RugbyRebels

Edinburgh in Exile wrote:

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:Brilliant run from Sinckler. We've got to watch that pop off the scrum half shoulder.

Yeah, that was excellent. Fatties in full flight and open space is one of rugbys great sights.

But where was the dummy?

ITVs coverage really makes me appreciate the BBC. Not a hint of an Italian or objective viewpoint and some dreadful leading questions in the interviews. Think Flatman is excellent and underused but that's about it.

For some reason the fact that itoje is wearing 6 then packing down in the second row fucks me off. He's not playing 6 then is he!!

thst tactic is deadly if used right, if your totally short out wide don't ruck and use it to give your defense time to sort it out.

But refs will be told to get rid of the tactic, not a hide poite fan but some of his calls at the end were right out the cover my arse textbook.

whatisthejava wrote:thst tactic is deadly if used right, if your totally short out wide don't ruck and use it to give your defense time to sort it out.

But refs will be told to get rid of the tactic, not a hide poite fan but some of his calls at the end were right out the cover my arse textbook.

I'm not convinced that it's that deadly. An attacking team playing what's in front of them (rather than playing by numbers) should see big gaps around the ruck while opposition players are fannying around on the "wrong" side of the ball. A series of drives down the middle would kill it stone dead.

Stones of granite wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:thst tactic is deadly if used right, if your totally short out wide don't ruck and use it to give your defense time to sort it out.

But refs will be told to get rid of the tactic, not a hide poite fan but some of his calls at the end were right out the cover my arse textbook.

I'm not convinced that it's that deadly. An attacking team playing what's in front of them (rather than playing by numbers) should see big gaps around the ruck while opposition players are fannying around on the "wrong" side of the ball. A series of drives down the middle would kill it stone dead.

I don't expect them to use it again. Especially against the French who love to maul their way down.

Adder wrote:

Stones of granite wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:thst tactic is deadly if used right, if your totally short out wide don't ruck and use it to give your defense time to sort it out.

But refs will be told to get rid of the tactic, not a hide poite fan but some of his calls at the end were right out the cover my arse textbook.

I'm not convinced that it's that deadly. An attacking team playing what's in front of them (rather than playing by numbers) should see big gaps around the ruck while opposition players are fannying around on the "wrong" side of the ball. A series of drives down the middle would kill it stone dead.

I don't expect them to use it again. Especially against the French who love to maul their way down.

I sort of agree. I think they might use it again as a surprise tactic at key points in a game. I agree that they won't use it in the same way as they did against England.

Stones of granite wrote:

Adder wrote:

Stones of granite wrote: I'm not convinced that it's that deadly. An attacking team playing what's in front of them (rather than playing by numbers) should see big gaps around the ruck while opposition players are fannying around on the "wrong" side of the ball. A series of drives down the middle would kill it stone dead.

I don't expect them to use it again. Especially against the French who love to maul their way down.

I sort of agree. I think they might use it again as a surprise tactic at key points in a game. I agree that they won't use it in the same way as they did against England.

Agreed. However, every coach will now prepare their team for such a scenario.

Adder wrote:

Stones of granite wrote:

Adder wrote:
I don't expect them to use it again. Especially against the French who love to maul their way down.

I sort of agree. I think they might use it again as a surprise tactic at key points in a game. I agree that they won't use it in the same way as they did against England.

Agreed. However, every coach will now prepare their team for such a scenario.

Indeed.

In Guscott's bbc artivle there is a link to a very good article on the Chiefs using it. Seems like it has had mixed results but is best from kickoffs and trying to stop a team exiting

Cameo wrote:In Guscott's bbc artivle there is a link to a very good article on the Chiefs using it. Seems like it has had mixed results but is best from kickoffs and trying to stop a team exiting

Exiting would be tough. If the option was to risk a charge down or drive your way out of your 22 you've not got great options but might force teams to get it wider, faster.

After spending a while thinking more about it , i still think it could be a very powerful tactic to get the ball back , by mixing it with a choke tackle you could have a very good cheap way to steal ball , but i think the tactic leaves you exposed in a big way if their backs get it because you would need to play extremly narrow to benefit and the drawbacks is to much

So it seems that Italy's breakdown tactics yesterday really have got under the skin of a lot of England fans and team. Haha

They should be angrier at their teams in ability to be able to adapt to something that they weren't expecting rather than get angry that the Italians didn't just roll over.

So far I've seen "It's not in the spirit of the game", "ruined the game, anti rugby", "irb should change the laws"

sharvey44 wrote:So it seems that Italy's breakdown tactics yesterday really have got under the skin of a lot of England fans and team. Haha

They should be angrier at their teams in ability to be able to adapt to something that they weren't expecting rather than get angry that the Italians didn't just roll over.

So far I've seen "It's not in the spirit of the game", "ruined the game, anti rugby", "irb should change the laws"

Indeed, the reaction has been way over the top. If every game for the rest of the tournament becomes like yesterday's they would need to consider changing it. Changing it now would be knee jerk nonsense. It only half worked after all

In fact I think we should announce that we are going to do it next week just to get them whining

We should prepare for them doing it. Would be hypocritical but wouldn't surprise me.

Cameo wrote:In fact I think we should announce that we are going to do it next week just to get them whining

Or even better, announce that we will exploit a different loophole, so that England can waste resources by having someone slowly read out the laws to Haskell.

having thought of an intelligent way around a problem, Italy werent using it properly. Whenever the ref was waving his hands in the air, italy were all standing around blocking the pass. If the refs got his hands in the air, get in there and get possession.

