Trump

[rowan]

It's a fact of life that America has such an overwhelming influence over the rest of Western society that its problems and issues transcend all borders. & while I fully understand, and applaud, international demonstrations over the election of a sexist, racist Islamophobe, I just wonder where all the protestors were when Obama and Clinton were bombing Middle Eastern countries to rubble.

Don't forget Bush cupcake. There were massive demonstrations across the country in 2003, as there were across the world. Also, there was some nasty shit going down after Obama was elected in 2008. Like torching churches bad shit.

I know you have a hard on for the Clintons, but jesus wept.

Yes, I'm well aware of the anti-Iraq invasion demonstrations because I participated in one myself in Barcelona. But things went quiet during Obama's reign of terror, even though the Nobel Peace Prize-winner was actually at war every single day of his eight year presidency and last year alone dropped bombs at the rate of three per hour . . .

[morepork]

The press never picked it up and ran with it. There has been quite stiff opposition to the drone program, even from within government, but the 4th estate has dropped a bollock. The government hasn't even pretended to engage the public in forming foreign policy. Hence the election of the orange cock womble and his merry crew of failed businesspeople.

[Vengeful Glutton]

It's a fact of life that America has such an overwhelming influence over the rest of Western society that its problems and issues transcend all borders. & while I fully understand, and applaud, international demonstrations over the election of a sexist, racist Islamophobe, I just wonder where all the protestors were when Obama and Clinton were bombing Middle Eastern countries to rubble.

Sat at home, cheering them on?

Yup, seems women of the light brown, Muslim variety don't really strike a chord with feminists in the West - nor anyone else, for that matter...

Did they complain about the KSA funding Hillary Clinton's campaign?

There's something strange happening in the west. Leftism has transformed from being a socialist movement that sought equal rights for the lower classes to a dolly mixture of wastrels with nothing better to do then project their own inferiority complexes on the rest of us.

Leftism is no longer an ideology. It's a psychology!

[Vengeful Glutton]

It's a fact of life that America has such an overwhelming influence over the rest of Western society that its problems and issues transcend all borders. & while I fully understand, and applaud, international demonstrations over the election of a sexist, racist Islamophobe, I just wonder where all the protestors were when Obama and Clinton were bombing Middle Eastern countries to rubble.

Don't forget Bush cupcake. There were massive demonstrations across the country in 2003, as there were across the world. Also, there was some nasty shit going down after Obama was elected in 2008. Like torching churches bad shit.

I know you have a hard on for the Clintons, but jesus wept.

Yes, I'm well aware of the anti-Iraq invasion demonstrations because I participated in one myself in Barcelona. But things went quiet during Obama's reign of terror, even though the Nobel Peace Prize-winner was actually at war every single day of his eight year presidency and last year alone dropped bombs at the rate of three per hour . . .

One of his first public addresses soothed MIC's headaches, when he stated they their funds would not be cut. In fact, they were increased (particularly funding of drone programs e.g. Global Hawk, which is a steamin' pile of dog doo doo).

[WaspInWales]

1.5m people at the inauguration according to Trump.

'Nasty media, fake news, boo fucking hoo'

Was anyone here at the event? Can you shed any light on this please?

Is the orange cunt right or is the media correct?

[WaspInWales]

Here with have the most powerful and influential person in world politics. Someone who will decide the fate of quite possibly billions of people around the planet and his most pressing issue is his opinion of himself.

As much as I was looking forward to the cockwomble getting voted in and having to deal with politicians from around the world far smarter than he is, or will ever be, I'm now finally beginning to see that this man's ego is a ticking time bomb. Unless the world's media, and everyone else, constantly tells him how great he is, he is far more concerned about how he is perceived than anything else. Life or death, all that matters is what do people think of me???

Mirror, mirror on the wall...I'm the greatest of them all.

His cabinet composition is a worry in itself, but his supporters are still lapping it up, even if it means their future generations are going to be fucked over by this greedy, self-absorbed, needy cunt.

[rowan]

Sat at home, cheering them on?

