RugbyRebels

Big D wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Big D wrote:SA are favourites in my book. They may not have played as a squad for a long time, they are a well drilled team with most of the parts there that won them the world cup.

That being said, there is no score line other than something daft allowing for draws that would surprise me over the series.

How many of the Lions units have ever played together?

Very few. I saw a table of stats on line and these combinations of players have very little game time together in their respective position groups on tour. Obviously some have played together before (the second rows, VdM and Hogg) but the key combos haven't had much time in games together.

Cameo wrote:

Puja wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:
It’s not the fact that SA beat sent in a RWC. They systematically destroyed that English teams game plan AFTER they almost nilled the AB.

Rassie is smarter and knows that if he gets in the English faces then the English boys will revert to the last 12 months and give penalties away.

The entire Garland game plan is based on matching the saffas forward pack and against the A team the lions failed.

I’d quite like the lions to win but i don’t have blind faith

I really do think you're investing this South African side with mystical power that they don't actually have. Sometimes in rugby, all your plans go to shit, the opposition are up for it, some of your key men have terrible starts and get worse, you don't quite get the touch of luck, and you end up on the wrong end of a dicking when it's a game you should've been competitive in. England had it in 2013 against Wales and it didn't leave the England players scarred and scared of Wales - it left them pissed off and they won the next three encounters (we'll ignore the 4th one!).

That's not to say South Africa aren't a great side or worthy world champions or that they didn't put England comfortably away. But they're also the same side that lost to New Zealand and could very easily have lost to Wales. They're not supermen - they're just a very good side - and they're suffering from this being their second test in 2 years.

Also, that South Africa A game seems largely irrelevant considering that Lions side shares all of 4 starters with the first test XV.

Puja

This. The SA team is impressive but they are not unbelievable. As you say, they nearly blew what should have been a comfortable win Inthe semi against Wales and had lost to NZ earlier on.

They'll be ferocious early on but I don't think theyl be as good as the NZ team last time out (though equally the Lions won't have the luck they had then either).

Big D wrote:

Cameo wrote:

Puja wrote:
I really do think you're investing this South African side with mystical power that they don't actually have. Sometimes in rugby, all your plans go to shit, the opposition are up for it, some of your key men have terrible starts and get worse, you don't quite get the touch of luck, and you end up on the wrong end of a dicking when it's a game you should've been competitive in. England had it in 2013 against Wales and it didn't leave the England players scarred and scared of Wales - it left them pissed off and they won the next three encounters (we'll ignore the 4th one!).

That's not to say South Africa aren't a great side or worthy world champions or that they didn't put England comfortably away. But they're also the same side that lost to New Zealand and could very easily have lost to Wales. They're not supermen - they're just a very good side - and they're suffering from this being their second test in 2 years.

Also, that South Africa A game seems largely irrelevant considering that Lions side shares all of 4 starters with the first test XV.

Puja

This. The SA team is impressive but they are not unbelievable. As you say, they nearly blew what should have been a comfortable win Inthe semi against Wales and had lost to NZ earlier on.

They'll be ferocious early on but I don't think theyl be as good as the NZ team last time out (though equally the Lions won't have the luck they had then either).

Yeah I think the first 10-15 minutes will be vital.

I really do think the whole "this is their first real game since the world cup" is over blown though. They have a relatively simple game plan and the players are mostly well versed with each other. This could be anything from 3-0 to 0-3.

I think you make your own luck sometimes. SBW was an idiot and IIRC Warburton got in the ear of the ref for the last call for the knock on/offside. The Lions on the last SA tour were victim of one of the worst reffing decisions I have seen. How Burger didn't walk for a clear eye gouge is still mystifying.

Mellsblue wrote:They’ve a few players who have only just been allowed out of isolation after contracting Covid. If they find they’re not fully recovered and are blowing out of their arse after 15mins..... Notably, their capt and 10 are amongst that number.

