RugbyRebels

p/d wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:26 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 3:56 pm Think the Jersey pack might have been just a touch hacked off that their impressive scrum led to a Bedford score!

'bout the only points Bedford got wasn't it, and they were gifted.

and when did the Gary Linekar short become fashionable again?

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:44 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:26 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 3:56 pm Think the Jersey pack might have been just a touch hacked off that their impressive scrum led to a Bedford score!

'bout the only points Bedford got wasn't it, and they were gifted.

and when did the Gary Linekar short become fashionable again?

He's still wearing his m and y shorts- deprived area, Bedford.

p/d wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 9:06 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:44 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:26 pm

'bout the only points Bedford got wasn't it, and they were gifted.

and when did the Gary Linekar short become fashionable again?

He's still wearing his m and y shorts- deprived area, Bedford.

On a separate note are we at risk of Big Stevie B (have to credit Cashead for that one) of naming Ewels as captain

p/d wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 9:06 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:44 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:26 pm

'bout the only points Bedford got wasn't it, and they were gifted.

and when did the Gary Linekar short become fashionable again?

He's still wearing his m and y shorts- deprived area, Bedford.

On a separate note are we at risk of Big Stevie B (have to credit Cashead for that one) of naming Ewels as captain

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:44 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:26 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 3:56 pm Think the Jersey pack might have been just a touch hacked off that their impressive scrum led to a Bedford score!

'bout the only points Bedford got wasn't it, and they were gifted.

and when did the Gary Linekar short become fashionable again?

He's still wearing his m and y shorts- deprived area, Bedford.

FKAS wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 9:42 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 9:06 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:44 pm

He's still wearing his m and y shorts- deprived area, Bedford.

On a separate note are we at risk of Big Stevie B (have to credit Cashead for that one) of naming Ewels as captain

I think we're safe. Mainly because Ewels is injured. I'm expecting it to be Lawes or Genge.

p/d wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 9:06 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:44 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 5:26 pm

'bout the only points Bedford got wasn't it, and they were gifted.

and when did the Gary Linekar short become fashionable again?

He's still wearing his m and y shorts- deprived area, Bedford.

On a separate note are we at risk of Big Stevie B (have to credit Cashead for that one) of naming Ewels as captain

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:40 am Sam Warburton column in The Times today about Big ol’ Borthers: ‘His thinking was that if the quality was top-notch, then it did not matter what the defensive team was doing’. SW was writing about lineout drills but I hope BoB brings this philosophy to all facets.

and it gets better from BoB: “We want to develop decision makers on the field and, if you see something that hasn’t been coached and you need to do it, do it”.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:17 am I'm wondering if Borthwick will decide on Itoje for captain. His absence from Jones's consideration always surprised me. One big factor (which has always applied to Farrell as well) is that he always does the whole 80 minutes. That is an argument against Genge. Props rarely stay on the pitch for more than three quarters of the game.

I think Itoje has failed to make progress in the last three years. He has been a damned good player but he ought to have become the best lock in world rugby by now.

p/d wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:23 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:17 am I'm wondering if Borthwick will decide on Itoje for captain. His absence from Jones's consideration always surprised me. One big factor (which has always applied to Farrell as well) is that he always does the whole 80 minutes. That is an argument against Genge. Props rarely stay on the pitch for more than three quarters of the game.

I think Itoje has failed to make progress in the last three years. He has been a damned good player but he ought to have become the best lock in world rugby by now.

How often does Kolisi do the full 80?

I think the captain 'tag' a bit redundant in the most part. Pack leader and someone calling the shots in the backs is all we need. If we want someone to point at the posts occasionally then prior to kick off tell the ref who that will be.

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:37 am

p/d wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:23 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:17 am I'm wondering if Borthwick will decide on Itoje for captain. His absence from Jones's consideration always surprised me. One big factor (which has always applied to Farrell as well) is that he always does the whole 80 minutes. That is an argument against Genge. Props rarely stay on the pitch for more than three quarters of the game.

I think Itoje has failed to make progress in the last three years. He has been a damned good player but he ought to have become the best lock in world rugby by now.

How often does Kolisi do the full 80?

I think the captain 'tag' a bit redundant in the most part. Pack leader and someone calling the shots in the backs is all we need. If we want someone to point at the posts occasionally then prior to kick off tell the ref who that will be.

Disagree. Quite apart from the galvanising effect it can have on a player to be trusted and given responsibility (cf. Genge), it's massive for the team from a psychological perspective to have an on-field figurehead to inspire and encourage.

