Page 232 of 237
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 5:41 pm
by Banquo
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 6:58 pm
by Son of Mathonwy
That's like the partial ban on arms exports to Israel - what's the minimum we can do to create the impression that we've stopped the bad thing but still allows us to do most of the bad thing?
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2024 9:29 pm
by Banquo
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2024 6:58 pm
That's like the partial ban on arms exports to Israel - what's the minimum we can do to create the impression that we've stopped the bad thing but still allows us to do most of the bad thing?
perzackly, just odd
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2024 2:16 pm
by Mikey Brown
Thank you, conference!
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2024 3:05 pm
by Mikey Brown
My god he's such a smug prick. Stick your flute up your arse.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2024 4:18 pm
by Banquo
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2024 4:19 pm
by Banquo
Return of the sausages. FFS
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 4:16 pm
by Which Tyler
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 6:09 pm
by Puja
It appears that the Cleverly supporters were so confident of his place in the final that they switched to Jenrick to try and pick the opponent, and ended up fucking up entirely.
It's going to be Badenoch, by a distance, which is both terrifying to think of her being that close to power, and nauseating to think of the prospect of having to listen to her constant grousing and "simple solutions" for the next 4.5 years. At least Jenrick's a spineless sycophant willing to change anything about him for popularity - he doesn't *mean* most of the shit he says. She's a true believer, even if it is in absolute nonsense.
Puja
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 8:11 pm
by paddy no 11
Politics appears to be fucked?
Or was it always that way? It's not like I can list a lot of tory leaders I respect or like - but were they better at politicing than badenoch?
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 8:39 pm
by Mellsblue
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 6:09 pm
It appears that the Cleverly supporters were so confident of his place in the final that they switched to Jenrick to try and pick the opponent, and ended up fucking up entirely.
It's going to be Badenoch, by a distance, which is both terrifying to think of her being that close to power, and nauseating to think of the prospect of having to listen to her constant grousing and "simple solutions" for the next 4.5 years. At least Jenrick's a spineless sycophant willing to change anything about him for popularity - he doesn't *mean* most of the shit he says. She's a true believer, even if it is in absolute nonsense.
Puja
The Tories’ Corbyn and Starmer.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 9:42 pm
by Puja
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 8:39 pm
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 6:09 pm
It appears that the Cleverly supporters were so confident of his place in the final that they switched to Jenrick to try and pick the opponent, and ended up fucking up entirely.
It's going to be Badenoch, by a distance, which is both terrifying to think of her being that close to power, and nauseating to think of the prospect of having to listen to her constant grousing and "simple solutions" for the next 4.5 years. At least Jenrick's a spineless sycophant willing to change anything about him for popularity - he doesn't *mean* most of the shit he says. She's a true believer, even if it is in absolute nonsense.
Puja
The Tories’ Corbyn and Starmer.
I mean, if Jenrick wins, then abandons all of the promises he made to the party electorate in order to be the most gray, unambitionless, dull politician ever to offer a military medium, then I will count that as an absolute win for the country as a whole.
Puja
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 10:18 pm
by Son of Mathonwy
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 6:09 pm
It appears that the Cleverly supporters were so confident of his place in the final that they switched to Jenrick to try and pick the opponent, and ended up fucking up entirely.
It's going to be Badenoch, by a distance, which is both terrifying to think of her being that close to power, and nauseating to think of the prospect of having to listen to her constant grousing and "simple solutions" for the next 4.5 years. At least Jenrick's a spineless sycophant willing to change anything about him for popularity - he doesn't *mean* most of the shit he says. She's a true believer, even if it is in absolute nonsense.
Puja
Depends on how racist and sexist the Tory members really are when faced with an actual vote.
Tough call. A truly dangerous, utterly pitiless, true believer or the UK's JD Vance. I think Jenrick is probably less dangerous for the country (but only slightly) because he doesn't actually believe in anything other than himself.
Can't believe how much Cleverly's supporters fucked that one up. Fucked up the Tories' last chance to take a vaguely moderate (well, relatively speaking) direction too.
Expect Starmer to hove further to the right in response to whoever of these characters wins.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 11:48 pm
by Mellsblue
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 9:42 pm
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 8:39 pm
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 6:09 pm
It appears that the Cleverly supporters were so confident of his place in the final that they switched to Jenrick to try and pick the opponent, and ended up fucking up entirely.
It's going to be Badenoch, by a distance, which is both terrifying to think of her being that close to power, and nauseating to think of the prospect of having to listen to her constant grousing and "simple solutions" for the next 4.5 years. At least Jenrick's a spineless sycophant willing to change anything about him for popularity - he doesn't *mean* most of the shit he says. She's a true believer, even if it is in absolute nonsense.
Puja
The Tories’ Corbyn and Starmer.