Banquo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:They’ve a few players who have only just been allowed out of isolation after contracting Covid. If they find they’re not fully recovered and are blowing out of their arse after 15mins..... Notably, their capt and 10 are amongst that number.

tru dat.

My biggest problem is that we are on a golf trip to St Andrews this weekend and need to find a pub to watch it in; and we can't sit down together. #firstworldissue

Banquo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:They’ve a few players who have only just been allowed out of isolation after contracting Covid. If they find they’re not fully recovered and are blowing out of their arse after 15mins..... Notably, their capt and 10 are amongst that number.

tru dat.

My biggest problem is that we are on a golf trip to St Andrews this weekend and need to find a pub to watch it in; and we can't sit down together. #firstworldissue

Sandydragon wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:They’ve a few players who have only just been allowed out of isolation after contracting Covid. If they find they’re not fully recovered and are blowing out of their arse after 15mins..... Notably, their capt and 10 are amongst that number.

tru dat.

My biggest problem is that we are on a golf trip to St Andrews this weekend and need to find a pub to watch it in; and we can't sit down together. #firstworldissue

I'll be on a campsite in the Peak District relying on 4G connection. And its set to piss it down. I can think the Missus for arranging this one.

Banquo wrote:How many of the Lions units have ever played together?

Mellsblue wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Banquo wrote: tru dat.

My biggest problem is that we are on a golf trip to St Andrews this weekend and need to find a pub to watch it in; and we can't sit down together. #firstworldissue

I'll be on a campsite in the Peak District relying on 4G connection. And its set to piss it down. I can think the Missus for arranging this one.

This made me lol. Are you anywhere near Glossop or Matlock? I’ve played at both, many moons ago, and I’m sure they’ll accommodate. Ashbourne and Bakewell are also rugby towns. “Aargggh, Mrs SandyDragon, I’ve forgotten to pack the [insert vital piece of camping equipment you purposely left in the loft]. I’ll have to nip out and buy a new one. I’ll be back at some point after 7pm.”
I was once travelling from a long way oop north back home and realised I’d miss an England match.... so I worked out roughly where I’d be around kick off and found a local rugby club. One phone call later and I had a venue to watch the match. It added approx 45mins to the journey but it was worth it.

ad_tigger wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Sandydragon wrote: I'll be on a campsite in the Peak District relying on 4G connection. And its set to piss it down. I can think the Missus for arranging this one.

This made me lol. Are you anywhere near Glossop or Matlock? I’ve played at both, many moons ago, and I’m sure they’ll accommodate. Ashbourne and Bakewell are also rugby towns. “Aargggh, Mrs SandyDragon, I’ve forgotten to pack the [insert vital piece of camping equipment you purposely left in the loft]. I’ll have to nip out and buy a new one. I’ll be back at some point after 7pm.”
I was once travelling from a long way oop north back home and realised I’d miss an England match.... so I worked out roughly where I’d be around kick off and found a local rugby club. One phone call later and I had a venue to watch the match. It added approx 45mins to the journey but it was worth it.

Likewise if you're over Sheffield way, I think Sheffield Tigers are showing it, they're right on the peak district edge of town. You might have to book a table though...

Which Tyler wrote:

Banquo wrote:How many of the Lions units have ever played together?

Could have sworn that AWJ and Itoje played really well together in NZ


ETA: Of course, it's only talking about this tour - oops

Puja wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:

Banquo wrote:How many of the Lions units have ever played together?

Could have sworn that AWJ and Itoje played really well together in NZ


ETA: Of course, it's only talking about this tour - oops

Bizarre. You'd've thought the only benefit of playing and battering the weakened provinces would've been to get patterns established and build a bit of coherency, but that doesn't appear to've been high on the agenda at all.

Puja

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:

Which Tyler wrote: Could have sworn that AWJ and Itoje played really well together in NZ


ETA: Of course, it's only talking about this tour - oops

Bizarre. You'd've thought the only benefit of playing and battering the weakened provinces would've been to get patterns established and build a bit of coherency, but that doesn't appear to've been high on the agenda at all.

