Lions

[Wylie Coyote]

I feel sorry for any Scots that have coughed up a lot of dosh to go to NZ. Imagine spending a few weeks having to listen to all the chippy Welsh pricks.

I agree with D. The tours are great. The Welsh traditionally make up the bulk of the traveling support, they are deadly. It's all too easy to confuse the Internet with what people are like. Some fat cunt, 40 year old man child posting with a "internet persona" isn't a fair reflection of anything.

I was waiting for a "...but enough about me" at the end there.

As for the touring party:





Iain Henderson



Can someone explain that to me? I've tried using logic and I'm not getting anywhere.

Henderson & a barely fit George Kruis who hasn't played international rugby this year + Courtney Lawes were all 50:50 or less, versus Grays & Launchbury. 3 unlucky locks, 2 out of 3 are Scots.

[skidger]

I feel sorry for any Scots that have coughed up a lot of dosh to go to NZ. Imagine spending a few weeks having to listen to all the chippy Welsh pricks.

Indeed. It would much better to go to Weston Super Mare which is full of them between May and September. Similar climate also.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Looking at the squad. ADJ probably has to go. Very little Lions experience in that tight 5. 2 and a half tours without him in there.

Actually, very few previous tourists in the forwards.

Could have taken Richie G to help with that.

You boys have been screwed. Taking Irishmen over your boys is justifiable. taking Englishmen over your boys is certainly justifiable. Taking Welshmen just isn't.

Have a look at the funny balance of the team. 3 full backs when you've got the likes of Daly and Payne who can also play there? Oh look one of them is 1/2p who doesn't even vaguely deserve his slot. Shit loads of centres? Oh look there's JD2 who doesn't even vaguely deserve his slot. Shit loads of back rowers? Oh look there's Moriarty who appears to have got his slot on the basis of 60 minutes against England. I reckon the WRU have insisted he picks a quota of welshmen.

FFS.

[whatisthejava]

Looking at the squad. ADJ probably has to go. Very little Lions experience in that tight 5. 2 and a half tours without him in there.

Actually, very few previous tourists in the forwards.

Could have taken Richie G to help with that.

You boys have been screwed. Taking Irishmen over your boys is justifiable. taking Englishmen over your boys is certainly justifiable. Taking Welshmen just isn't.

Have a look at the funny balance of the team. 3 full backs when you've got the likes of Daly and Payne who can also play there? Oh look one of them is 1/2p who doesn't even vaguely deserve his slot. Shit loads of centres? Oh look there's JD2 who doesn't even vaguely deserve his slot. Shit loads of back rowers? Oh look there's Moriarty who appears to have got his slot on the basis of 60 minutes against England. I reckon the WRU have insisted he picks a quota of welshmen.
FFS.

I dont buy that few tourists, some guys have 50 - 60 caps and sometimes like England under RObshaw you have to wipe the slate clean and build it

I think the most interesting thing is Telfer has come out and ripped into them, telfer has never been shy about telling the world how sh!t scotland players are but he is now,

my predictions is a squad split, not alot of love between the home nations but some english boys will quite rightly look at Henderson and AWJ and ask how the feck are you here
some of the centres will look at JD and ask how the feck are you here
some of the wings will be asking how 1/2p is there
most people will be wondering how Moriarty got there

The schedule is a disaster, many players picked who were exremly lucky to tour, a bad game plan which cant work against the all blacks, is it me or is this just another repeat of 2005 which means alot of hand ringing by the blazerati in 4 years and another need to pick a safe pair of hands to rebuild the lions,

And i think most of all its another wasted chance to take on the kiwis, the lions blazerati need to go, well done you were the invincibles but now your old crusty men and f**k off. Time for some leadership in the lions with experiance in the pro game who have watched successive tours be used in a selfish way to benefit welsh rugby at the expense of the other home nations.

[hugh_woatmeigh]

Looking at the squad. ADJ probably has to go. Very little Lions experience in that tight 5. 2 and a half tours without him in there.

Actually, very few previous tourists in the forwards.

Could have taken Richie G to help with that.

You boys have been screwed. Taking Irishmen over your boys is justifiable. taking Englishmen over your boys is certainly justifiable. Taking Welshmen just isn't.

Have a look at the funny balance of the team. 3 full backs when you've got the likes of Daly and Payne who can also play there? Oh look one of them is 1/2p who doesn't even vaguely deserve his slot. Shit loads of centres? Oh look there's JD2 who doesn't even vaguely deserve his slot. Shit loads of back rowers? Oh look there's Moriarty who appears to have got his slot on the basis of 60 minutes against England. I reckon the WRU have insisted he picks a quota of welshmen.
FFS.

my predictions is a squad split, not alot of love between the home nations but some english boys will quite rightly look at Henderson and AWJ and ask how the feck are you here
some of the centres will look at JD and ask how the feck are you here
some of the wings will be asking how 1/2p is there
most people will be wondering how Moriarty got there

No they won't.

