RugbyRebels

The Reffel who plays for Leicester is Welsh but i think the Reffel who plays for Saracens is English. Hard to believe that he is on the England radar considering the back row talent that is available.

It's the tiger's one.

twitchy wrote:There is a mail article claiming that reffell is getting an england call up. It seems complete bollocks though, the only quotes are him saying he wants to play for wales.

Considering Tommy Reffell captained Wales under 20s and has said he's a proud Welshman on several occasions it would be an odd decision. Then again having seen how Thomas Young has been treated at Wasps he might think switching his allegiance would be better for his career. He's the high work rate, lots of tackles and turnover specialist Jones likes in the backrow.

Not taking anything away from Reffell, but you could say exactly the same about Willis and Ben Curry and both of those have sustained that form over a much longer period. Not to mention the fact they’re actually English.

It's a nonsense article. I probably shouldn't even have brought it up. I didn't link it on purpose.

Scrumhead wrote:That would be such an Eddie thing to do ... call up Reffell and leave out Willis.

Not only is Reffell less deserving, he also wants to play for Wales, which is quite understandable given he is Welsh.

I often think that Eddie is idiosyncratic and misses some players out oddly, but then you look at who he HAS called up and looked at, and there aren't many if any he's missed that I can think of? Have you anyone specific in mind?

Eddie needs to be careful that in capping Reffel, he doesn't lose Willis to the Irish.

Sooooooo
Daily Mail saying Eddie is looking at bringing in Tommy Reffell and George Martin into the squad.

Honestly the most Eddie Jones sentence I have seen.

Tigersman wrote:Sooooooo
Daily Mail saying Eddie is looking at bringing in Tommy Reffell and George Martin into the squad.

Honestly the most Eddie Jones sentence I have seen.

Having Reffell and Martin in as apprentices isn't the worst idea in the world, as they are very much in the same mould as his previous picks of Umaga, Hill, Smith, etc. However, there is the very obvious caveat that Reffell is Welsh and so it seems a bit counterproductive to train him up when he's 95% likely to play for a rival. Martin would be an excellent shout though - he could learn a ridiculous amount and would provide an eager extra body for drills.

I'm a little bit concerned that Eddie is going to arbitrarily take against Jack Willis and never pick him because everyone's saying he *must* pick him and the big E-dog doesn't do what the media tells him to.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Tigersman wrote:Sooooooo
Daily Mail saying Eddie is looking at bringing in Tommy Reffell and George Martin into the squad.

Honestly the most Eddie Jones sentence I have seen.

Having Reffell and Martin in as apprentices isn't the worst idea in the world, as they are very much in the same mould as his previous picks of Umaga, Hill, Smith, etc. However, there is the very obvious caveat that Reffell is Welsh and so it seems a bit counterproductive to train him up when he's 95% likely to play for a rival. Martin would be an excellent shout though - he could learn a ridiculous amount and would provide an eager extra body for drills.

I'm a little bit concerned that Eddie is going to arbitrarily take against Jack Willis and never pick him because everyone's saying he *must* pick him and the big E-dog doesn't do what the media tells him to.

Puja

I’m worried about that too, but at least he can say he got there first with Willis after calling him up for the SA tour.

who will any of the younger uncapped players play instead of?

if no one then let them go have a career with Wales or Ireland

Digby wrote:who will any of the younger uncapped players play instead of?

if no one then let them go have a career with Wales or Ireland

That was my attitude with the likes of Haley, Addison, Burns, etc (albiet with lots of grumbling about Haley playing for England A) and to a lesser extent Francis, Holmes, Tompkins, and Williams. However, Willis has the ability to be a superstar in my opinion and he's definitely not someone I want playing against us.

Puja

Digby wrote:who will any of the younger uncapped players play instead of?

if no one then let them go have a career with Wales or Ireland

Ludlam. Wilson. Lawes at 6.

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:who will any of the younger uncapped players play instead of?

if no one then let them go have a career with Wales or Ireland

That was my attitude with the likes of Haley, Addison, Burns, etc (albiet with lots of grumbling about Haley playing for England A) and to a lesser extent Francis, Holmes, Tompkins, and Williams. However, Willis has the ability to be a superstar in my opinion and he's definitely not someone I want playing against us.

