RugbyRebels

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 8:42 pm If we're going with Mitchel and Dingwall, then I'd start Finn, with Marcus on the bench (or 15?)

Gawd!!!

No SCW punditry this 6n. Best news so far.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... x-nations/



Steve Borthwick was undeniably deliberate in mentioning Ethan Roots during his Twickenham press call on January 4. England’s head coach was asked the open question of who had put their hand up for England selection ahead of the Six Nations. Roots’ name was one of the first to be volunteered. Rob Baxter is just as deliberate about how he configures a back row. Over recent years, his formula has been to deploy a lighter, quicker athlete at the base of the scrum between two bruising boppers offering greater ballast. This approach appears to have survived the great emigration out of Sandy Park, which necessitated a squad revamp.

It is the highest possible compliment to Roots’ performances since arriving in Devon from Ospreys that Exeter have not missed Dave Ewers, a mighty player for Chiefs who started both domestic and Champions Cup finals in 2020 when the Devonians did a special double.

Ewers moved to Ulster last summer. Many believe him unlucky to remain uncapped, despite featuring for England Saxons some seven years ago as part of an eclectic cast list including Maro Itoje, Henry Slade and Sam Burgess. Among the factors that will have counted against Ewers’ international inclusion were the importance of Billy Vunipola and the need to balance a back row around the Saracen, usually by picking a flanker capable of jumping in the line out. Hold that thought.

Roots, still 24 and eligible for England through his Reading-born father, is not quite as destructive as Ewers could be. The latter, at his best, was a gain-line behemoth. That said, Roots is a combative and willing runner. On Saturday against Glasgow Warriors, he ended up with 33 hard-fought metres from 13 carries. At one goal-line drop-out in the first half, Roots sat in the back-field – the sign of a keynote carrier – before attempting to instigate momentum with a full-blooded charge.

Conspicuous thanks to his mullet and Maori tattoos, he is also a resourceful flanker who is busy at the breakdown and jumps at the front of the line out. The international retirement of Courtney Lawes, a remarkably multi-faceted operator, will require England to rebalance the back five of their pack. And here, the emergence of Ben Earl makes things interesting. Because, with delicious irony, Borthwick may take a leaf from the book of Baxter.



Sam Simmonds was another who did not feature in as many Tests as he might have done before leaving Chiefs, with Eddie Jones never seemingly convinced or willing to provide the speedster with complementary infrastructure. For Exeter, Simmonds would almost always have an entourage of four burly colleagues in the back five of Baxter’s pack. Ewers would often be on the blindside while Chiefs used players as hefty as Jannes Kirsten as openside flankers.

Those team-mates covered other bases – namely line out work, clattering rucks and eking out metres in heavy traffic – so that Simmonds could be more effective. These days, with Greg Fisilau and Ross Vintcent as successors to Simmonds, and Roots and the outstanding Jacques Vermeulen as their hefty henchmen, Exeter maintain the same blend. England are going to have to think in similar terms if Earl remains at number eight.

One option, made more likely by Borthwick’s selection history and the value he places on the line out, is leaning on a hybrid lock-blindside. Maro Itoje has done it before. George Martin has spent plenty of time in the back row. Ollie Chessum was explicitly cited by Jones as a potential successor to Lawes. Having those three on the pitch at once, whoever operates as a No 6, obviously makes England particularly strong in certain areas. Yet it is a configuration that would also render the team light on carrying punch in phase-play, especially given that Manu Tuilagi is poised to miss the beginning of the Six Nations and Borthwick will surely need to move on from him anyway. With it, England would probably need to kick as much as they did at the World Cup.



Sam Underhill, Ben Curry and Guy Pepper seem to be viewed as out-and-out opensides. Lewis Ludlam, a wholehearted Mr Fixit at blindside for England in the past, been frustrated by injury. Tom Pearson’s hat-trick for Northampton Saints on Friday night, albeit against a papier-mâché Bayonne, provided a timely reminder of his potential with ball in hand. Phil Dowson, his director of rugby at Franklin’s Gardens, stressed last week that Pearson is improving as a line out jumper, too. That would enhance his worth to Borthwick and give him a shot at blindside as well as the openside role. Pearson told Telegraph Sport that he admires Pieter-Steph du Toit, a man Felix Jones knows well. James Chisholm of Harlequins also fits the profile of a rambunctious blindside. They are not particularly common on these shores, especially with Ted Hill recovering from hamstring surgery.

Roots, like Fisilau, might not have shifted the England dial too far by virtue of his display on Saturday alone. “I think we’ve got a few guys who are in the mix,” said Baxter after the 19-17 win over Glasgow. “Whether today’s performance levels will help [I don’t know]… [but] the result may. Time will tell.”

