RugbyRebels

Rumours Feyi-Waboso has chosen England. Not sure how I feel about that if I’m honest.

I like him as a player, but it feels like he’s turning his back on his home nation, and it’s unclear that he’ll be a mainstay of the English side. He might be - he’s a good prospect - but he’s no Rees-Zammit IMO.

Obviously it’s his call and I’m happy that someone talented can be brought into the squad, but it doesn’t sit perfectly

I tend to agree.

I feel very conflicted here … I'm strongly opposed to poaching. However, when we are very often on the receiving end of this, a little occasional payback seems sort of fair … I emphasise the 'sort of' as I believe he should be playing for Wales.

That said, a lot of his ‘rugby education’ has been in England.

I suppose the piece that makes me ponder is that he’s being mega-hyped for doing less than what Murley has been doing over the last couple of seasons (similar qualities too). I’m using Murley as the an example on the basis of his consistency, but you could also use Radwan. But for the England/Wales tug of war, I’m not sure he’d be more than a candidate for the A squad.

Payback? I get your point that lots of players go through the English systems and then play elsewhere, but money brings lots of players qualified for other nations to England in the first place so it all evens out.

I'm gutted for Murley that his injury has come at just the wrong time after being so good for so long. I'm not sure how serious it is but he'll need to come back with a bang to get in the 6 nations squad.

He chose to play for england for personal reasons (his post rugby career/cardiff uni rejected him), there was zero "poaching" from england. I don't get the hand wringing to be honest.

Thorley has to be worth another look imo

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 11:20 am Thorley has to be worth another look imo

Another?

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 11:32 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 11:20 am Thorley has to be worth another look imo

Another?

yep...1 cap v Italy. Mind, hadn't realised he was 27 already. Great energy tho

Yep, he seems to be playing well. Muir kind of reminds me of him, but Thorley might have that bit more strength/speed to be able to stand out at test level? Still, he's 27 already too. We seem to have a lot of wingers hanging around who have looked incredibly promising at times but never seemed to demand a spot.

With so many changes likely elsewhere in the team it wouldn't surprise me to see Borthwick cling on to Daly and Watson if he can, rather than picking between Thorley, Radwan, Muir, Cokanasiga, Roebuck or that Northampton fella.

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 11:45 am yep...1 cap v Italy. Mind, hadn't realised he was 27 already. Great energy tho

That's what I was meaning - from memory, he's had 1 bench appearance, and not really any other "time in camp" - which doesn't really constitute a proper look, more of a Hail Mary throw them in and see if they surprise you.

Either way - semantics.

I'd look at Thorley internationally ahead of Muir

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 11:56 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 11:45 am yep...1 cap v Italy. Mind, hadn't realised he was 27 already. Great energy tho

That's what I was meaning - from memory, he's had 1 bench appearance, and not really any other "time in camp" - which doesn't really constitute a proper look, more of a Hail Mary throw them in and see if they surprise you.

Either way - semantics.

I'd look at Thorley internationally ahead of Muir

from memory he was in a fair few eddie look and see squads, but then got injured and disappeared. I'd definitely be looking at him, Freeman somewhere, and Radwan.

edit- at least two EPS squads, 2019 and 2020 6N..Covid got in the way a bit as well.

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:08 pm from memory he was in a fair few eddie look and see squads, but then got injured and disappeared. I'd definitely be looking at him, Freeman somewhere, and Radwan.

edit- at least two EPS squads, 2019 and 2020 6N..Covid got in the way a bit as well.

I sit corrected

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 3:44 pm

Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:08 pm from memory he was in a fair few eddie look and see squads, but then got injured and disappeared. I'd definitely be looking at him, Freeman somewhere, and Radwan.

edit- at least two EPS squads, 2019 and 2020 6N..Covid got in the way a bit as well.

I sit corrected

same principle though, he's not been 'looked at' for 4 years, which is a pity.

Planetrugby reckon FSmith has turned Scotland down to aim for England recognition. Good news that!

Puja

Fin Smith being available would be very good news. Particularly as it looks like he'll be in the 23 what with Ford struggling through injury and Farrell not available.

