Transfer gossip - sometimes even accurate (accidentally) - Season 2022/23

[Puja]

Apparently Oghre has signed a short term deal with Tigers. Presumably replacing Horton who was on loan from the Tahs and to be fair has been very good in the PRC, shame he didn't get a go in the Prem Vs Bath when for some reason we opted for TCD. Oghre being EQ, young and talented probably means the end for TCD as well if a longer contract can be arranged.

Ooh. Pleased by that.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

I'd have liked Bath to go in for Oghre - academy boy and all that, and very talented. But I guess we just don't have room, and we've 3 very good hookers already

Leicester have a good one there

[fivepointer]

as far as i'm aware Sam Spink is still looking for a new team. Find that really odd. Thought he would be snapped up by now.

[twitchy]

I'd have liked Bath to go in for Oghre - academy boy and all that, and very talented. But I guess we just don't have room, and we've 3 very good hookers already

Leicester have a good one there

You have profited far too much already from this.

[Puja]

as far as i'm aware Sam Spink is still looking for a new team. Find that really odd. Thought he would be snapped up by now.

That *is* weird. Would've thought there'd be half a dozen clubs who could use him.

Puja

[Tigersman]

as far as i'm aware Sam Spink is still looking for a new team. Find that really odd. Thought he would be snapped up by now.

That *is* weird. Would've thought there'd be half a dozen clubs who could use him.

Puja

Might be a case of cap space though.
Centre isn't a position I would say most are wanting to risk spending on straight away just yet.

[chris18501]

Guess Sale would have potentially been interested in Spink but went for Mills instead

[fivepointer]

Quite. A number of Wasps/Wuss players have found other clubs. Spink, who looked every inch a good Prem player and possibly more, would surely have attracted some interest. He's not even playing in the Championship.

[Which Tyler]

Alfie to Bath confirmed.


Expects to be back form injury January / February - and NOT a natural in front of a microphone

[Scrumhead]

I’m still unsure how Bath have the cap space for all of these signings? Even if they’re on considerably less money this season, we’re now talking about several players on the fringes of the England squad, not squad players like other clubs have picked up. Am I jealous? Yes - 100%, but it does feel odd to me.

[Puja]

I’m still unsure how Bath have the cap space for all of these signings? Even if they’re on considerably less money this season, we’re now talking about several players on the fringes of the England squad, not squad players like other clubs have picked up. Am I jealous? Yes - 100%, but it does feel odd to me.

Plus it's worth remembering the sheer depth of Bath's injury woes. Obano and Stuart would've been on fairly solid wedges as high-quality props, Ewels wouldn't be cheap, and they've also lost Underhill, WSpencer, Reid, McNally, Francis, and Muir for a reasonable chunk of time. They've got a minimum of three test players/first team regulars worth of salary cap in injury dispensation if we're assuming they're paying full price, which they're absolutely not going to be in this current climate.

Puja

THE LEVEL OF THE SALARY CAP

The level of the Salary Cap is proportionate and aligned to the growth of the business and is linked directly to the central distributions to the clubs from Premiership Rugby.

For the 2020-21 Salary Cap Year, the level of the Salary Cap is £6,400,000 with the following credits and exclusions:

Home Grown Player Credits totalling £600,000 (up to £50,000 per player) – designed to incentivise clubs to retain home grown talent;
EPS/International Player Credits no overall limit but up to £80,000 per player – to cover player absence during international periods;
Injured Player Credits totalling £400,000 – to allow replacement players to cover for long term injuries;
Two Excluded Players – their entire salary is excluded from the salary cap;
Unlimited education fund for players.
For the 2021-22 Salary Cap Year, the level is being reduced to £5,000,000 with the same credits, save for the total EPS/International Player Credits is capped at £400,000.

Slightly outdated but I presume the cap on injury dispensation remains as is.

If we assume they're getting the full £400k (seems safe), then yes I absolutely believe they could pick up Lawrence, Hill, Barbeary, et al for that, given what we've heard elsewhere of market conditions.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

And Quinn Roux? And Shillcock? And Lee-Warner?

I know it’s been ‘explained’ before, but I’m still unconvinced.

[Which Tyler]

We know that all of these transactions for all the clubs, are happening under intense scrutiny, including from the salary cap commissioner.

65 cap Joe Launchbury was being offered £60k in the Premiership (from a previous £400k contract with Wasps)
Current England squad player Jack WIllis was being offered an actual academy contract
Other ex-wasps and ex-wuss players have talked about being offered academy level contracts (by definition <£50k)

We know that Bath have the entire £400k to play with for recruiting.
We know that Bath have the entirety of 30 cap, current England squad player and (at the time) club captain, Charlie Ewels salary to play with, so somewhere around £250k.
We know that Bath generally keep aside money above and beyond the injury allowance for mid-season signings; enough for, for example, 6 months of Rhys Webb, or Danny Cipriani - so about £150k-200k.
We can reasonably presume that this is more for this year, to allow the new head coach a little more leeway.

So out of the £800k or so Bath are likely to have to play with, how many salaries count as suspicious - given that the going rate for £30-50K for a capped international, up to £60k for a 60 capped international. (Quinn Roux and Aranos Coetzee excepted, as they were signed before the Wuss and Wasps players came on the market)
Only Quinn Roux, Ollie Lawrence, Ted Hill and Alfie Barbeary are for the rest of the season (which is still 7-8 months, not 12), the others are "short term", likely to mean 2-3 months (including ACoetzee who's already left).