Yup, seems women of the light brown, Muslim variety don't really strike a chord with feminists in the West - nor anyone else, for that matter...

Did they complain about the KSA funding Hillary Clinton's campaign?

There's something strange happening in the west. Leftism has transformed from being a socialist movement that sought equal rights for the lower classes to a dolly mixture of wastrels with nothing better to do then project their own inferiority complexes on the rest of us.

Leftism is no longer an ideology. It's a psychology!

Exactly why the anti-war protests dried up while Obama was in power. It was the Dems doing all the bombing, and Republicans aren't exacly known for their anti-war sentiments...

[WaspInWales]

1.5m people at the inauguration according to Trump.

'Nasty media, fake news, boo fucking hoo'

Was anyone here at the event? Can you shed any light on this please?

Is the orange cunt right or is the media correct?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... trics-don/

Who will you believe? A Pulitzer-winning organisation or a known lying bigot and his toady, paid to shout that his master is The Warrior of the Wasteland, the Ayatollah of Rock and Rollah?

I just wondered if anyone from here was there or followed the event live? I followed bits but mostly on the Beeb app so didn't really get the chance to see live videos.

I've seen the comparison photos, but they don't prove much as they don't state the time the photos were taken in regards to the taking oath and speech. Plus there's a couple of photos from the Trump circus that seem to discredit the comparison photos:




Both seem to show vastly more numbers than shown in other pics.

[morepork]

Sat at home, cheering them on?

Yup, seems women of the light brown, Muslim variety don't really strike a chord with feminists in the West - nor anyone else, for that matter...

Did they complain about the KSA funding Hillary Clinton's campaign?

There's something strange happening in the west. Leftism has transformed from being a socialist movement that sought equal rights for the lower classes to a dolly mixture of wastrels with nothing better to do then project their own inferiority complexes on the rest of us.

Leftism is no longer an ideology. It's a psychology!

I wouldn't get too hung up on a left right thing. That is not the issue here. There is no true "left" in western politics. All parties scrap for the illusion of centrist whilst sucking resources from the public for the benefit of a select few. People are tired of of trickle up economics, and tired of shouldering the blame for the actions of corporates operating via their puppet politicians. This is the reason idiots like Trump, Farrage et.al. are getting traction at th moment, and they are idiots. A few carefully crafted PR directives, and presto! instant angry mob.

[OptimisticJock]

It eventually ran out of credibility, clearly. British Labour Party politician Robin Cook was among the many to dismiss them (shortly before his sudden death). The US had already played that card far too many times. So they rebranded it as 'ISIS,' but it's exactly the same thing - their own proxy mercenaries and jihadists, who they, the Saudis and others armed and trained, and who can conveniently be blamed for every act of resistance to their imperial expansionism.

[Len]

One thing I find interesting is this environmental poilcy hes ditched. The White House websites states it will save 30 billion, which is fine except where does that 30 billion go? Into the pockets of Americans working in jobs in the sector? From scientists right dow to the janitor cleaning the offices and labs? I wonder if anybody will lose their jobs, which is exactly the opposite to what his campaign is all about.

I'm not pretending to know everything about politics, I'm a bit too boan for that, its just something that occured to me the other day.

[jared_7]

1.5m people at the inauguration according to Trump.

'Nasty media, fake news, boo fucking hoo'

Was anyone here at the event? Can you shed any light on this please?

Is the orange cunt right or is the media correct?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... trics-don/

Who will you believe? A Pulitzer-winning organisation or a known lying bigot and his toady, paid to shout that his master is The Warrior of the Wasteland, the Ayatollah of Rock and Rollah?

I just wondered if anyone from here was there or followed the event live? I followed bits but mostly on the Beeb app so didn't really get the chance to see live videos.

I've seen the comparison photos, but they don't prove much as they don't state the time the photos were taken in regards to the taking oath and speech. Plus there's a couple of photos from the Trump circus that seem to discredit the comparison photos:




Both seem to show vastly more numbers than shown in other pics.