Excellent news all round it seems. Let's hope Dingwall makes the transition to international level and this 6 nations becomes exciting.

If we're going with Mitchel and Dingwall, then I'd start Finn, with Marcus on the bench (or 15?)

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 8:42 pm If we're going with Mitchel and Dingwall, then I'd start Finn, with Marcus on the bench (or 15?)

I'd go with that. Marcus in the 22 shirt is a good impact option at either 10 or 15 as the secondary playmaker. Dingwall at 12 allows Lawrence to play 13. If Dingwall doesn't work out we can always revert to Lawrence and Slade in the centres.

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 9:28 pm

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 8:42 pm If we're going with Mitchel and Dingwall, then I'd start Finn, with Marcus on the bench (or 15?)

I'd go with that. Marcus in the 22 shirt is a good impact option at either 10 or 15 as the secondary playmaker. Dingwall at 12 allows Lawrence to play 13. If Dingwall doesn't work out we can always revert to Lawrence and Slade in the centres.

If you're playing Mitchell, FSmith, and Dingwall, why wouldn't you go for Freeman at 13?

Puja

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 10:32 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 9:28 pm

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 8:42 pm If we're going with Mitchel and Dingwall, then I'd start Finn, with Marcus on the bench (or 15?)

I'd go with that. Marcus in the 22 shirt is a good impact option at either 10 or 15 as the secondary playmaker. Dingwall at 12 allows Lawrence to play 13. If Dingwall doesn't work out we can always revert to Lawrence and Slade in the centres.

If you're playing Mitchell, FSmith, and Dingwall, why wouldn't you go for Freeman at 13?

Puja

Because Lawrence has been playing very well and there's two wing spots with no obvious selection and he can fill one of those. Plus that gives us two fullbacks in the backfield which will help with the inevitable 6N kicking game when the weather is bad but not hurt our attack.

9. Mitchell
10. F Smith
11. Roebuck/Radwan (Murley is injured iirc)
12. Dingwall
13. Lawrence
14. Freeman
15. Steward

21. Warr/JVP(if he's back this weekend)? 22. M Smith, 23. Daly/Slade?

Not sure who's filling the wing spot, replacement 9 or the 23 shirt currently. I wouldn't be surprised if Borthwick went with Daly on the wing or in the 23 shirt to add some experience to what is looking a pretty inexperienced backline. Otherwise your most experienced player at international level is 23 year old Freddie Steward. It's a shame Watson has continued to be a sick note because of he was in form he could have been a good option for both experience and as a good all round international winger.

FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 9:54 amBecause Lawrence has been playing very well and there's two wing spots with no obvious selection and he can fill one of those. Plus that gives us two fullbacks in the backfield which will help with the inevitable 6N kicking game when the weather is bad but not hurt our attack.

I see we've lost the "like" button as the board has come back to speed. If that's the price we pay for a usable forum (along with coffees) it's one I'm willing to pay.

So have a +1 from me (and not a Haskell Like, for the sake of pity on the server)

FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 9:54 am

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 10:32 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 9:28 pm

I'd go with that. Marcus in the 22 shirt is a good impact option at either 10 or 15 as the secondary playmaker. Dingwall at 12 allows Lawrence to play 13. If Dingwall doesn't work out we can always revert to Lawrence and Slade in the centres.

If you're playing Mitchell, FSmith, and Dingwall, why wouldn't you go for Freeman at 13?

Puja

Because Lawrence has been playing very well and there's two wing spots with no obvious selection and he can fill one of those. Plus that gives us two fullbacks in the backfield which will help with the inevitable 6N kicking game when the weather is bad but not hurt our attack.

9. Mitchell
10. F Smith
11. Roebuck/Radwan (Murley is injured iirc)
12. Dingwall
13. Lawrence
14. Freeman
15. Steward

21. Warr/JVP(if he's back this weekend)? 22. M Smith, 23. Daly/Slade?

Not sure who's filling the wing spot, replacement 9 or the 23 shirt currently. I wouldn't be surprised if Borthwick went with Daly on the wing or in the 23 shirt to add some experience to what is looking a pretty inexperienced backline. Otherwise your most experienced player at international level is 23 year old Freddie Steward. It's a shame Watson has continued to be a sick note because of he was in form he could have been a good option for both experience and as a good all round international winger.