Puja

I like Willis, but if we're not going to pick him over Cunderhill (™Which) and the Homophobe I'd much rather he had a test career even if that involves playing against us.

For myself I'm still not a massive Underhill fan so that's who I'd probably drop to try Willis, but I'm 50/50 on just trying the other Curry instead

Raggs wrote:

Digby wrote:who will any of the younger uncapped players play instead of?

if no one then let them go have a career with Wales or Ireland

Ludlam. Wilson. Lawes at 6.

I'd agree on all those, but we might be picking Hill, or Curry there, and then they might not have a role available

Digby wrote:

Raggs wrote:

Digby wrote:who will any of the younger uncapped players play instead of?

if no one then let them go have a career with Wales or Ireland

Ludlam. Wilson. Lawes at 6.

I'd agree on all those, but we might be picking Hill, or Curry there, and then they might not have a role available

At least get Willis capped. Reffel too if we're serious and he's actually interested. Hill and Curry don't seem to have other options, and another seasons wait isn't going to ruin them.

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:who will any of the younger uncapped players play instead of?

if no one then let them go have a career with Wales or Ireland

That was my attitude with the likes of Haley, Addison, Burns, etc (albiet with lots of grumbling about Haley playing for England A) and to a lesser extent Francis, Holmes, Tompkins, and Williams. However, Willis has the ability to be a superstar in my opinion and he's definitely not someone I want playing against us.

Puja

Same. Even if Eddie doesn’t think Willis is ready right this second, why run the risk of losing him when he’s clearly an absolute beast.

Raggs wrote:

Digby wrote:

Raggs wrote:
Ludlam. Wilson. Lawes at 6.

I'd agree on all those, but we might be picking Hill, or Curry there, and then they might not have a role available

At least get Willis capped. Reffel too if we're serious and he's actually interested. Hill and Curry don't seem to have other options, and another seasons wait isn't going to ruin them.

Hill is already capped.

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:who will any of the younger uncapped players play instead of?

if no one then let them go have a career with Wales or Ireland

That was my attitude with the likes of Haley, Addison, Burns, etc (albiet with lots of grumbling about Haley playing for England A) and to a lesser extent Francis, Holmes, Tompkins, and Williams. However, Willis has the ability to be a superstar in my opinion and he's definitely not someone I want playing against us.

Puja

I like Willis, but if we're not going to pick him over Cunderhill (™Which) and the Homophobe I'd much rather he had a test career even if that involves playing against us.

For myself I'm still not a massive Underhill fan so that's who I'd probably drop to try Willis, but I'm 50/50 on just trying the other Curry instead

The homophobe?

Quite apart from the fact that I would pick Willis/TCurry for the opening international, I'd say that it's awfully previous to say we'll only need the top 3-4 flankers and anyone else is surplus to requirements, especially when one of our top 3-4 is Sam "I'm sure I won't use that head for anything else later" Underhill and his history of concussions. Injury and form mean that we could quite easily go down to our 6th-7th choice flankers and I would far far rather that we have a bank of excellent flankers who are fighting each other to improve and get into the England team than I would we have an injury crisis and have to pick a lock there again.

I'm in favour of us not poaching Reffell though. He will be a great player, but he is definitely Welsh and we don't *need* him given our riches in that area. Capping him would feel like a d*ck move.

Puja

Raggs wrote:

Digby wrote:

Raggs wrote:
Ludlam. Wilson. Lawes at 6.

I'd agree on all those, but we might be picking Hill, or Curry there, and then they might not have a role available

At least get Willis capped. Reffel too if we're serious and he's actually interested. Hill and Curry don't seem to have other options, and another seasons wait isn't going to ruin them.

That always feels a bit negative to me, picking someone out of fear, whether a concern they might then play for another nation like Francis and Wales, or whether picking Worseley against Wales to tackle Roberts.

I sort of trust if they're good enough they'll play lots for England, even if it takes a while as with Back. And if they're not good enough or give up like Francis so be it.

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:
That was my attitude with the likes of Haley, Addison, Burns, etc (albiet with lots of grumbling about Haley playing for England A) and to a lesser extent Francis, Holmes, Tompkins, and Williams. However, Willis has the ability to be a superstar in my opinion and he's definitely not someone I want playing against us.

