RugbyRebels

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:19 pm Farrell isnt going to be dropped.
As much as we may not like it SB has made him captain and will stick with him.
Right now he's going to limit the number of moving parts in this team in order to try and nail down some basics.
As much as it pains me to say this again but Farrell has been selected by every coach he's worked with and is obviously valued for what he brings to the team.

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:44 am

p/d wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:37 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:24 am Twitter reply concludes that Ford should come in at 10, with Faz going back to 12. Ye gods.

twits.

I mean, that one demonstrably works. If we *have* to have Farrell (and it appears we must), then that option is way less damaging to the team than allowing him to play at 10.

Watched a video on the BBC about the kicking and got to see the grubber for George in the cold light of day. We're 7m out, Faz has just made a really good decision to sweep blind, Steward is outside him and running at the outside shoulder of a centre. With his strength and finishing skill, that is a try 9 times out of 10, if Farrell just makes a simple pass to the player next to him. And yet he kicks for a hooker to chase. What the actual shit.

41 seconds in, if anyone wants to share my pain: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-union/64620248

Puja

Spiffy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:10 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 4:08 pm

Spiffy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 3:41 pm The bottom line of all of these endless discussions on chips, grubbers, box kicks, handling, running, game plan etc....... Will Borthwick EVER have the balls to drop Farrell from the 23. If ever a single person were holding back an entire team from reaching its potential, he's yer man.
Everyone can see it except the coach.
It actually does not matter that much at present who would replace him. It's the more urgent process of just trimming off the bad bits.

He is the old handbrake for the attack but I've little faith in Smith either after his 20 appearances so far. The options outside of those two are either younger than Marcus or just players repeatedly overlooked for international selection previously for obvious reasons.

England haven't exactly produced a glut of flyhalfs previously. Basically we're stuck with the two we have unless Ford demonstrates he's full fit at the weekend.

I think that is a bit hard on Smith since practically all his caps have been beside Farrell, the inhibitory senior partner. And he has frequently been forced into playing a game that is not his natural one. I think it would be fair enough to give Smith a run at 10 with, say, Lawrence and Slade in midfield, to see what he can do in the absence of Farrell. The England /Italy game was crying out for the obvious substitution of Farrell by Smith. But what does Borthwick do - move Farrell to 12!
With regard to other contenders, Ford is the obvious one and the best but is chronically short of match time. But in the short term, players like Furbank, Atkinson, Simmons, Bailey, even Max Malins could probably do a holding job. I'm quite impressed by Malins' rugby intelligence and he has good ball skills and adequate gas. Quite surprised that no clubs have gone after him as a FH, he has experience in the slot.
I know it's probably a bit churlish to say so, but I'd prefer to see almost anyone who can pass and kick a ball, and who has a modicum of attacking intent, play ahead of Farrell. This guy is holding the team back.

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:44 am

p/d wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:37 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:24 am Twitter reply concludes that Ford should come in at 10, with Faz going back to 12. Ye gods.

twits.

I mean, that one demonstrably works. If we *have* to have Farrell (and it appears we must), then that option is way less damaging to the team than allowing him to play at 10.

Watched a video on the BBC about the kicking and got to see the grubber for George in the cold light of day. We're 7m out, Faz has just made a really good decision to sweep blind, Steward is outside him and running at the outside shoulder of a centre. With his strength and finishing skill, that is a try 9 times out of 10, if Farrell just makes a simple pass to the player next to him. And yet he kicks for a hooker to chase. What the actual shit.

41 seconds in, if anyone wants to share my pain: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-union/64620248

Puja

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:30 pm

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:43 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:24 am Twitter reply concludes that Ford should come in at 10, with Faz going back to 12. Ye gods.

50% is the pass mark, yeah?

I to agree with the first half of that.

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:53 pm

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:03 pm

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:44 am

I mean, that one demonstrably works. If we *have* to have Farrell (and it appears we must), then that option is way less damaging to the team than allowing him to play at 10.

