Jones gone (Now 100% confirmed)

[Mellsblue]

This is hardly revolutionary in the annals of rugby coaching. It's pretty obvious that you can only coach so much, but successful teams have always gone beyond the play-by-numbers approach and left on-field decisions in the hands of play makers. One of the biggest problems of the Jones era was that players seemed reluctant to depart from the rigid game plan and just play what was in front of them, possibly (probably?) from fear of being dropped from not obeying H.M.V.
This was the case with the Ireland team under Joe Schmidt, which was reasonably successful, but played like automatons and lacked the rounded/flexible game we have seen under Farrell since his departure.

Yep, exactly why I posted the quotes.

Where did those quotes come from Mells?

Can’t remember. Banquo might know.

[FKAS]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/new-engl ... k-bruiser/

Jasper talking about the impact of Borthwick.

[Banquo]

It has been devalued with the appointment of a plethora of 'vice captain's'. No problems with naming a captain who is best at communicating with the ref, but the likes of Itoje should not require the armband to galvanise his fellow forwards

Still a vital role imo- we've touched on communicating with the ref, and frankly no-one should need galvanising to play intl rugby, but when the plan isn't working (whether its a framework or a detailed game plan), the skipper should be the key guy in regrouping and reshaping. The best captains do this.

Disagree with this bit. Mindset and psychology are huge factors at the top level of sport. It's not a case of "Well, everyone should already be motivated, shouldn't they?" - the best performances in the sport have come when the team were united, focussed, and geed up beyond just "this is international rugby". The captain's a huge part of that.

I like Oakboy's theory of Itoje for captain. It's a good point that he's got more to give and more space to improve, and giving him that responsibility and trust could be the thing that pushes hin to the next level.

Puja

Happy to disagree- the captains role is in focusing motivation and maybe rallying the troops in tough times in a game. It should be a given that they are motivated frankly, but the captain should be able to spot who may need a word at an individual level, so is a part of it sure.

But thanks for pointing out the importance of motivation I agree it’s important,but I don’t think the captains part of that at intl level is that massive, and frankly I’d expect needing to galvanise folks at that level to be an exception. Mind, that’s just a personal feeling.

[Puja]

But thanks for pointing out the importance of motivation

No charge! I just felt really motivated to do so.

Puja

[FKAS]

Apologies for the source but...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby ... tions.html

[p/d]

brilliant stuff.

and never apologies about the source, it could have been the Guardian

[Oakboy]

I wonder what the clubs are referring to when they say Borthwick needs all the help he can get.

[Banquo]

I wonder what the clubs are referring to when they say Borthwick needs all the help he can get.

Flexibility in selecting his squad. Presume they want a bung from the RFU to vary the EPS agreement.

[fivepointer]

Hopefully the clubs will see that its in their interests to assist the new England coach as much as they can. A successful national side is the single most important thing for the game in this country. That hasnt changed since the game went pro.

[Banquo]

Hopefully the clubs will see that its in their interests to assist the new England coach as much as they can. A successful national side is the single most important thing for the game in this country. That hasnt changed since the game went pro.

This is a triumph of hope over experience, but obviously you are right.

[Oakboy]

Hopefully the clubs will see that its in their interests to assist the new England coach as much as they can. A successful national side is the single most important thing for the game in this country. That hasnt changed since the game went pro.

This is a triumph of hope over experience, but obviously you are right.

Maybe, mutual respect between Borthwick and the clubs will be grounds for optimism?

[Puja]

Hopefully the clubs will see that its in their interests to assist the new England coach as much as they can. A successful national side is the single most important thing for the game in this country. That hasnt changed since the game went pro.

I mean, historically, they have helped the England coach quite a bit with this kind of request, with this very logic. Let's hope they don't lose patience with the idea that we might ever see a successful national side...

Puja

[Banquo]

Hopefully the clubs will see that its in their interests to assist the new England coach as much as they can. A successful national side is the single most important thing for the game in this country. That hasnt changed since the game went pro.