Puja

Its too short a lead in to give everyone a run and get combos sorted. Though you'd think they'd know roughly what side would start the 1st test- and no-one would have predicted this starting XV, as shown by the disbelief when I first mooted it. I'm rambling here

Puja wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:

Banquo wrote:How many of the Lions units have ever played together?

Could have sworn that AWJ and Itoje played really well together in NZ


ETA: Of course, it's only talking about this tour - oops

Bizarre. You'd've thought the only benefit of playing and battering the weakened provinces would've been to get patterns established and build a bit of coherency, but that doesn't appear to've been high on the agenda at all.

Puja

Mellsblue wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Banquo wrote: tru dat.

My biggest problem is that we are on a golf trip to St Andrews this weekend and need to find a pub to watch it in; and we can't sit down together. #firstworldissue

I'll be on a campsite in the Peak District relying on 4G connection. And its set to piss it down. I can think the Missus for arranging this one.

This made me lol. Are you anywhere near Glossop or Matlock? I’ve played at both, many moons ago, and I’m sure they’ll accommodate. Ashbourne and Bakewell are also rugby towns. “Aargggh, Mrs SandyDragon, I’ve forgotten to pack the [insert vital piece of camping equipment you purposely left in the loft]. I’ll have to nip out and buy a new one. I’ll be back at some point after 7pm.”
I was once travelling from a long way oop north back home and realised I’d miss an England match.... so I worked out roughly where I’d be around kick off and found a local rugby club. One phone call later and I had a venue to watch the match. It added approx 45mins to the journey but it was worth it.

Sandydragon wrote:

Puja wrote:

Which Tyler wrote: Could have sworn that AWJ and Itoje played really well together in NZ


ETA: Of course, it's only talking about this tour - oops

Bizarre. You'd've thought the only benefit of playing and battering the weakened provinces would've been to get patterns established and build a bit of coherency, but that doesn't appear to've been high on the agenda at all.

Puja

I can't get my head around it. Unless Gatland's idea of th test team pre -tour has been ripped up and thus some of the combinations he has tried out are no longer relevant, then its seems a waste. Surely at leat give Biggar and Price a start together, although Connor Murray seemed nailed on until the A game.

Digby wrote:Gats has learned his lessons on the back of Clive's notion of going with the test team in mind, and Gats has learned you've got to leave the selection door open. Both have positives and negatives

Digby wrote:Gats has learned his lessons on the back of Clive's notion of going with the test team in mind, and Gats has learned you've got to leave the selection door open. Both have positives and negatives

Sandydragon wrote:I can't get my head around it. Unless Gatland's idea of th test team pre -tour has been ripped up and thus some of the combinations he has tried out are no longer relevant, then its seems a waste.

Sandydragon wrote:

Digby wrote:Gats has learned his lessons on the back of Clive's notion of going with the test team in mind, and Gats has learned you've got to leave the selection door open. Both have positives and negatives

I think this is where the short tour format is a bit of a nightmare. On longer tours there would have been plenty of time for the players to gel in new combinations and play themselves into contention. With a handful of games, plus limited pre-tour training time, its natural that the coach has in his mind the test 23, but he has little time to try out new combinations outside of training.

I hope the weakness of the warm up opposition is due largely to covid and for the next tour, regional teams will be full strength. If thats not the case then those games become meaningless, and we might as well hold warm up events in the UK and fly out a small touring squad with the text 23 inked in.

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:Gats has learned his lessons on the back of Clive's notion of going with the test team in mind, and Gats has learned you've got to leave the selection door open. Both have positives and negatives

It is Gats fourth Lions tour, so I'd think he's probably got his own thoughts by now. But possibly yes- the question is how long for....and there is little chance to throw down a marker after the first test, so that's why they've all had a chance, at the expense of settling units, it appears.