Fair point on the lack of wingers. I was focussed just on getting our centre combination nailed down (and while Lawrence has been good, he's also still far too poor at keeping hold of possession - to me, his other attacking qualities don't outweigh both that and the allure of a club combo in the centres), rather than thinking about our lack of options on the wings.

I'm not especially keen on having Daly back, as he's hardly been impressive for Saracens so far this season (I may be holding a grudge about him being absolutely useless for me in fantasy rugby), but there's not really been a standout in the Premiership apart from Feyi-Waboso. Furbank has been excellent at full-back, but neither he nor Steward are international wingers. I reckon Stale Boulangerie is going to pick Cokanasiga again - there's always the dream that this time will be the time he comes back to 2018-19 form and fulfills his potential - and in fairness he has looked pretty good.

Puja

FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 9:54 am Because Lawrence has been playing very well and there's two wing spots with no obvious selection and he can fill one of those. Plus that gives us two fullbacks in the backfield which will help with the inevitable 6N kicking game when the weather is bad but not hurt our attack.

Totally agree with this

Regarding the line up though...
9. Mitchell - has a chance to make the shirt his own
10. One of the Smiths
11.
12.
13.
14. Freeman - wing is a weak spot, he's an excellent player, who can also cover at FB
15. Steward - maybe not pulling up trees right now, but having someone that steady is not to be sniffed at

So to the gaps...

The other wing...I think we have a few options, though few of them are must picks. Arundell would have a shout, but he's not available. THen you could make a case for any of:
- Cokanasiga - started the season well, but history isn't that flattering
- Roebuck - really solid, strong winger. Like him a lot
- Feyi-Waboso (if he's picked us) - arguably has the most exciting all round wide game. I'd be inclined to give him a shot
- Murley - unlucky with injuries
- Radwan - not sure why he hasn't had more chances

As for the centres...

12. Dingwall
12 or 13. Lawrence
13. Slade

I'd go for:

9. Mitchell
10. M. Smith
11. Feyi-Waboso
12. Lawrence
13. Slade
14. Freeman
15. Steward

Mako has retired from Intl duty. Great servant despite critics of his scrummaging. Great career.

FKAS wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 9:54 am

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 10:32 pm

FKAS wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 9:28 pm

I'd go with that. Marcus in the 22 shirt is a good impact option at either 10 or 15 as the secondary playmaker. Dingwall at 12 allows Lawrence to play 13. If Dingwall doesn't work out we can always revert to Lawrence and Slade in the centres.

If you're playing Mitchell, FSmith, and Dingwall, why wouldn't you go for Freeman at 13?

Puja

Because Lawrence has been playing very well and there's two wing spots with no obvious selection and he can fill one of those. Plus that gives us two fullbacks in the backfield which will help with the inevitable 6N kicking game when the weather is bad but not hurt our attack.

9. Mitchell
10. F Smith
11. Roebuck/Radwan (Murley is injured iirc)
12. Dingwall
13. Lawrence
14. Freeman
15. Steward

21. Warr/JVP(if he's back this weekend)? 22. M Smith, 23. Daly/Slade?

Not sure who's filling the wing spot, replacement 9 or the 23 shirt currently. I wouldn't be surprised if Borthwick went with Daly on the wing or in the 23 shirt to add some experience to what is looking a pretty inexperienced backline. Otherwise your most experienced player at international level is 23 year old Freddie Steward. It's a shame Watson has continued to be a sick note because of he was in form he could have been a good option for both experience and as a good all round international winger.

I wouldn't be averse to Thorley on the left- he adds a ton of energy and looks for work intelligently. But yes.

Banquo wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 5:19 pm Mako has retired from Intl duty. Great servant despite critics of his scrummaging. Great career.

Yup, had some great moments. Another one to have looked 50 since he was 21.