Watched a video on the BBC about the kicking and got to see the grubber for George in the cold light of day. We're 7m out, Faz has just made a really good decision to sweep blind, Steward is outside him and running at the outside shoulder of a centre. With his strength and finishing skill, that is a try 9 times out of 10, if Farrell just makes a simple pass to the player next to him. And yet he kicks for a hooker to chase. What the actual shit.

41 seconds in, if anyone wants to share my pain: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-union/64620248

Puja

Barclay is absolutely right. Those clips are just so damning.

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 4:08 pm

Spiffy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 3:41 pm The bottom line of all of these endless discussions on chips, grubbers, box kicks, handling, running, game plan etc....... Will Borthwick EVER have the balls to drop Farrell from the 23. If ever a single person were holding back an entire team from reaching its potential, he's yer man.
Everyone can see it except the coach.
It actually does not matter that much at present who would replace him. It's the more urgent process of just trimming off the bad bits.

He is the old handbrake for the attack but I've little faith in Smith either after his 20 appearances so far. The options outside of those two are either younger than Marcus or just players repeatedly overlooked for international selection previously for obvious reasons.

England haven't exactly produced a glut of flyhalfs previously. Basically we're stuck with the two we have unless Ford demonstrates he's full fit at the weekend.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:08 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 4:28 pm 10. Smith (F)
12. Atkinson
13. Lawrence

That would be better than Smith, Farrell, some poor sod

It certainly has some nice balance, in theory. How do you think each of those will cope with constant change of tactics, coaches and players alongside?

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:19 pm Farrell isnt going to be dropped.
As much as we may not like it SB has made him captain and will stick with him.
Right now he's going to limit the number of moving parts

p/d wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:49 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:19 pm Farrell isnt going to be dropped.
As much as we may not like it SB has made him captain and will stick with him.
Right now he's going to limit the number of moving parts

Yesterday his head, in 2 weeks his arms bandaged together. Come the Ireland game the crowd will rise to greet King Tutankhamun

Spiffy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:30 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:19 pm Farrell isnt going to be dropped.
As much as we may not like it SB has made him captain and will stick with him.
Right now he's going to limit the number of moving parts in this team in order to try and nail down some basics.
As much as it pains me to say this again but Farrell has been selected by every coach he's worked with and is obviously valued for what he brings to the team.

If Farrell is nailed on until the day he retires, then it's tough titty for England.

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:51 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:49 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:19 pm Farrell isnt going to be dropped.
As much as we may not like it SB has made him captain and will stick with him.
Right now he's going to limit the number of moving parts

Yesterday his head, in 2 weeks his arms bandaged together. Come the Ireland game the crowd will rise to greet King Tutankhamun

tut tut

as long as he doesn't continue to make an asp of himself...

p/d wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:55 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:51 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:49 pm

Yesterday his head, in 2 weeks his arms bandaged together. Come the Ireland game the crowd will rise to greet King Tutankhamun

tut tut

as long as he doesn't continue to make an asp of himself...

whether he does or doesn't he will always be a right Djoser

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:54 pm

Spiffy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:30 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:19 pm Farrell isnt going to be dropped.
As much as we may not like it SB has made him captain and will stick with him.
Right now he's going to limit the number of moving parts in this team in order to try and nail down some basics.
As much as it pains me to say this again but Farrell has been selected by every coach he's worked with and is obviously valued for what he brings to the team.

If Farrell is nailed on until the day he retires, then it's tough titty for England.

He isnt. But i dont expect SB to make a major change this 6N.

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:36 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:30 pm

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:43 am

50% is the pass mark, yeah?

I to agree with the first half of that.

yes, Ford is the answer if fit and playing well. Faz at 12 is not, no matter how much the mods want him there.

Puja wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:16 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:36 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:30 pm

I to agree with the first half of that.

yes, Ford is the answer if fit and playing well. Faz at 12 is not, no matter how much the mods want him there.

Want is a strong word. If we're allowed to put out an XV without him, then obviously let's do that. Since we are apparently contractually obligated to play him every single minute of every single game, let's put him where he'll do the least damage - at 12 with Ford, or grudgingly at 10 if Ford's not available.