Matt Fagerson, the abrasive Scotland international at openside for Warriors, was among the most influential individuals on show. He demonstrated real Test class, forcing two tenacious breakdown turnovers and carrying powerfully. But Roots could easily find himself in the England mix, offering scope to rebalance the World Cup pack, on Wednesday. Borthwick would not have mentioned him without seeing serious promise.

Can someone tell Charlie what "Irony" means.

It's like ray-hee-ayyyn on yer wedding day.

Roots always feels one slow motion replay away from a card but on the last four seasons he only has 2 yellow cards to his name. Over the same period Marcus Smith has 3 yellows (albeit from more games). He's a rough diamond but perhaps Borthwick thinks he can polish him up in a similar way to what he did with Jasper Weise, easily the most aggressive player in the league who hasn't picked up a card of any colour or a suspension since December 2021.

twitchy wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 11:16 am It's like ray-hee-ayyyn on yer wedding day.

if there was a like button still this would have got one.

Slightly strange article, beyond the use of the word irony. Though it does sound like Borthwick is interested.

Labelling Roots as capable/willing of becoming a good carrier doesn’t seem immediately useful. Is he actually effective though? Maybe I’m just biased because when it feels like another slightly average import getting an immediate England place.

I could see Pearson being effective as a 6 ( perhaps alongside Underhill) if his form merits. It would still seem like a very small backrow with Earl at 8 though.

He reminds me of Kenningham (also a good lineout jumper incidentally) a lot actually, but he seems to have been far less prominent since making the move to blindside. You’d think virtually any backrow or rugby player around “admires” PSDT, to be honest.

This is the first time James Chisholm has been fit for a few consecutive weeks in quite a long time. I really like him but I’ve got to say I thought that ship had sailed.

I don’t really understand what the mention of Matt Fagerson was getting at. Maybe there were gifs or stats that added some context.

I dont see Roots as being any more than a good Prem level player. He does have a high work rate but doesnt seem to make many key interventions and is prone to error. I much prefer Reid at Bath or Harding at Bristol. Chisholm played very well last night and is a more physical presence while Ted Hill is the obvious successor to Lawes but is frustratingly injured.

Rumours that Sinckler could be joining Toulon with immediate or near immediate effect.

Great news if Sinckler goes. Not played well for some time. If he does 2/3 years in France, regains his form and becomes a World Cup option then great. If not, doesn’t matter.

I'm just not seeing anything in Roots, other than a potential liability. He works damn hard, and I think is a perfect Prem player. I don;t see anything that says he's got international class in his locker. Early days still, but I'm not seeing it really.

I'd say the same for Chisholm if I'm honest. He's playing really well, but I'm not sure there is a level up in him.

I suspect we'll either go with Chessum or Martin there, which would pain me greatly, or we'll play two opensides, which I'd prefer based on what's available. I would also get CCS in the mix, cause although he's raw I think he does have at least another level up in him.

I wouldn't be too upset to see Chessum at 6, assuming we have 4. Itoje 5. Martin, but can't think of a good lock option for the bench and see little point in derailing Chessum's development as a lock. Roots getting in by default would be underwhelming with T Curry, J Willis, T Willis, T Hill, Ludlam all unavailable.

Barbeary at 8 with Dombrandt/Mercer at 6 used a jumper would be a laugh, if anybody could be bothered to clear rucks.

Looks like Arron Reed will be picked in the Scotland squad

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 10:02 am I'm just not seeing anything in Roots, other than a potential liability. He works damn hard, and I think is a perfect Prem player. I don;t see anything that says he's got international class in his locker. Early days still, but I'm not seeing it really.

I'd say the same for Chisholm if I'm honest. He's playing really well, but I'm not sure there is a level up in him.

I suspect we'll either go with Chessum or Martin there, which would pain me greatly, or we'll play two opensides, which I'd prefer based on what's available. I would also get CCS in the mix, cause although he's raw I think he does have at least another level up in him.

I agree with you.

A good few years ago, I did feel like Chis had another level, but then injuries took their toll, and I feel like he's a good prem player now, which is fantastic considering the past 3 seasons.

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 10:02 am I'm just not seeing anything in Roots, other than a potential liability. He works damn hard, and I think is a perfect Prem player. I don;t see anything that says he's got international class in his locker. Early days still, but I'm not seeing it really.

I'd say the same for Chisholm if I'm honest. He's playing really well, but I'm not sure there is a level up in him.

I suspect we'll either go with Chessum or Martin there, which would pain me greatly, or we'll play two opensides, which I'd prefer based on what's available. I would also get CCS in the mix, cause although he's raw I think he does have at least another level up in him.

He's like ewers without the brain, or Shields without the apparent credentials. Like Chisholm, decent prem but not going to be much at intl level

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 8:40 am

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 10:02 am I'm just not seeing anything in Roots, other than a potential liability. He works damn hard, and I think is a perfect Prem player. I don;t see anything that says he's got international class in his locker. Early days still, but I'm not seeing it really.

