Trump

[rowan]

1-0 to Russia as it stands.

Putin has played a masterstroke.

Perhaps, but I'm not sure he had much of a choice, taking into account that Russia has a vital base in the port of Tartus. In that respect it was quite similar to Sevastopol. If you back the guy into a corner, of course he's going to make a move, and America should've known it wasn't going to have things all its own way in Syria, the way it did in Iraq and Libya.

[WaspInWales]

1-0 to Russia as it stands.

Putin has played a masterstroke.

Perhaps, but I'm not sure he had much of a choice, taking into account that Russia has a vital base in the port of Tartus. In that respect it was quite similar to Sevastopol. If you back the guy into a corner, of course he's going to make a move, and America should've known it wasn't going to have things all its own way in Syria, the way it did in Iraq and Libya.

I was referring to Putin not playing tit for tat diplomacy in response to the US expelling a number of Russian diplomats. The expected move was for Russia to respond in kind.

Putin invited US diplomats and their families to the Kremlin to see in the new year.

As if that wasn't enough, he went a step further by wishing Obama a happy new year.

[Digby]

1-0 to Russia as it stands.

Putin has played a masterstroke.

Back in the real world getting caught interfering in the election of another security council member doesn't constitute a masterstroke. It's maybe not a bad response to the diplomats getting kicked out, and of course the USA can't get too strident about people meddling in other nations, but still.

I did like the Russian line about the absurdity of the outgoing President making a mess for the incoming president, as in fairness Putin probably does think it absurd one might change a president.

[rowan]

1-0 to Russia as it stands.

Putin has played a masterstroke.

Perhaps, but I'm not sure he had much of a choice, taking into account that Russia has a vital base in the port of Tartus. In that respect it was quite similar to Sevastopol. If you back the guy into a corner, of course he's going to make a move, and America should've known it wasn't going to have things all its own way in Syria, the way it did in Iraq and Libya.

I was referring to Putin not playing tit for tat diplomacy in response to the US expelling a number of Russian diplomats. The expected move was for Russia to respond in kind.

Putin invited US diplomats and their families to the Kremlin to see in the new year.

As if that wasn't enough, he went a step further by wishing Obama a happy new year.

My mistake. Thanks for the clarification and, yes, I agree with you on that.

According to Assange, Russia was not the source of the thousands of emails passed into Wikileaks hands,' but rather a disgruntled staff member within the Podesta office. I think Obama is just being an asshole right now because American designs on Syria were thwarted, and Putin has shown he is above that sort of nonsense.

[WaspInWales]

Perhaps, but I'm not sure he had much of a choice, taking into account that Russia has a vital base in the port of Tartus. In that respect it was quite similar to Sevastopol. If you back the guy into a corner, of course he's going to make a move, and America should've known it wasn't going to have things all its own way in Syria, the way it did in Iraq and Libya.

I was referring to Putin not playing tit for tat diplomacy in response to the US expelling a number of Russian diplomats. The expected move was for Russia to respond in kind.

Putin invited US diplomats and their families to the Kremlin to see in the new year.

As if that wasn't enough, he went a step further by wishing Obama a happy new year.

My mistake. Thanks for the clarification and, yes, I agree with you on that.

According to Assange, Russia was not the source of the thousands of emails passed into Wikileaks hands,' but rather a disgruntled staff member within the Podesta office. I think Obama is just being an asshole right now because American designs on Syria were thwarted, and Putin has shown he is above that sort of nonsense.

Interesting. I made a similar comment a couple of weeks back on here on the possibility of a pissed off member of staff being the source. I'm not sure if it has been discussed openly before, but I like to think I may have cracked the case.

[WaspInWales]

1-0 to Russia as it stands.

Putin has played a masterstroke.

Back in the real world getting caught interfering in the election of another security council member doesn't constitute a masterstroke. It's maybe not a bad response to the diplomats getting kicked out, and of course the USA can't get too strident about people meddling in other nations, but still.

I did like the Russian line about the absurdity of the outgoing President making a mess for the incoming president, as in fairness Putin probably does think it absurd one might change a president.

If the Ruskies did it, where's the proof?

It's one thing the US saying they have the proof, but it means naff all if they can't back it up.

Considering the seriousness of the allegations, surely the US would be better off providing the evidence and allowing Russia to dispute it?