I mean, if Jenrick wins, then abandons all of the promises he made to the party electorate in order to be the most gray, unambitionless, dull politician ever to offer a military medium, then I will count that as an absolute win for the country as a whole.
Puja
As I say, the Tories’ Starmer.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 12:06 am
by Puja
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 10:18 pm
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 6:09 pm
It appears that the Cleverly supporters were so confident of his place in the final that they switched to Jenrick to try and pick the opponent, and ended up fucking up entirely.
It's going to be Badenoch, by a distance, which is both terrifying to think of her being that close to power, and nauseating to think of the prospect of having to listen to her constant grousing and "simple solutions" for the next 4.5 years. At least Jenrick's a spineless sycophant willing to change anything about him for popularity - he doesn't *mean* most of the shit he says. She's a true believer, even if it is in absolute nonsense.
Puja
Depends on how racist and sexist the Tory members really are when faced with an actual vote.
I don't see it being a problem for them. The Tories have never had a problem with a woman if she's willing to throw women under the bus and I don't see that not following if it's a black person willing to throw black people under the bus. They're quite happy to compartmentalise for a person saying the right things, because that person becomes "One of the good ones" who doesn't buy into that whole sexism/racism crap. It means they don't have to change, because Kemi agrees with them, and in fact they can go harder on racism and misogyny because they've already got proof that they aren't bigoted.
Puja
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 12:56 am
by Zhivago
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 6:09 pm
It appears that the Cleverly supporters were so confident of his place in the final that they switched to Jenrick to try and pick the opponent, and ended up fucking up entirely.
It's going to be Badenoch, by a distance, which is both terrifying to think of her being that close to power, and nauseating to think of the prospect of having to listen to her constant grousing and "simple solutions" for the next 4.5 years. At least Jenrick's a spineless sycophant willing to change anything about him for popularity - he doesn't *mean* most of the shit he says. She's a true believer, even if it is in absolute nonsense.
Puja
Hahaha
Beyond satire
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:14 am
by Mellsblue
Puja wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 12:06 am
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 10:18 pm
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 6:09 pm
It appears that the Cleverly supporters were so confident of his place in the final that they switched to Jenrick to try and pick the opponent, and ended up fucking up entirely.
It's going to be Badenoch, by a distance, which is both terrifying to think of her being that close to power, and nauseating to think of the prospect of having to listen to her constant grousing and "simple solutions" for the next 4.5 years. At least Jenrick's a spineless sycophant willing to change anything about him for popularity - he doesn't *mean* most of the shit he says. She's a true believer, even if it is in absolute nonsense.
Puja
Depends on how racist and sexist the Tory members really are when faced with an actual vote.
I don't see it being a problem for them. The Tories have never had a problem with a woman if she's willing to throw women under the bus and I don't see that not following if it's a black person willing to throw black people under the bus. They're quite happy to compartmentalise for a person saying the right things, because that person becomes "One of the good ones" who doesn't buy into that whole sexism/racism crap. It means they don't have to change, because Kemi agrees with them, and in fact they can go harder on racism and misogyny because they've already got proof that they aren't bigoted.
Puja
There’s two ways to look at it. The above is true in which case everyone wins as Labour members get to call her an Uncle Tom and/or coconut. Or the above isn’t true and they just agree with her platform and the fact she has a reputation, deserved or otherwise, of competence. Given her polling amongst members has slipped during conference because of a couple of gaffes that threatened her reputation for competence, despite one of those gaffes showing how willing she is to ‘throw women under the bus’, leads me to it believe it’s the second option rather than the first; unless, of course, she’s become more black or more woman over conference allowing the members even more cover to become even more mean and nasty.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:15 am
by Son of Mathonwy
Zhivago wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 12:56 am
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 6:09 pm
It appears that the Cleverly supporters were so confident of his place in the final that they switched to Jenrick to try and pick the opponent, and ended up fucking up entirely.
It's going to be Badenoch, by a distance, which is both terrifying to think of her being that close to power, and nauseating to think of the prospect of having to listen to her constant grousing and "simple solutions" for the next 4.5 years. At least Jenrick's a spineless sycophant willing to change anything about him for popularity - he doesn't *mean* most of the shit he says. She's a true believer, even if it is in absolute nonsense.
Puja
Hahaha
Beyond satire
Masters of 4D chess.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:18 am
by Son of Mathonwy
Puja wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 12:06 am
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 10:18 pm
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 6:09 pm
It appears that the Cleverly supporters were so confident of his place in the final that they switched to Jenrick to try and pick the opponent, and ended up fucking up entirely.
It's going to be Badenoch, by a distance, which is both terrifying to think of her being that close to power, and nauseating to think of the prospect of having to listen to her constant grousing and "simple solutions" for the next 4.5 years. At least Jenrick's a spineless sycophant willing to change anything about him for popularity - he doesn't *mean* most of the shit he says. She's a true believer, even if it is in absolute nonsense.