There was definitely unfair comparisons going on; I started seeing the first comparison shots popping up Friday morning, a good 7-8 hours before the actual event, and that one still seems to be prominently circulating so I don't know whats going on there.

However, the Washington Transport department numbers of people using the subway, as well as estimates from most federal agencies (700-900k) put it well below what Obama got in 2009 and below what he got in 2013 as well.

[jared_7]

The comparisons are all very stupid anyway. Washington voted 90% for Clinton, and are consistently over 80% for the Dems in most elections. Host the inauguration in Alabama and see how the numbers would compare.

Its this sort of stuff which is all a bit distracting, I'd much rather the US press focus on the things Trump did in his first day of office than spend what felt like hours and hours of CNN debating visitor numbers. Its all part of the sideshow that got Trump to where he is. The American people are clueless as to the actual actions of their government in many cases.

[Len]

The comparisons are all very stupid anyway. Washington voted 90% for Clinton, and are consistently over 80% for the Dems in most elections. Host the inauguration in Alabama and see how the numbers would compare.

Its this sort of stuff which is all a bit distracting, I'd much rather the US press focus on the things Trump did in his first day of office than spend what felt like hours and hours of CNN debating visitor numbers. Its all part of the sideshow that got Trump to where he is. The American people are clueless as to the actual actions of their government in many cases.

Democratic countries get the leaders and governments deserve - Some bloke

[WaspInWales]

It eventually ran out of credibility, clearly. British Labour Party politician Robin Cook was among the many to dismiss them (shortly before his sudden death). The US had already played that card far too many times. So they rebranded it as 'ISIS,' but it's exactly the same thing - their own proxy mercenaries and jihadists, who they, the Saudis and others armed and trained, and who can conveniently be blamed for every act of resistance to their imperial expansionism.

Did Robin Cook really say that?

Also, are you suggesting his death was suspicious? A 59 year old man suffering a heart attack whilst hill walking is not exactly a stretch is it?

[morepork]

One thing I find interesting is this environmental poilcy hes ditched. The White House websites states it will save 30 billion, which is fine except where does that 30 billion go? Into the pockets of Americans working in jobs in the sector? From scientists right dow to the janitor cleaning the offices and labs? I wonder if anybody will lose their jobs, which is exactly the opposite to what his campaign is all about.

I'm not pretending to know everything about politics, I'm a bit too boan for that, its just something that occured to me the other day.

He's full of shit. His MO is to fiddle the books to create debt and pass that debt off to others. BY creating a smokescreen of environmental policy being a crack pot side show he will do as all politicians do and discredit science as a pastime of liberal academics that don't understand "business" and cut infrastructure spending with impunity. Just look at what is happening in NZ with dairying. It's a massive environmental disaster but the government won't hold agriculture accountable because they are lobbied hard. Any actual investment made is invariably PR and misinformation, which is just pissing resources up against the wall. The sensible thing to do would be to marry environmental science with agriculture and support a sustainable long term enterprise that benefits all. If he slashes federal funding for environmental science then yes, people will lose jobs and ultimately the agriculture sector will start to burn out through mismanagement. The toxins will osmiate through to education and hit employment hard as employers are forced to lobby for overseas skills to replace locals. Oh the irony.

[rowan]

It eventually ran out of credibility, clearly. British Labour Party politician Robin Cook was among the many to dismiss them (shortly before his sudden death). The US had already played that card far too many times. So they rebranded it as 'ISIS,' but it's exactly the same thing - their own proxy mercenaries and jihadists, who they, the Saudis and others armed and trained, and who can conveniently be blamed for every act of resistance to their imperial expansionism.

Did Robin Cook really say that?

Also, are you suggesting his death was suspicious? A 59 year old man suffering a heart attack whilst hill walking is not exactly a stretch is it?

Not as suspicious as poor David Kelly's, that's for sure. Whether he said this or not, I'm pretty certain he did at some stage, because it's also been quote in various articles I've read.