Democracy is at stake here so I think the burden of proof lies with the US.

[rowan]

Not to mention the sheer hypocrisy of America being concerned another country has had an undue bearing on its election.

[cashead]

1-0 to Russia as it stands.

Putin has played a masterstroke.

Not really. They got caught doing it, they've got their boys in the US thrown out and told to never darken their door again, they've had that label slapped across their foreheads and their main boy in Washington is now in a bit of a bind.

But then again, I guess I don't really feel like praising a thin-skinned homophobe that hangs out with butch leather daddies who imprisons anyone that dares criticise him.

[rowan]

Sounds like you have some socially ingrained prejudices against the Russians, to be honest. They weren't caught. There is actually no evidence, and there are the comments from Wikileaks' Assange re disgruntled Podesta staff 'leaking' information. The US has, in the past, boasted about influencing the elections of other nations, however - including Russia's. So I'm with Wasps on this one. Kudos to Putin for not sinking to Obama's level.

[cashead]

Sounds like you have some socially ingrained prejudices against the Russians, to be honest. They weren't caught. There is actually no evidence, and there are the comments from Wikileaks' Assange re disgruntled Podesta staff 'leaking' information. The US has, in the past, boasted about influencing the elections of other nations, however - including Russia's. So I'm with Wasps on this one. Kudos to Putin for not sinking to Obama's level.

Criticising Putin is indicative of a prejudice against Russians now, is it?

Also, https://www.us-cert.gov/sites/default/f ... 6-1229.pdf

[rowan]

They got caught doing it

How many Putins are there? You were clearly referring to the state of Russia. Personally, as a neutral, I regard both America and Britain as being far worse, and I also regard Obama and Cameron (though the latter is now gone) as being worse war criminals than Putin. So you need to understand how I view this all, as a neutral.

Regardless, the Post continues to treat anonymous statements from the agency as fact, leading the way as countless other mainstream outlets parrot their narrative. Though it’s possible Russia did attempt to intervene in the U.S. election, there is little reason to trust information from an outlet with a history of collaborating with the agency spreading these claims.
http://www.mintpressnews.com/cia-washin ... ld/223319/

[cashead]

Hahahaha, holy shit. That's the basis of your ad hominem attack?

[rowan]

What, your apparent reference to Putin as they, or your unsubstantiated claim they were caught doing it Neither of which is an ad hominem attack, btw, while the comment about your socially ingrained prejudices against Russia was only an observation.

[cashead]

Change your username to Yoga, because holy shit, that's a stretch.

[WaspInWales]

1-0 to Russia as it stands.

Putin has played a masterstroke.

Not really. They got caught doing it, they've got their boys in the US thrown out and told to never darken their door again, they've had that label slapped across their foreheads and their main boy in Washington is now in a bit of a bind.

But then again, I guess I don't really feel like praising a thin-skinned homophobe that hangs out with butch leather daddies who imprisons anyone that dares criticise him.

Again, America saying Russia did it doesn't really convince me they did.

As for praising, it's only in relation to Russia's response to the diplomatic punishment from the US. I agree with your comments on Putin otherwise.

[rowan]

No, Russian Hackers Didn’t Break Into The U.S. Electrical Grid

WAPO Claims Russian Hackers Broke Into Electrical Grid
“Russian operation hacked a Vermont utility, showing risk to U.S. electrical grid security, officials say.” That was the headline at the Washington Post for a story which in reality did not involve hacking a utility, risking a grid, or even really Russians, above and beyond the nominal attribution of any malware to Russia these days.
The story stems from a report last night that a single laptop, owned by the Burlington, Vermont power company but not connected to anything, had become infected with malware sort of similar to what targeted the Democrats during the 2016 election campaign. And since we’re blaming Russia for that, we’re blaming Russia for this, by God.
But the laptop wasn’t critical infrastructure, wasn’t connected to anything in the grid, and there’s no evidence the malware did anything to it anyhow. Even putting aside the tenuous Russia link, officials like the Vermont Public Service Commissioner were quick to point out that the grid was not in danger in any way.
The Washington Post, however, hunted for a story, and got Vermont’s Governor Peter Shumlin to condemn Putin as “one of the world’s leading thugs,” and accused him of “attempting to hack our electric grid.” Shumlin and other top Vermont Democrats were only too willing to issue statements based on the Washington Post’s allegations, and the Washington Post was only too willing to keep the echo chamber going.
In the end, the Washington Post kept the false story up, but added an Editor’s Note admitting that there was no indication the grid was penetrated, and noting that the computer was not attached to the grid.
The note was added way at the bottom of the long, hysterical story.