[whatisthejava]

Quite alot of lions squads have splits (some big, some small), its only the last 2 that have not had big ones although that was prob down to certain players keeping quite rather than speakign out

Interesting Shanklin thinks we lack individual skills http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39648292

Strange how we outtackled, out rucked, out thought and out passed them

[Mikey Brown]

Yes, that's a very strange interpretation.

Were you aware that Dan Biggar doesn't like losing though?

[ARM]

I have no doubt that Gatland and Co feel that they have picked the squad to give them the best possible chance of being competitive against the Soup sides and the ABs.

I think that due to the preposterous scheduling and difficulty of the itinerary, that they will have thought long and hard about availability and squad familiarity. On availability: Payne, Moriarty, Henderson, Teo, and some of the home based Welsh players may well have been picked as it is deemed unlikely they will be involved in the business end of the domestic or European tournaments. You could say the same for Scottish players but that's perhaps where the familiarity bit comes in.

To be clear I don't like it and would have rather have a fuller Scottish representation. It is what it is. I'll still be looking for the Lions to do something special in NZ as they are massive underdogs. I like an underdog story and and it would be the sporting result of the year if they were able to nick a Test series in NZ, however unlikely that may be. And I do think its very unlikely.

Meanwhile Toony can get on with putting across his vision to the squad and making us better. Lets finish in the top half of the 6N next year, beat the Welsh in Cardiff and Italy in Rome. Beat England and France at home. And O'Halloran and later Rennie can get to work on a decent pre-season to make Glasgow more competitive next year. That's what I'm focused on in rugby.

Meanwhile the SRU picks up somewhere in the region of £2m as its financial dividend from Lions Tour profits. As an equal shareholder, there is a straight split four ways between the home unions, irrespective of player representation. And we wont have the same impact on our clubs and national side in the first half of next year.

Oh and congrats and good luck to Hogg and Seymour. I hope they shine. They have the quality and character to have great tours.

[Big D]

The strange thing about Teo is I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't start any games. He has caught the eye off the bench for England and that's how I think he'll be used on tour.

[Digby]

Meanwhile the SRU picks up somewhere in the region of £2m as its financial dividend from Lions Tour profits. As an equal shareholder, there is a straight split four ways between the home unions, irrespective of player representation. And we wont have the same impact on our clubs and national side in the first half of next year.

True, but they also get paid per player, and so the WRU who release Gats for such service will pick up £840k compared to the SRU who'll get just £140k. In a lot of organisations that'd be considered a conflict of interest, not here it seems

[hugh_woatmeigh]

Meanwhile the SRU picks up somewhere in the region of £2m as its financial dividend from Lions Tour profits. As an equal shareholder, there is a straight split four ways between the home unions, irrespective of player representation. And we wont have the same impact on our clubs and national side in the first half of next year.

True, but they also get paid per player, and so the WRU who release Gats for such service will pick up £840k compared to the SRU who'll get just £140k. In a lot of organisations that'd be considered a conflict of interest, not here it seems

Why? They lose them for a fair chunk of the season as they need to recover. There will be a broken players too.

[BBD]

As we have seen previously, a few of those selected will be unlucky enough to pick up injuries before the season ends and during the tour that will mean replacements flying out to join the squad. Who knows we may even have a Hartleyesque ban before the tour. The 41 selected so far certainly won't be unscathed

[SerjeantWildgoose]

Who knows we may even have a Hartleyesque ban before the tour.

... or a Quinny-esque?

Is anyone opening the book?

My money would be on anyone from the Ospreys or Scarlets who will be having to kick lumps off each other in 3 weeks to secure a Pro12 play-off slot.

[whatisthejava]

As we have seen previously, a few of those selected will be unlucky enough to pick up injuries before the season ends and during the tour that will mean replacements flying out to join the squad. Who knows we may even have a Hartleyesque ban before the tour. The 41 selected so far certainly won't be unscathed

i think the thing that sticks the most for scots is for the last 3 tours the excuse has been well your not winning so we dont need to look at individual performances, now its well who cares about your team winning because man on man your not as good as the welsh.