Puja
Depends on how racist and sexist the Tory members really are when faced with an actual vote.
I don't see it being a problem for them. The Tories have never had a problem with a woman if she's willing to throw women under the bus and I don't see that not following if it's a black person willing to throw black people under the bus. They're quite happy to compartmentalise for a person saying the right things, because that person becomes "One of the good ones" who doesn't buy into that whole sexism/racism crap. It means they don't have to change, because Kemi agrees with them, and in fact they can go harder on racism and misogyny because they've already got proof that they aren't bigoted.
Puja
Yeah, I think a lot of them will be okay with her, but faced with an actual vote between a white man and a black woman it might shave off a few percent. (Not that we'll ever know.)
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:24 am
by Mellsblue
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:15 am
Zhivago wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 12:56 am
Puja wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 6:09 pm
It appears that the Cleverly supporters were so confident of his place in the final that they switched to Jenrick to try and pick the opponent, and ended up fucking up entirely.
It's going to be Badenoch, by a distance, which is both terrifying to think of her being that close to power, and nauseating to think of the prospect of having to listen to her constant grousing and "simple solutions" for the next 4.5 years. At least Jenrick's a spineless sycophant willing to change anything about him for popularity - he doesn't *mean* most of the shit he says. She's a true believer, even if it is in absolute nonsense.
Puja
Hahaha
Beyond satire
Masters of 4D chess.
I think you give them too much credit. They’re just sticking to the Labour 2015 leadership election playbook as closely as possible.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:49 am
by Mellsblue
Despite all my recent posts… this.
I rejoined the party in the hope I could vote for someone on the left but it’s now just a waste of money. Just got to hope that Jenrick is the Tory Starmer and moves towards the centre if he wins. Given he was considered pretty liberal (for a Tory, don’t worry he’s still a fascist) until resigning from his position in the Home Office it’s not a huge long shot.
As for the MPs so spectacularly farking it up, there are two schools of thought. The first is that Cleverly got too clever(ly) and shot himself in the foot. The other one is that Jenrick lent support to Cleverly at conference to give him some momentum but when they called those votes back the momentum wasn’t really there. Regardless of which it is, neither wanted to face Badenoch.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 9:59 am
by Puja
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:14 am
Puja wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 12:06 am
Son of Mathonwy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 09, 2024 10:18 pm
Depends on how racist and sexist the Tory members really are when faced with an actual vote.
I don't see it being a problem for them. The Tories have never had a problem with a woman if she's willing to throw women under the bus and I don't see that not following if it's a black person willing to throw black people under the bus. They're quite happy to compartmentalise for a person saying the right things, because that person becomes "One of the good ones" who doesn't buy into that whole sexism/racism crap. It means they don't have to change, because Kemi agrees with them, and in fact they can go harder on racism and misogyny because they've already got proof that they aren't bigoted.
Puja
There’s two ways to look at it. The above is true in which case everyone wins as Labour members get to call her an Uncle Tom and/or coconut. Or the above isn’t true and they just agree with her platform and the fact she has a reputation, deserved or otherwise, of competence. Given her polling amongst members has slipped during conference because of a couple of gaffes that threatened her reputation for competence, despite one of those gaffes showing how willing she is to ‘throw women under the bus’, leads me to it believe it’s the second option rather than the first; unless, of course, she’s become more black or more woman over conference allowing the members even more cover to become even more mean and nasty.
I think you've mistaken what I'm saying there. I'm not saying that the party electorate will select her *because* she's black/a woman, but that I don't think that racism and sexism amongst the Tory party electorate (as a generalisation across the population, rather than accusing everyone, specifically noting #NotAllTories) will be a significant impediment for them to select her. If she's saying the right things, then the nastier parts of the party will be fine to categorise her in the brains as "different", in the same way that Thatcher "wasn't like other women" to them.
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:49 am
Despite all my recent posts… this.
I rejoined the party in the hope I could vote for someone on the left but it’s now just a waste of money. Just got to hope that Jenrick is the Tory Starmer and moves towards the centre if he wins. Given he was considered pretty liberal (for a Tory, don’t worry he’s still a fascist) until resigning from his position in the Home Office it’s not a huge long shot.
Yeah, I reckon that's the best you can do - not envious of your choice there. Incredible situation when the best possible result to hope for would be to have two Keir Starmers.
Puja
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 10:35 am
by Mellsblue
Puja wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 9:59 am
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:14 am
Puja wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 12:06 am
I don't see it being a problem for them. The Tories have never had a problem with a woman if she's willing to throw women under the bus and I don't see that not following if it's a black person willing to throw black people under the bus. They're quite happy to compartmentalise for a person saying the right things, because that person becomes "One of the good ones" who doesn't buy into that whole sexism/racism crap. It means they don't have to change, because Kemi agrees with them, and in fact they can go harder on racism and misogyny because they've already got proof that they aren't bigoted.