Meanwhile, I'm developing a much greater respect for the anti-Trump feminists movement. While I wouldn't trust too much of what's being reported in the media right now, it has been estimated it's become the biggest rally in American history, approaching 3 million nationwide. After all, women are 50% of the population and he basically just insulted them on the way into office. Of course they ought to be making a stand on that and so should the rest of us; at the very least by showing our support.

[Digby]

Cook did not say that, which doesn't seem surprising, that some people read shite articles doesn't seem surprising either.

[WaspInWales]

It eventually ran out of credibility, clearly. British Labour Party politician Robin Cook was among the many to dismiss them (shortly before his sudden death). The US had already played that card far too many times. So they rebranded it as 'ISIS,' but it's exactly the same thing - their own proxy mercenaries and jihadists, who they, the Saudis and others armed and trained, and who can conveniently be blamed for every act of resistance to their imperial expansionism.

Did Robin Cook really say that?

Also, are you suggesting his death was suspicious? A 59 year old man suffering a heart attack whilst hill walking is not exactly a stretch is it?

Not as suspicious as poor David Kelly's, that's for sure. Whether he said this or not, I'm pretty certain he did at some stage, because it's also been quote in various articles I've read.

Meanwhile, I'm developing a much greater respect for the anti-Trump feminists movement. While I wouldn't trust too much of what's being reported in the media right now, it has been estimated it's become the biggest rally in American history, approaching 3 million nationwide. After all, women are 50% of the population and he basically just insulted them on the way into office. Of course they ought to be making a stand on that and so should the rest of us; at the very least by showing our support.

I'm almost certain he didn't say it, Pierre-Henre Bunel did, but many people are eager to pass it on as a Robin Cook quote.

I believe Cook commented in the commons that

Al-Qaeda is not really a terrorist group but a database of international mujaheddin and arms smugglers used by the CIA and Saudis to funnel guerrillas, arms, and money into Soviet-occupied Afghanistan

.

Quite a contrast between the comments.

[rowan]

My personal view is that these names, both Al Qaeda and ISIS, are not used by the terrorists themselves and are just blanket terms invented by the CIA or Western media or whoever, to give a face to anyone (notably Jihadists, of course) carrying out attacks against Westerners and also Western interests - imperialist or otherwise. As they say, when the rebels are on our side, they're heroic freedom fighters, but when they're against us, they're Al Qaeda or ISIS. Instant demonization by association with terrorism - even when their cause is entirely just.

[Digby]

There are problems beyond the quote being attributed in error to Cook, mainly that it seems to suppose that a freedom fighting group, a terrorist group, a Jihad or whatever, and in this case called Al-Qaeda, remains a fixed thing, and doesn't seem to allow that as with any group it may mutate and splinter into new forms/groups.

[jared_7]

One thing I find interesting is this environmental poilcy hes ditched. The White House websites states it will save 30 billion, which is fine except where does that 30 billion go? Into the pockets of Americans working in jobs in the sector? From scientists right dow to the janitor cleaning the offices and labs? I wonder if anybody will lose their jobs, which is exactly the opposite to what his campaign is all about.

I'm not pretending to know everything about politics, I'm a bit too boan for that, its just something that occured to me the other day.

He's full of shit. His MO is to fiddle the books to create debt and pass that debt off to others. BY creating a smokescreen of environmental policy being a crack pot side show he will do as all politicians do and discredit science as a pastime of liberal academics that don't understand "business" and cut infrastructure spending with impunity. Just look at what is happening in NZ with dairying. It's a massive environmental disaster but the government won't hold agriculture accountable because they are lobbied hard. Any actual investment made is invariably PR and misinformation, which is just pissing resources up against the wall. The sensible thing to do would be to marry environmental science with agriculture and support a sustainable long term enterprise that benefits all. If he slashes federal funding for environmental science then yes, people will lose jobs and ultimately the agriculture sector will start to burn out through mismanagement. The toxins will osmiate through to education and hit employment hard as employers are forced to lobby for overseas skills to replace locals. Oh the irony.