Supposedly AWJ is 50/50 to go but then i still think your looking at DOR before Jonny Gray
Connor Murray may not be right yet
Warburton may not even play as he may not fully recover so sooner or later they will make a call there

I think before the tour even leaves 2 - 3 players will take another knock which means they are out but I think even now i cant think of a single player who is definitely next choice, the scots just dont really fit gatball

1 - Gats will take a welsh loosie
2 - Possibly Brown
3 - Samson lee
4 - Chateris
5 - DOR
6 Robshaw (remember Rowntree been working with Quins)
7 Haskell,
8 Heaslip - (wasps 8)
9 Care - LLoyd Williams
10 Ford - Russel
11 Zebo
12 Roberts - Williams
13 Ringrose
14 Maitland
15 Brown

And even then you could argue 1 - 2 players ahead of a scot

[BBD]

I don't see how Gatball will be an effective tactic against NZ at all. But then that goes back to the original decision to choose Gatland in the first place, everyone knows exactly what they will try and do and how blunt it is as a tool.
In some ways Scotland is better off out of it.

[SerjeantWildgoose]

This is the Accenture statistical team of the 2017 6Ns, which would suggest that Launchbury, Russell, Zebo and Earls have the clearest shout for being hard done by. Of these, I think only Launchbury has a cast iron case that he's missed out to lads who are not quite as good.

And sorry, but those of you questioning the Oranje ballix Henderson's selection need to get your heads out of your hands and take an honest look at the lad.

Having said that, I am entirely selfish and wish that Connor, CJ and POM had lost out too.

[bruce]

This is the Accenture statistical team of the 2017 6Ns, which would suggest that Launchbury, Russell, Zebo and Earls have the clearest shout for being hard done by. Of these, I think only Launchbury has a cast iron case that he's missed out to lads who are not quite as good.

And sorry, but those of you questioning the Oranje ballix Henderson's selection need to get your heads out of your hands and take an honest look at the lad.

Having said that, I am entirely selfish and wish that Connor, CJ and POM had lost out too.

Surely that's not JD2 at 13, the worst centre actively playing rugby according to some?!

[Stones of granite]

As we have seen previously, a few of those selected will be unlucky enough to pick up injuries before the season ends and during the tour that will mean replacements flying out to join the squad. Who knows we may even have a Hartleyesque ban before the tour. The 41 selected so far certainly won't be unscathed

Probably best that George North doesn't do anything more robust with his head than have his haircut.

[Mellsblue]

I think if there's an injury at lock (J Gray), backrow (Watson), SH (Laidlaw), FH (Russell) or back 3 (Maitland) a Scot could well be next in line.

[SerjeantWildgoose]

Lock - Launchbury (J Grey started well, but was AWOL in the last 2 rounds of 6Ns)
Back Row - Agreed, Hamish has been hard done by but to be honest I've watched a lot of Tim Swinson this season and thought he would be a bolter.
SH - er, balls! Laidlaw is a steady kicker off the tee, but I'd take Care or Marmion ahead of him.
FH - Agreed, but only because there's no one else and even then he needs to grow the balls to take a drop goal to win a game. let's be honest if Sexton gets knackered, the Lions are fecked.
Back 3 - Maitland! My arse!

[ARM]

Meanwhile the SRU picks up somewhere in the region of £2m as its financial dividend from Lions Tour profits. As an equal shareholder, there is a straight split four ways between the home unions, irrespective of player representation. And we wont have the same impact on our clubs and national side in the first half of next year.

True, but they also get paid per player, and so the WRU who release Gats for such service will pick up £840k compared to the SRU who'll get just £140k. In a lot of organisations that'd be considered a conflict of interest, not here it seems

Thanks. I'd seen the 70,000 figure quoted in a number of places in relation to player payments.

Having now researched further I see there is an equivalent amount paid to unions to compensate for lack of availability for summer tours. Can see the logic. How do the RFU sort this - do they collect and reimburse to the clubs or is it all tied up in the with PRL agreement?

There will also be compensation to clubs for any injuries incurred on tour - presumably backed off with insurance.

[whatisthejava]

If you really want to feel good about how our players are viewed Wales Online have an interesting take on it, basically as we have had poor lions representations we needed to play above and beyond to deserve any shots,

[switchskier]

Gatland already talking about goalkicking so that's goodbye to Hogg's chances of starting the first test.

[ARM]

Gatland already talking about goalkicking so that's goodbye to Hogg's chances of starting the first test.

Sexton/Farrell have that covered.

Tries might also be quite important. 1/2p has scored one Test try in the last five years.

[kk67]

most people will be wondering how Moriarty got there


No they won't.

He is a surprising pick but Flatman was touting his inclusion back in October,.....which made me start to watch him.
He's no slouch.