Puja

I like Willis, but if we're not going to pick him over Cunderhill (™Which) and the Homophobe I'd much rather he had a test career even if that involves playing against us.

For myself I'm still not a massive Underhill fan so that's who I'd probably drop to try Willis, but I'm 50/50 on just trying the other Curry instead

The homophobe?

Quite apart from the fact that I would pick Willis/TCurry for the opening international, I'd say that it's awfully previous to say we'll only need the top 3-4 flankers and anyone else is surplus to requirements, especially when one of our top 3-4 is Sam "I'm sure I won't use that head for anything else later" Underhill and his history of concussions. Injury and form mean that we could quite easily go down to our 6th-7th choice flankers and I would far far rather that we have a bank of excellent flankers who are fighting each other to improve and get into the England team than I would we have an injury crisis and have to pick a lock there again.

I'm in favour of us not poaching Reffell though. He will be a great player, but he is definitely Welsh and we don't *need* him given our riches in that area. Capping him would feel like a d*ck move.

Puja

If you want to pick Willis for the next game that's fine, providing it's because you think he's the best option. I'm only against picking him because otherwise he might play for Ireland.

And if he does leave and we lose Underhill we'd still have options like the other Curry, Dombrandt, Hill, Mercer...

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:

Digby wrote:
I like Willis, but if we're not going to pick him over Cunderhill (™Which) and the Homophobe I'd much rather he had a test career even if that involves playing against us.

For myself I'm still not a massive Underhill fan so that's who I'd probably drop to try Willis, but I'm 50/50 on just trying the other Curry instead

The homophobe?

Quite apart from the fact that I would pick Willis/TCurry for the opening international, I'd say that it's awfully previous to say we'll only need the top 3-4 flankers and anyone else is surplus to requirements, especially when one of our top 3-4 is Sam "I'm sure I won't use that head for anything else later" Underhill and his history of concussions. Injury and form mean that we could quite easily go down to our 6th-7th choice flankers and I would far far rather that we have a bank of excellent flankers who are fighting each other to improve and get into the England team than I would we have an injury crisis and have to pick a lock there again.

I'm in favour of us not poaching Reffell though. He will be a great player, but he is definitely Welsh and we don't *need* him given our riches in that area. Capping him would feel like a d*ck move.

Puja

If you want to pick Willis for the next game that's fine, providing it's because you think he's the best option. I'm only against picking him because otherwise he might play for Ireland.

And if he does leave and we lose Underhill we'd still have options like the other Curry, Dombrandt, Hill, Mercer...

I want him to be selected because he absolutely deserves to be involved.

Addison and Haley were always unlikely to get called up. I don’t think that’s the situation for Willis. Even if he’s not picked for this squad, there’s no question in my mind that he’s an international in waiting.

I really dislike this current situation where unless a player is capped almost immediately, other home nations are immediately circling. It’s just plain wrong.

Didn’t Nick Tompkins say that he had no idea he was Welsh qualified until they tapped him up? Surely a system that supports that can’t be right? I genuinely believe he’d have been called up by England had Wales not intervened, maybe not immediately, but I’m confident it would have happened.

I hope this Reffell business is BS as I’d like to think we’re above this murky bollocks.

What's the solution to players like Tompkins turning out for Wales, do we simply remove qualification based on parents and grandparents? That would have some consequences.

Digby wrote:What's the solution to players like Tompkins turning out for Wales, do we simply remove qualification based on parents and grandparents? That would have some consequences.

I thought there used to be a gentleman’s agreement. If there isn’t, then I guess the RFU could start playing hardball on cash. Say that they want a bigger share of 6n money unless the home nations start acting like gentlemen again.

Digby wrote:What's the solution to players like Tompkins turning out for Wales, do we simply remove qualification based on parents and grandparents? That would have some consequences.

I'd be in favour of removing the qualification on grandparents. I can understand a situation where someone might feel a realistic connection to the homeland of their grandparent (for example a passionate Welshman moved to England, raised a passionate Welsh son, who then went on to raise a passionate Welsh son), but that's got to be in the severe minority of people qualifying through a grandparent. Or, if we must, allow a grandparent to take 2-3 years off residency, so if a person does feel strongly about their grandparent's nation, they can go get a contract there.

Puja