If Romania are chucked out of the world cup for fielding an ineligible player (Faka’osilea), hypothetically-speaking of course, it will leave a dozen nations who have attended every World Cup so far, although that could become 11 if Canada fails to qualify from the repechage. The others are the 10 tier 1 nations plus Japan. That's actually a ridiculously large number after 9 installments. I don't think there was a single nation that attended all of the first 4 FIFA World Cups, for instance.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
I've seen a couple of tweets today celebrating that Brian O'Driscoll still hold the all-time try-scoring record for the HN/5N/6N. Personally, i think that if he didn't have a shedload of tries after 65 tests and 15 tournaments, then you'd ask some serious questions. No other player has more than 46 caps (Philipe Sella) in the mid-field.
The leaderboard is:
BOD (Ire): 26 tries (65 tests)
I.S. Smith (Sco): 24 (31)
S.Williams (Wal): 22 (41)
G.O. Edwards (Wal): 18 (45)
C.N. Lowe (Eng): 18 (24)
R.Underwood (Eng): 18 (50)
G. North (Wal): 17 (33)
Of these players, BOD in fact has the worst strike rate of 0.40 tries per game, other than Underwood. Smith and Lowe are light years ahead.
Taking a minimum qualification of 10 tries, the best strike rates are:
A.J. Wallace (Sco, 1923-26): 11 tries in 9 matches = 1.22 tries/game
J.L. Williams (Wal, 1907-11): 15 in 14 = 1.07
R.A. Gibbs (Wal, 1906-11): 13 in 15 = 0.87
E. Morgan (Wal, 1902-06): 11 in 13 = 0.85
W. Llewellyn (Wal, 1899-05): 16 in 19 = 0.84
Of course it was easier to maintain a high strike rate over an amateur career of 3-5 seasons or so. Top 5 players whose careers at least overlapped with the pro era are:
E. Ntamack (Fra, 1994-2000): 11 in 17 = 0.65
W.J.H. Greenwood (Eng, 1998-2004): 15 in 24 = 0.63
J.T. Robinson (Eng, 2001-07): 14 in 24= 0.58
P.G. Saint-Andre (Fra, 1991-96): 13 in 23 = 0.57
B.C. Cohen (Eng, 2000-06): 16 in 29 = 0.55
What I'm trying to say, is that BOD was overrated.
For comparison's sake, here are the top try scorers for non-6N teams v 6N:
DI Campese (Aust, 1983-96): 29 in 42 = 0.69
JT Lomu (NZ, 1994-2002): 27 in 31 = 0.87
BG Habana (SA, 2004-16): 25 in 48 = 0.52
DC Howlett (NZ, 2000-07): 25 in 28 = 0.89
JT Rokocoko (NZ, 2003-10): 22 in 32 = 0.69
SJ Savea (NZ, 2012-16): 22 in 21 = 1.05
And top strike rates (10 try minimum):
SJ Savea (NZ, 2012-16): 22 in 21 = 1.05
BN Tune (Aust, 1996-2001): 16 in 16= 1.00
CS Terblanche (SA, 1998-2003): 16 in 17= 0.94
DC Howlett (NZ, 2000-07): 25 in 28 = 0.89
JT Lomu (NZ, 1994-2002): 27 in 31 = 0.87
JW Wilson (NZ, 1993-2001): 18 in 21 = 0.86
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% of nations competing in the continental championships
Europe 41/50 = 82 %
South America 12/16 = 75 %
Africa 30/56 = 53 %
North America 13/30 = 43 %
Asia 19/46 = 41 %
Oceania 7/25 = 28 %
total 122/223 = 54 %
* Europe: considering Israel, not considering Kosovo and Gibraltar
** South America: considering six nations of the isthmus, not considering Guyana, Guyane and Suriname
*** North America: plenty of little islands and dependent territories, 30 is an estimation rounded down
**** Oceania: considering the big five (Nz, Aus, Fij, Sam, Ton) plus Tahiti and Cook, the only two playing teams in the last cup
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
Year of test debut by team
This is of course highly dependent on what is regarded as a test (and as a national team). No doubt this could be riddled with asterisks and foot notes but fuck that. It's probably close enough. Rowan will of course chip in and let me know that in fact Algeria played its first test in the 1920s or whatever.