Puja
There’s two ways to look at it. The above is true in which case everyone wins as Labour members get to call her an Uncle Tom and/or coconut. Or the above isn’t true and they just agree with her platform and the fact she has a reputation, deserved or otherwise, of competence. Given her polling amongst members has slipped during conference because of a couple of gaffes that threatened her reputation for competence, despite one of those gaffes showing how willing she is to ‘throw women under the bus’, leads me to it believe it’s the second option rather than the first; unless, of course, she’s become more black or more woman over conference allowing the members even more cover to become even more mean and nasty.
I think you've mistaken what I'm saying there. I'm not saying that the party electorate will select her *because* she's black/a woman, but that I don't think that racism and sexism amongst the Tory party electorate (as a generalisation across the population, rather than accusing everyone, specifically noting #NotAllTories) will be a significant impediment for them to select her. If she's saying the right things, then the nastier parts of the party will be fine to categorise her in the brains as "different", in the same way that Thatcher "wasn't like other women" to them.
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:49 am
Despite all my recent posts… this.
I rejoined the party in the hope I could vote for someone on the left but it’s now just a waste of money. Just got to hope that Jenrick is the Tory Starmer and moves towards the centre if he wins. Given he was considered pretty liberal (for a Tory, don’t worry he’s still a fascist) until resigning from his position in the Home Office it’s not a huge long shot.
Yeah, I reckon that's the best you can do - not envious of your choice there. Incredible situation when the best possible result to hope for would be to have two Keir Starmers.
Puja
I didn’t misunderstand. I was just flippantly retorting to the fact you think that Tory members are racist and misogynist unless the black woman tells them what they want to hear. Of course there’s some, and that number has grown since the referendum, just as there are some Labour members who think she’s a coconut and as a membership can’t seem to vote for anyone who is a woman and/or black to be leader, but I’d strongly guess, having been in the room at member meetings, the vast majority vote for her without having to hold their nose.
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 10:39 am
by Puja
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 10:35 am
Puja wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 9:59 am
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:14 am
There’s two ways to look at it. The above is true in which case everyone wins as Labour members get to call her an Uncle Tom and/or coconut. Or the above isn’t true and they just agree with her platform and the fact she has a reputation, deserved or otherwise, of competence. Given her polling amongst members has slipped during conference because of a couple of gaffes that threatened her reputation for competence, despite one of those gaffes showing how willing she is to ‘throw women under the bus’, leads me to it believe it’s the second option rather than the first; unless, of course, she’s become more black or more woman over conference allowing the members even more cover to become even more mean and nasty.
I think you've mistaken what I'm saying there. I'm not saying that the party electorate will select her *because* she's black/a woman, but that I don't think that racism and sexism amongst the Tory party electorate (as a generalisation across the population, rather than accusing everyone, specifically noting #NotAllTories) will be a significant impediment for them to select her. If she's saying the right things, then the nastier parts of the party will be fine to categorise her in the brains as "different", in the same way that Thatcher "wasn't like other women" to them.
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:49 am
Despite all my recent posts… this.
I rejoined the party in the hope I could vote for someone on the left but it’s now just a waste of money. Just got to hope that Jenrick is the Tory Starmer and moves towards the centre if he wins. Given he was considered pretty liberal (for a Tory, don’t worry he’s still a fascist) until resigning from his position in the Home Office it’s not a huge long shot.
Yeah, I reckon that's the best you can do - not envious of your choice there. Incredible situation when the best possible result to hope for would be to have two Keir Starmers.
Puja
I didn’t misunderstand. I was just flippantly retorting to the fact you think that Tory members are racist and misogynist unless the black woman tells them what they want to hear. Of course there’s some, and that number has grown since the referendum, just as there are some Labour members who think she’s a coconut and as a membership can’t seem to vote for anyone who is a woman and/or black to be leader, but I’d strongly guess, having been in the room at member meetings, the vast majority vote for her without having to hold their nose.
Okay, I still think you're misunderstanding, cause that's not what I'm saying or thinking, but I don't think there's any value in continuing to talk past each other, so let's leave it there.
Puja
Re: Snap General Election called
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 11:15 am
by Mellsblue
I suppose I will forever have to wonder what this sentence is really trying to say: ‘It means they don't have to change, because Kemi agrees with them, and in fact they can go harder on racism and misogyny because they've already got proof that they aren't bigoted’.
To me it sounds like Tory members are racist and misogynistic but not racist and misogynistic enough to not vote for a black woman whilst at the same time being emboldened to be more racist and misogynistic by voting for her.