I'd say the same for Chisholm if I'm honest. He's playing really well, but I'm not sure there is a level up in him.

I suspect we'll either go with Chessum or Martin there, which would pain me greatly, or we'll play two opensides, which I'd prefer based on what's available. I would also get CCS in the mix, cause although he's raw I think he does have at least another level up in him.

He's like ewers without the brain, or Shields without the apparent credentials. Like Chisholm, decent prem but not going to be much at intl level

I suspect you are right which does not say much for SB's judgement if Roots IS picked. Correctly assessing international potential, based on club form, must be one of a HC's most important attributes. Oddly enough, I'd be surprised if SB was that bad at it but I can't justify the comment - hope over expectation, perhaps.

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 8:40 am

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 10:02 am I'm just not seeing anything in Roots, other than a potential liability. He works damn hard, and I think is a perfect Prem player. I don;t see anything that says he's got international class in his locker. Early days still, but I'm not seeing it really.

I'd say the same for Chisholm if I'm honest. He's playing really well, but I'm not sure there is a level up in him.

I suspect we'll either go with Chessum or Martin there, which would pain me greatly, or we'll play two opensides, which I'd prefer based on what's available. I would also get CCS in the mix, cause although he's raw I think he does have at least another level up in him.

He's like ewers without the brain, or Shields without the apparent credentials. Like Chisholm, decent prem but not going to be much at intl level

Agreed. He's only 24, so room to evolve as a player, but I'm not seeing signs of it in his locker as of yet. He might evolve with more game time in the Exeter team, especially with how they look to play, but he's not an international candidate IMO.

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 9:28 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 8:40 am

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 10:02 am I'm just not seeing anything in Roots, other than a potential liability. He works damn hard, and I think is a perfect Prem player. I don;t see anything that says he's got international class in his locker. Early days still, but I'm not seeing it really.

I'd say the same for Chisholm if I'm honest. He's playing really well, but I'm not sure there is a level up in him.

I suspect we'll either go with Chessum or Martin there, which would pain me greatly, or we'll play two opensides, which I'd prefer based on what's available. I would also get CCS in the mix, cause although he's raw I think he does have at least another level up in him.

He's like ewers without the brain, or Shields without the apparent credentials. Like Chisholm, decent prem but not going to be much at intl level

Agreed. He's only 24, so room to evolve as a player, but I'm not seeing signs of it in his locker as of yet. He might evolve with more game time in the Exeter team, especially with how they look to play, but he's not an international candidate IMO.

I just feel like they look at different things to us...

We look to see if the player has the skill levels needed.

But to the top coaches in England nowadays, those skill levels seem to be seen as "trainable", while "intangibles" are more important.

Which is a problem. As it leads to teams who can hammer on doors for 80 minutes, but don't have the wit to try the bloody knob.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 9:19 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 8:40 am

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Mon Jan 15, 2024 10:02 am I'm just not seeing anything in Roots, other than a potential liability. He works damn hard, and I think is a perfect Prem player. I don;t see anything that says he's got international class in his locker. Early days still, but I'm not seeing it really.

I'd say the same for Chisholm if I'm honest. He's playing really well, but I'm not sure there is a level up in him.

I suspect we'll either go with Chessum or Martin there, which would pain me greatly, or we'll play two opensides, which I'd prefer based on what's available. I would also get CCS in the mix, cause although he's raw I think he does have at least another level up in him.

He's like ewers without the brain, or Shields without the apparent credentials. Like Chisholm, decent prem but not going to be much at intl level

I suspect you are right which does not say much for SB's judgement if Roots IS picked. Correctly assessing international potential, based on club form, must be one of a HC's most important attributes. Oddly enough, I'd be surprised if SB was that bad at it but I can't justify the comment - hope over expectation, perhaps.

I'm slightly tickled that your automatic conclusion is that, if Roots is picked, it's not because you've made a mistake in assessing his capabilities, but because the highly paid and experienced professional selector has.

I mean, I do admire your confidence in yourself.

Puja

Isn't that kinda the point of discussion boards?
We discuss our own opinions, whilst not having any pressure whatsoever of standing or falling based on them (excepting the Premiership predictions thread, of course)

I mean what’s the point of this place if we’re not all going to act like we know best?

Well WT already said the same thing but I said it cooler.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 11:16 am Well WT already said the same thing but I said it cooler.

You did, but then you ruined it by claiming to coolness

Stom wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 9:40 am

Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 9:28 am

Banquo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 8:40 am

He's like ewers without the brain, or Shields without the apparent credentials. Like Chisholm, decent prem but not going to be much at intl level

Agreed. He's only 24, so room to evolve as a player, but I'm not seeing signs of it in his locker as of yet. He might evolve with more game time in the Exeter team, especially with how they look to play, but he's not an international candidate IMO.

to try the bloody knob.

we did it over a 100 times with Faz, in fairness