Otherwise it was great to see someone doing something different. Rugby has become a bit boring and formulaic imo and anything that shakes that up is to be welcomed.

Its deeply ironic that England are greetin about someone somehow spoiling the game by acting within the laws, when for years the game has been ruined by teams specifically & explicitly studying how to get away with cheating, mostly at the ruck!

Donny osmond wrote:having thought of an intelligent way around a problem, Italy werent using it properly. Whenever the ref was waving his hands in the air, italy were all standing around blocking the pass. If the refs got his hands in the air, get in there and get possession.

Otherwise it was great to see someone doing something different. Rugby has become a bit boring and formulaic imo and anything that shakes that up is to be welcomed.

Its deeply ironic that England are greetin about someone somehow spoiling the game by acting within the laws, when for years the game has been ruined by teams specifically & explicitly studying how to get away with cheating, mostly at the ruck!

You can't go in and get the ball. If you compete for the ball at the tackle (even when it is not a ruck) you have to come in from your own side (the gate). Poite was telling them to stay 1m away

Cameo wrote:

Donny osmond wrote:having thought of an intelligent way around a problem, Italy werent using it properly. Whenever the ref was waving his hands in the air, italy were all standing around blocking the pass. If the refs got his hands in the air, get in there and get possession.

Otherwise it was great to see someone doing something different. Rugby has become a bit boring and formulaic imo and anything that shakes that up is to be welcomed.

Its deeply ironic that England are greetin about someone somehow spoiling the game by acting within the laws, when for years the game has been ruined by teams specifically & explicitly studying how to get away with cheating, mostly at the ruck!

You can't go in and get the ball. If you compete for the ball at the tackle (even when it is not a ruck) you have to come in from your own side (the gate). Poite was telling them to stay 1m away

That explains a lot, cheers

Donny osmond wrote:

Cameo wrote:

Donny osmond wrote:having thought of an intelligent way around a problem, Italy werent using it properly. Whenever the ref was waving his hands in the air, italy were all standing around blocking the pass. If the refs got his hands in the air, get in there and get possession.

Otherwise it was great to see someone doing something different. Rugby has become a bit boring and formulaic imo and anything that shakes that up is to be welcomed.

Its deeply ironic that England are greetin about someone somehow spoiling the game by acting within the laws, when for years the game has been ruined by teams specifically & explicitly studying how to get away with cheating, mostly at the ruck!

You can't go in and get the ball. If you compete for the ball at the tackle (even when it is not a ruck) you have to come in from your own side (the gate). Poite was telling them to stay 1m away

That explains a lot, cheers

Apparently Italy were going to do that until the ref's meeting where the law was clarified.

Donny osmond wrote:having thought of an intelligent way around a problem, Italy werent using it properly. Whenever the ref was waving his hands in the air, italy were all standing around blocking the pass. If the refs got his hands in the air, get in there and get possession.

Otherwise it was great to see someone doing something different. Rugby has become a bit boring and formulaic imo and anything that shakes that up is to be welcomed.

Its deeply ironic that England are greetin about someone somehow spoiling the game by acting within the laws, when for years the game has been ruined by teams specifically & explicitly studying how to get away with cheating, mostly at the ruck!

The ref asked them to play within the spirity of the law and stay a meter away from the scrum half and back of the tackle

Thats why they were pinged for charging down as Poite thought that was against what they had discussed

England will use this so we better be prepared, although im interested to know if you rucked (pushed) the the "offside blocker" into the tackle would they be pinged for entering the tackle the wrong way ?

Its there fault for being there

Should have read to the end of the thread.

The longer it goes on i think its a non starter unless its an occasional one off tactic to stop the ball going to the backs, perhaps your short outwide so you use the tackle to force a pick and to slow the ball down

whatisthejava wrote:Should have read to the end of the thread.

The longer it goes on i think its a non starter unless its an occasional one off tactic to stop the ball going to the backs, perhaps your short outwide so you use the tackle to force a pick and to slow the ball down

Yeah exactly, it can be used every now and then when desperate or to confuse. It can also be used for exits etc but again I dont think many people will use it in the way Italy did as it is only damage limitation in a way once teams know the rules

whatisthejava wrote:

Donny osmond wrote:having thought of an intelligent way around a problem, Italy werent using it properly. Whenever the ref was waving his hands in the air, italy were all standing around blocking the pass. If the refs got his hands in the air, get in there and get possession.

Otherwise it was great to see someone doing something different. Rugby has become a bit boring and formulaic imo and anything that shakes that up is to be welcomed.

Its deeply ironic that England are greetin about someone somehow spoiling the game by acting within the laws, when for years the game has been ruined by teams specifically & explicitly studying how to get away with cheating, mostly at the ruck!

The ref asked them to play within the spirity of the law and stay a meter away from the scrum half and back of the tackle

Thats why they were pinged for charging down as Poite thought that was against what they had discussed

England will use this so we better be prepared, although im interested to know if you rucked (pushed) the the "offside blocker" into the tackle would they be pinged for entering the tackle the wrong way ?

Its there fault for being there

Devon Toner hooked in Haskell from the wrong side of a ruck a few games back, it was excellently done and the ref did indeed ping Haskell as it looked like Haskell diving in to kill the play. It'd need to be done quickly, but it's another option England weren't up to taking advantage of

Edit - if this were to work vs anyone this 6N series I actually think it'd be Wales, they're spending a lot of time looking to interfere with play on the wrong side