Plus, communicating with the referee is more important than ever nowadays.

Puja

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:40 am Sam Warburton column in The Times today about Big ol’ Borthers: ‘His thinking was that if the quality was top-notch, then it did not matter what the defensive team was doing’. SW was writing about lineout drills but I hope BoB brings this philosophy to all facets.

and it gets better from BoB: “We want to develop decision makers on the field and, if you see something that hasn’t been coached and you need to do it, do it”.

p/d wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:59 am

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:37 am

p/d wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:23 am

How often does Kolisi do the full 80?

I think the captain 'tag' a bit redundant in the most part. Pack leader and someone calling the shots in the backs is all we need. If we want someone to point at the posts occasionally then prior to kick off tell the ref who that will be.

Disagree. Quite apart from the galvanising effect it can have on a player to be trusted and given responsibility (cf. Genge), it's massive for the team from a psychological perspective to have an on-field figurehead to inspire and encourage.

Plus, communicating with the referee is more important than ever nowadays.

Puja

It has been devalued with the appointment of a plethora of 'vice captain's'. No problems with naming a captain who is best at communicating with the ref, but the likes of Itoje should not require the armband to galvanise his fellow forwards

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 9:30 am

p/d wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:59 am

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 8:37 am

Disagree. Quite apart from the galvanising effect it can have on a player to be trusted and given responsibility (cf. Genge), it's massive for the team from a psychological perspective to have an on-field figurehead to inspire and encourage.

Plus, communicating with the referee is more important than ever nowadays.

Puja

It has been devalued with the appointment of a plethora of 'vice captain's'. No problems with naming a captain who is best at communicating with the ref, but the likes of Itoje should not require the armband to galvanise his fellow forwards

Still a vital role imo- we've touched on communicating with the ref, and frankly no-one should need galvanising to play intl rugby, but when the plan isn't working (whether its a framework or a detailed game plan), the skipper should be the key guy in regrouping and reshaping. The best captains do this.

Banquo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 9:26 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:40 am Sam Warburton column in The Times today about Big ol’ Borthers: ‘His thinking was that if the quality was top-notch, then it did not matter what the defensive team was doing’. SW was writing about lineout drills but I hope BoB brings this philosophy to all facets.

and it gets better from BoB: “We want to develop decision makers on the field and, if you see something that hasn’t been coached and you need to do it, do it”.

Did Sam Warburton write an article about Borthwick in the Times?

Spiffy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 2:26 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:40 am Sam Warburton column in The Times today about Big ol’ Borthers: ‘His thinking was that if the quality was top-notch, then it did not matter what the defensive team was doing’. SW was writing about lineout drills but I hope BoB brings this philosophy to all facets.

and it gets better from BoB: “We want to develop decision makers on the field and, if you see something that hasn’t been coached and you need to do it, do it”.

This is hardly revolutionary in the annals of rugby coaching. It's pretty obvious that you can only coach so much, but successful teams have always gone beyond the play-by-numbers approach and left on-field decisions in the hands of play makers. One of the biggest problems of the Jones era was that players seemed reluctant to depart from the rigid game plan and just play what was in front of them, possibly (probably?) from fear of being dropped from not obeying H.M.V.
This was the case with the Ireland team under Joe Schmidt, which was reasonably successful, but played like automatons and lacked the rounded/flexible game we have seen under Farrell since his departure.

p/d wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 10:41 am Itoje!!! .......... isn't screaming at the ref frowned upon?

I'm still very much of the view, pick your 15 pick your captain.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:02 am

Spiffy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 2:26 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:40 am Sam Warburton column in The Times today about Big ol’ Borthers: ‘His thinking was that if the quality was top-notch, then it did not matter what the defensive team was doing’. SW was writing about lineout drills but I hope BoB brings this philosophy to all facets.

and it gets better from BoB: “We want to develop decision makers on the field and, if you see something that hasn’t been coached and you need to do it, do it”.

This is hardly revolutionary in the annals of rugby coaching. It's pretty obvious that you can only coach so much, but successful teams have always gone beyond the play-by-numbers approach and left on-field decisions in the hands of play makers. One of the biggest problems of the Jones era was that players seemed reluctant to depart from the rigid game plan and just play what was in front of them, possibly (probably?) from fear of being dropped from not obeying H.M.V.
This was the case with the Ireland team under Joe Schmidt, which was reasonably successful, but played like automatons and lacked the rounded/flexible game we have seen under Farrell since his departure.

Yep, exactly why I posted the quotes.