http://wearechange.org/russian-hackers-electrical-grid/

[Sandydragon]

No, Russian Hackers Didn’t Break Into The U.S. Electrical Grid

WAPO Claims Russian Hackers Broke Into Electrical Grid
“Russian operation hacked a Vermont utility, showing risk to U.S. electrical grid security, officials say.” That was the headline at the Washington Post for a story which in reality did not involve hacking a utility, risking a grid, or even really Russians, above and beyond the nominal attribution of any malware to Russia these days.
The story stems from a report last night that a single laptop, owned by the Burlington, Vermont power company but not connected to anything, had become infected with malware sort of similar to what targeted the Democrats during the 2016 election campaign. And since we’re blaming Russia for that, we’re blaming Russia for this, by God.
But the laptop wasn’t critical infrastructure, wasn’t connected to anything in the grid, and there’s no evidence the malware did anything to it anyhow. Even putting aside the tenuous Russia link, officials like the Vermont Public Service Commissioner were quick to point out that the grid was not in danger in any way.
The Washington Post, however, hunted for a story, and got Vermont’s Governor Peter Shumlin to condemn Putin as “one of the world’s leading thugs,” and accused him of “attempting to hack our electric grid.” Shumlin and other top Vermont Democrats were only too willing to issue statements based on the Washington Post’s allegations, and the Washington Post was only too willing to keep the echo chamber going.
In the end, the Washington Post kept the false story up, but added an Editor’s Note admitting that there was no indication the grid was penetrated, and noting that the computer was not attached to the grid.
The note was added way at the bottom of the long, hysterical story.

http://wearechange.org/russian-hackers-electrical-grid/

Most stories involving cyber attacks are incorrect. Journalists don't understand and make assumptions.
There's no need t put forward tenuous links to Russian hacking when there are much better examples from Georgia, Estonia or Ukraine.

[Sandydragon]

Mean while it appears that Trumps bromance with Putin is starting to annoy a good few other US politicians. At some point he may grow up, but I don't think he ever listens to anyone but himself.

[rowan]

Mean while it appears that Trumps bromance with Putin is starting to annoy a good few other US politicians. At some point he may grow up, but I don't think he ever listens to anyone but himself.

How outrageous - an American leader actually getting along with his Russian counterpart! This must be stopped! We want another World War and we want it now!

[Mikey Brown]

[morepork]

That's one hell of an image there Mikey boy. You have to marvel at his insistence on imposing this peculiar larger than life coiffured special needs look in such inappropriate contexts.

[Sandydragon]

Mean while it appears that Trumps bromance with Putin is starting to annoy a good few other US politicians. At some point he may grow up, but I don't think he ever listens to anyone but himself.

How outrageous - an American leader actually getting along with his Russian counterpart! This must be stopped! We want another World War and we want it now!

Or perhaps they don't just rely on anternative media for their information?

[Sandydragon]

That's one hell of an image there Mikey boy. You have to marvel at his insistence on imposing this peculiar larger than life coiffured special needs look in such inappropriate contexts.

The gold plated Trump tower in Las Vegas is a nice symbol above the slums and rough sleepers.

[WaspInWales]

That's one hell of an image there Mikey boy. You have to marvel at his insistence on imposing this peculiar larger than life coiffured special needs look in such inappropriate contexts.

The gold plated Trump tower in Las Vegas is a nice symbol above the slums and rough sleepers.

In a few months time, everyone in the US will live in a building like that.

#MAGA

[rowan]

Mean while it appears that Trumps bromance with Putin is starting to annoy a good few other US politicians. At some point he may grow up, but I don't think he ever listens to anyone but himself.

How outrageous - an American leader actually getting along with his Russian counterpart! This must be stopped! We want another World War and we want it now!

Or perhaps they don't just rely on anternative media for their information?

It's more reliable than the mainstream media, which helped bring about the genocide in Iraq. In fact, the war couldn't have happened without their government-sourced lies and propaganda.