This is a triumph of hope over experience, but obviously you are right.

Maybe, mutual respect between Borthwick and the clubs will be grounds for optimism?

I don't think Jones had many issues at all with the clubs, if that's what you mean? But you'd hope for your sentiment anyway.

[Banquo]

Hopefully the clubs will see that its in their interests to assist the new England coach as much as they can. A successful national side is the single most important thing for the game in this country. That hasnt changed since the game went pro.

I mean, historically, they have helped the England coach quite a bit with this kind of request, with this very logic. Let's hope they don't lose patience with the idea that we might ever see a successful national side...

Puja

I'm not convinced they make the link tbh, and the help is heftily 'oiled'

[Vanq]

Anyone hearing anything on the other assistants? Saw some commentary that they'd so what it takes to get the best - UK or potentially abroad.

Vesty getting some talk in the press. I could see maybe Aled Walters joining at the end of the season as S&C could be done for the new season rather than further disrupt the Tigers.

[Puja]

Anyone hearing anything on the other assistants? Saw some commentary that they'd so what it takes to get the best - UK or potentially abroad.

Vesty getting some talk in the press. I could see maybe Aled Walters joining at the end of the season as S&C could be done for the new season rather than further disrupt the Tigers.

Everyone's sitting here praying for Wayne Smith, right?

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Who is Aled Walters?

[Vanq]

Anyone hearing anything on the other assistants? Saw some commentary that they'd so what it takes to get the best - UK or potentially abroad.

Vesty getting some talk in the press. I could see maybe Aled Walters joining at the end of the season as S&C could be done for the new season rather than further disrupt the Tigers.

Everyone's sitting here praying for Wayne Smith, right?

Puja

The attack could do with some work...

Who is Aled Walters?

The Leicester S&C coach, was SA's for their WC win as well.

[Mellsblue]

Knew it rang a bell.

[twitchy]

SA S&C coach.

[FKAS]

Yeah no. Scarlets, Taranaki, Brumbies, Munster, SA, Tigers. Bloke has been around learning his stuff. He's also apparently a bit of a nutter, turned up for his first day at Tigers with his world cup winner's medal, asked Steve and the England lads if they wanted to get a look at one first hand.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... elentless/

[Puja]

Yeah no. Scarlets, Taranaki, Brumbies, Munster, SA, Tigers. Bloke has been around learning his stuff. He's also apparently a bit of a nutter, turned up for his first day at Tigers with his world cup winner's medal, asked Steve and the England lads if they wanted to get a look at one first hand.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... elentless/

For clarity, Mells is on the windup, as Walter's name has been mentioned a few times in this thread.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Yeah no. Scarlets, Taranaki, Brumbies, Munster, SA, Tigers. Bloke has been around learning his stuff. He's also apparently a bit of a nutter, turned up for his first day at Tigers with his world cup winner's medal, asked Steve and the England lads if they wanted to get a look at one first hand.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... elentless/

For clarity, Mells is on the windup, as Walter's name has been mentioned a few times in this thread.

Puja

How very dare you. I take this forum incredibly seriously and would never make a childish post in the hope of a dopamine rush by eliciting a thumbs up via a poor, often repeated, joke.
As for making a pun, that is the pass-time of the fool.

[Which Tyler]

SA S&C coach.

In fairness, that's the age-grade specialist

[Puja]

Yeah no. Scarlets, Taranaki, Brumbies, Munster, SA, Tigers. Bloke has been around learning his stuff. He's also apparently a bit of a nutter, turned up for his first day at Tigers with his world cup winner's medal, asked Steve and the England lads if they wanted to get a look at one first hand.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... elentless/

For clarity, Mells is on the windup, as Walter's name has been mentioned a few times in this thread.

Puja

How very dare you. I take this forum incredibly seriously and would never make a childish post in the hope of a dopamine rush by eliciting a thumbs up via a poor, often repeated, joke.
As for making a pun, that is the pass-time of the fool.