believer, even if it is in absolute nonsense.
Puja
The Tories’ Corbyn and Starmer.
I mean, if Jenrick wins, then abandons all of the promises he made to the party electorate in order to be the most gray, unambitionless, dull politician ever to offer a military medium, then I will count that as an absolute win for the country as a whole.
Puja
As I say, the Tories’ Starmer.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 12:06 am
by Puja
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 10:18 pm
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 6:09 pm
It appears that the Cleverly supporters were so confident of his place in the final that they switched to Jenrick to try and pick the opponent, and ended up fucking up entirely.
It's going to be Badenoch, by a distance, which is both terrifying to think of her being that close to power, and nauseating to think of the prospect of having to listen to her constant grousing and "simple solutions" for the next 4.5 years. At least Jenrick's a spineless sycophant willing to change anything about him for popularity - he doesn't *mean* most of the shit he says. She's a true believer, even if it is in absolute nonsense.
Puja
Depends on how racist and sexist the Tory members really are when faced with an actual vote.
I don't see it being a problem for them. The Tories have never had a problem with a woman if she's willing to throw women under the bus and I don't see that not following if it's a black person willing to throw black people under the bus. They're quite happy to compartmentalise for a person saying the right things, because that person becomes "One of the good ones" who doesn't buy into that whole sexism/racism crap. It means they don't have to change, because Kemi agrees with them, and in fact they can go harder on racism and misogyny because they've already got proof that they aren't bigoted.
Puja
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 12:56 am
by Zhivago
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 6:09 pm
It appears that the Cleverly supporters were so confident of his place in the final that they switched to Jenrick to try and pick the opponent, and ended up fucking up entirely.
It's going to be Badenoch, by a distance, which is both terrifying to think of her being that close to power, and nauseating to think of the prospect of having to listen to her constant grousing and "simple solutions" for the next 4.5 years. At least Jenrick's a spineless sycophant willing to change anything about him for popularity - he doesn't *mean* most of the shit he says. She's a true believer, even if it is in absolute nonsense.
Puja
Hahaha
Beyond satire