Did you see the reaction of the Federated farmers when Gareth Morgan and the TOP party suggested levies on farmers who exceed environmental limits? Even the Green Party opposed it, absolutely mental.

[Digby]

My personal view is that these names, both Al Qaeda and ISIS, are not used by the terrorists themselves and are just blanket terms invented by the CIA or Western media or whoever, to give a face to anyone (notably Jihadists, of course) carrying out attacks against Westerners and also Western interests - imperialist or otherwise. As they say, when the rebels are on our side, they're heroic freedom fighters, but when they're against us, they're Al Qaeda or ISIS. Instant demonization by association with terrorism - even when their cause is entirely just.

Whether they call themselves the same thing as we call them doesn't seem important, it's more like Germany Vs Deutschland, either way they exist, and either way calling their cause entirely just is bonkers, and still worse would be to suggest their actions are just whether from murder, destruction of such as Palmyra, subjugation of people that want nothing to do with them, theft... you were on safer ground falsely attributing quotes than the drivel above

[rowan]

My personal view is that these names, both Al Qaeda and ISIS, are not used by the terrorists themselves and are just blanket terms invented by the CIA or Western media or whoever, to give a face to anyone (notably Jihadists, of course) carrying out attacks against Westerners and also Western interests - imperialist or otherwise. As they say, when the rebels are on our side, they're heroic freedom fighters, but when they're against us, they're Al Qaeda or ISIS. Instant demonization by association with terrorism - even when their cause is entirely just.

Whether they call themselves the same thing as we call them doesn't seem important, it's more like Germany Vs Deutschland, either way they exist, and either way calling their cause entirely just is bonkers, and still worse would be to suggest their actions are just whether from murder, destruction of such as Palmyra, subjugation of people that want nothing to do with them, theft... you were on safer ground falsely attributing quotes than the drivel above

You completely missed the point there, I'm afraid, because you too are lumping anyone fighting against Western imperialism together - which is ridiculous. The rebels fighting against other Western-backed rebels (and terrorists) in Iraq, Libya and Syria (such as the Kurdish YPG) are clearly not terrorists and do have a just cause. But the Turks have decided they are terrorists and has bombed them accordingly. America does the same thing when it meets legitimate resistance in the various nations it has occupied, calls them Al Qaeda or ISIS, and bombs them. & the Germany-Deutschland analogy is what is really bonkers here, because you're talking about a sovereign nation - whereas the Western terms Al Qaeda and ISIS are applied to a wide range of entirely disconnected combatants, ranging from Jihadist maniacs to courageous resistance fighters against Western imperialism and its terrorist proxies.

[morepork]

One thing I find interesting is this environmental poilcy hes ditched. The White House websites states it will save 30 billion, which is fine except where does that 30 billion go? Into the pockets of Americans working in jobs in the sector? From scientists right dow to the janitor cleaning the offices and labs? I wonder if anybody will lose their jobs, which is exactly the opposite to what his campaign is all about.

I'm not pretending to know everything about politics, I'm a bit too boan for that, its just something that occured to me the other day.

He's full of shit. His MO is to fiddle the books to create debt and pass that debt off to others. BY creating a smokescreen of environmental policy being a crack pot side show he will do as all politicians do and discredit science as a pastime of liberal academics that don't understand "business" and cut infrastructure spending with impunity. Just look at what is happening in NZ with dairying. It's a massive environmental disaster but the government won't hold agriculture accountable because they are lobbied hard. Any actual investment made is invariably PR and misinformation, which is just pissing resources up against the wall. The sensible thing to do would be to marry environmental science with agriculture and support a sustainable long term enterprise that benefits all. If he slashes federal funding for environmental science then yes, people will lose jobs and ultimately the agriculture sector will start to burn out through mismanagement. The toxins will osmiate through to education and hit employment hard as employers are forced to lobby for overseas skills to replace locals. Oh the irony.

Did you see the reaction of the Federated farmers when Gareth Morgan and the TOP party suggested levies on farmers who exceed environmental limits? Even the Green Party opposed it, absolutely mental.

I know. It's insanity.