Puja

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:51 pm

p/d wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:49 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:19 pm Farrell isnt going to be dropped.
As much as we may not like it SB has made him captain and will stick with him.
Right now he's going to limit the number of moving parts

Yesterday his head, in 2 weeks his arms bandaged together. Come the Ireland game the crowd will rise to greet King Tutankhamun

tut tut

as long as he doesn't continue to make an asp of himself...

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:59 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:54 pm

Spiffy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:30 pm

If Farrell is nailed on until the day he retires, then it's tough titty for England.

He isnt. But i dont expect SB to make a major change this 6N.

He's made a lot of major changes elsewhere.....its genuinely daft that this level of performance is tolerated, and has been for ages.

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:52 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:59 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:54 pm

He isnt. But i dont expect SB to make a major change this 6N.

He's made a lot of major changes elsewhere.....its genuinely daft that this level of performance is tolerated, and has been for ages.

It is but plainly SB thinks he's worth keeping on.
I've come to the view that there is something that i'm not seeing in Farrell that his coaches, team mates and loads of people in the game - some highly respected - do. I admit defeat. They know better. He simply has to be a net positive effect on the team and squad otherwise he would have been binned ages ago.
Now it might be that his time is coming to an end.
We can only hope.
But for now, he isnt going anywhere.

switchskier wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:36 pm

fivepointer wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:52 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:59 pm
He's made a lot of major changes elsewhere.....its genuinely daft that this level of performance is tolerated, and has been for ages.

It is but plainly SB thinks he's worth keeping on.
I've come to the view that there is something that i'm not seeing in Farrell that his coaches, team mates and loads of people in the game - some highly respected - do. I admit defeat. They know better. He simply has to be a net positive effect on the team and squad otherwise he would have been binned ages ago.
Now it might be that his time is coming to an end.
We can only hope.
But for now, he isnt going anywhere.

If you look at it that way he could be the starter until he's 40. He's not exactly got blinding pace to lose and his skills and footwork have never been his selling point.

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:44 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 4:08 pm

Spiffy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 3:41 pm The bottom line of all of these endless discussions on chips, grubbers, box kicks, handling, running, game plan etc....... Will Borthwick EVER have the balls to drop Farrell from the 23. If ever a single person were holding back an entire team from reaching its potential, he's yer man.
Everyone can see it except the coach.
It actually does not matter that much at present who would replace him. It's the more urgent process of just trimming off the bad bits.

He is the old handbrake for the attack but I've little faith in Smith either after his 20 appearances so far. The options outside of those two are either younger than Marcus or just players repeatedly overlooked for international selection previously for obvious reasons.

England haven't exactly produced a glut of flyhalfs previously. Basically we're stuck with the two we have unless Ford demonstrates he's full fit at the weekend.

But its worse than handbraking the attack, though that's bad enough. He's a defensive liability even at 10, his goal kicking is average to below average these days, Slade has even taken over kicking to the left touchline (counter intuitive that). I mean....what does he bring- a strong northern accent and a belligerent ref annoying field presence??

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 9:15 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:44 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 4:08 pm

He is the old handbrake for the attack but I've little faith in Smith either after his 20 appearances so far. The options outside of those two are either younger than Marcus or just players repeatedly overlooked for international selection previously for obvious reasons.

England haven't exactly produced a glut of flyhalfs previously. Basically we're stuck with the two we have unless Ford demonstrates he's full fit at the weekend.

But its worse than handbraking the attack, though that's bad enough. He's a defensive liability even at 10, his goal kicking is average to below average these days, Slade has even taken over kicking to the left touchline (counter intuitive that). I mean....what does he bring- a strong northern accent and a belligerent ref annoying field presence??

Marcus Smith's kicking to touch was woeful Vs Scotland if Smith's at 10 and Slade's at 13 then we'll be using Slade's big left boot to kick to touch again.

Where was Farrell's defensive liabilities on the weekend? Or at Sarries who regularly have an excellent defence? At 12 he's impatient and without the cool head of Joseph or raw stopping power of Manu that's an issue.

I'm happy with neither option.