[Puja]

as far as i'm aware Sam Spink is still looking for a new team. Find that really odd. Thought he would be snapped up by now.

Just found out that he's heavily rumoured to be joining Western Force. Hope he has fun there!

Next on the list of, "I haven't heard of them getting a contract and that baffles me," is semi-recent EPS inclusion Tom West.

Puja

[FKAS]

as far as i'm aware Sam Spink is still looking for a new team. Find that really odd. Thought he would be snapped up by now.

Just found out that he's heavily rumoured to be joining Western Force. Hope he has fun there!

Next on the list of, "I haven't heard of them getting a contract and that baffles me," is semi-recent EPS inclusion Tom West.

Puja

Another I expected to be off the market quickly. Several sides in this league could do with a 25 year loosehead that solid at scrum time but mobile enough to keep up with how Wasps liked to play. Saints for starters considering they've had injury issues. He must be against moving to France or injured otherwise surely they'd be at least a couple of ProD2 deals in his inbox.

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah, he’s another I’d have loved Quins to get ahold of, but I guess we don’t have the space that Bath do, though I guess he’d want to be the established starter right away?

I know they’ve had a good team on paper for a while now but it does feel like Bath could really turn things around here. On one hand I’m very pleased for them, but it’s hard not to feel a bit conflicted about the way it’s come about.

[Peej]

Circling back, I saw it reported that the RFU didn't even make an offer to Edwards.

Pleased for Oghre, that's a good signing for Tigers.

[Which Tyler]

Circling back, I saw it reported that the RFU didn't even make an offer to Edwards.

so, 9 months before finishing their due diligence and making a decision, 14 months before they'd be announcing anything, they didn't make an offer to Edwards.

As far as I can tell, Edwards signing a contract extension with France 14 months before the end of his current contract really isn't anything to blame the RFU for - however much we enjoy blaming the RFU for things.

RFU are looking to change the coaching regime post-RWC, and a year out, are in the early stages of putting plans in place.
France are committed to keeping their current regime, and have signed them up nice and early.

The only talks the RFU should really be having with anyone at this stage is "are you interested in the head coach role?" No contract offers should be being made yet. The chosen head coach should then be putting his own team together, not the RFU announcing assistant coaches first.

Sean Edwards is still reasonably young in coaching terms; and doing what we want of future coaches in getting international experience in several different set-ups; he's got plenty of time to put in another 4 years with France (where he probably sees this RWC as a job not-yet completed) and come back to England for 1 or 2 RWC cycles at the top of his game.

Yes, I'd have liked him to come to a job with England now; but I can't see that the RFU have done anything particularly wrong by not offering him a contract in November 2022

[Margin_Walker]

Tend to agree with that. Ultimately he's a defence coach (a very good one) too. It's a long time since he's been a Head Coach anywhere. Would a defence coach role with England even have been enough to turn his head, or would he only have moved for the top job?

If the latter, then there are probably guys out there with more relevant role specific (i.e head coach) recent experience. Think I read Robertson, O'Gara and Borthwick are on a short list, which would make sense as an initial pool of candidates for me.

[Peej]

I think there's an argument that Edwards is a better assistant than ever being the head honcho, going right back to Wasps. But I assume he is expecting to go for the top job, not be an assistant for the next England coach.

But of those three, MW, none have the coaching CV of Edwards given his domestic and international success. Even Robertson has never coached beyond Super rugby. And I just can't see ROG coaching England.

[Margin_Walker]

I think there's an argument that Edwards is a better assistant than ever being the head honcho, going right back to Wasps. But I assume he is expecting to go for the top job, not be an assistant for the next England coach.

But of those three, MW, none have the coaching CV of Edwards given his domestic and international success. Even Robertson has never coached beyond Super rugby. And I just can't see ROG coaching England.

Would agree to an extent, but unless you're going for an old head like Gatland, few do. I'd rather someone on the up getting their first international gig.

The three listed there do have a mountain more experience than the likes of Johnson and Lancaster did when appointed to be fair. Actually think ROG would take the England role if offered and he'd be my pick of those three for what it's worth. I'd personally be fine with it, but I know plenty are keen for it to go to someone English, which is fair enough as a view point too.

[Mellsblue]

The Times today are saying the RFU have settled on a shortlist of Robertson, O’Gara and Borthwick. Hopefully, the first two enjoyed their time with the BaaBaas so much that they’ll be happy to reprise their double act for England. In an interview a few weeks back ROG said he’s definitely interested in the England job.
Assuming the RFU were interested in Edwards, then they’ve messed up by not talking to him, imo. Last I heard, their stated aim is to have Jones’s successor in camp for the pre-world cup training camp so they’ve only really got five months, and even then they’d leaving it to the last minute, to approach current employers, conduct interviews, agree compensation with the current employers and contract terms with the new coach whilst one of the candidates is on the other side of the world and the other two are mid-season.

[Timbo]

There’s definitely something alluring about Scott Robertson. Apparently a brilliant coach to work for, great man manager. Would be interesting to see if the RFU make him a firm offer will he accept it or wait to see what the All Blacks are doing post ‘23.

[Banquo]

There’s definitely something alluring about Scott Robertson. Apparently a brilliant coach to work for, great man manager. Would be interesting to see if the RFU make him a firm offer will he accept it or wait to see what the All Blacks are doing post ‘23.

Agreed, would love to get him on board. ROG would be interesting.

[Tom Moore]

Currently, I'd settle for Scott Robinson from Neighbours and Ronan Keating.