1871 : England, Scotland
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1875 : Ireland
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1881 : Wales
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1891 : Great Britain, South Africa
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1899 : Australia
1900 : Germany
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1903 : New Zealand
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1906 : France
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1910 : Argentina
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1912 : United States of America
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1919 : Romania
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1924 : Poland, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga
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1926 : Sri Lanka (as Ceylon)
1927 : Spain, Czechoslovakia
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1929 : Italy
1930 : Belgium, Netherlands, Japan
1931 : Morocco
1932 : Canada
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1934 : Hong Kong
1935 : Portugal
1936 : Chile
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1949 : Denmark, Sweden
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1951 : Brazil, Uruguay, East Germany
1952 : West Germany
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1955 : Kenya, Malaysia, Tanzania, Thailand
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1958 : Uganda, Peru
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1963 : Bulgaria
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1966 : New Caledonia, Vanuatu (as New Hebrides), Papua New Guinea, Wallis and Futuna
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1968 : Yugoslavia
1969 : Chinese Taipei, Korea, Solomon Islands
1970 : Singapore, Madagascar, Paraguay
1971 : Cook Islands, Tahiti
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1973 : Switzerland
1974 : Soviet Union, Laos
1975 : Bermuda, Jamaica, Luxembourg, Zambia
1976 : Ivory Coast, Tunisia
1977 : Guadaloupe, Martinique, Senegal
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1979 : Guyana, Trinidad and Tobago, Norway
1980 : South America
1981 : Barbados, Zimbabwe, Israel
1982 : Finland
1983 : Niue, Tokelau
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1985 : Cayman Islands, Mexico
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1987 : Nigeria, Andorra
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1989 : Georgia
1990 : Namibia, Croatia
1991 : Ukraine
1992 : Austria, Slovenia, Latvia, Russia, Hungary, Bosnia & Herzegovina
1993 : Bahamas, Lithuania, Arabian Gulf. Moldova
1994 : Kazakhstan
1995 : Reunion
1996 : Colombia, Monaco, British Virgin Islands, Botswana
1997 : China, St Lucia
1998 : Venezuela, Swaziland, India
1999 : Brunei
2000 : Dominican Republic, Malta
2001 : Cameroon, Togo
2002 : Turks and Caicos Islands
2003 : Burundi, Rwanda, Benin, Ghana, Mali, Mauritania
2004 : Armenia, Burkina Faso, Malawi, Pacific Islanders, Pakistan
2005 : Azerbaijan, Cambodia, Macau, Niger, St Vincent and Grenadines, Guam, African Leopards, Mauritius, Greece
2006 : Chad, Philippines, Mayotte, Indonesia, Slovakia, Costa Rica
2007 : Cyprus, Iran
2008 : Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan
2009 : Mongolia
2010 : Jordan, Lebanon, Estonia, DR Congo, Algeria, Egypt, Libya
2011 : United Arab Emirates, Qatar
2012 : Turkey, El Salvador, Ecuador, Guatemala
2013 : Curacao, US Virgin Islands, Nicaragua, Panama
2014 : Belarus
2015 : Montenegro, Lesotho, American Samoa, Honduras
2016 : Saudi Arabia, Gibraltar
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Valerie Adams’ PB in women's outdoor shotput is 21.24m, set in 2011. That is only 177th= on the all-time best throws list.
The most recent throw either equal or better than Val's best was 21.46 in 2000 by Larisa Peleshenko, a banned drugs cheat. Since 2000, Valerie has thrown 13 of the top 19 throws. The remaining 6 were all achieved by athletes banned for drug violations.
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Unless I've missed a country, Zimbabwe has the record for shortest amount of time between first test match and first appearance at a RWC: 1981 to 1987.
I'm a god
How can you kill a god?
Shame on you, sweet Nerevar
Zimbabwe did play an official test against Italy at Harare in 1973, winning 42-4. Of course, it was known as Rhodesia at that time and the capital was called Salisbury, but there is no question about that having been an official test (as there is over Rhodesia's earlier games against certain touring teams). I don't think the 73 test can be dismissed simply on the basis of a name change.
So I'm guessing Georgia - 14 years - would be the answer to both questions.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
As much as I hate to get into another issue about Rhodesian rugby, I am fairly certain that in 1973 only Italy awarded caps. In fact, they awarded “test” caps for every match on that tour of Southern Africa, which were mostly against South African provincial sides. The tour was arranged between the Italian and South African Unions; Rhodesia was a sub-Union of South Africa at the time.
The Rhodesian team included future Springbok Ian Robertson and Dick Coleshaw who played in Rhodesia while representing SA U23s and trialing four times for the Springboks. (This only makes sense if at the time Rhodesia was included under the South African Union.) The team also featured one player later capped for Zimbabwe in 1987 - Eric Barrett. The coach of that Rhodesian team was Ian Macintosh who later coached the Springboks.
Last edited by Lizard on Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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I think you'll find this one is regarded by all sides as an official test. That's the difference with the earlier games against NZ et al, while Zimbabwe may have recognized them retroactively, the home unions of the touring sides likely never will, for good reason. The sources I'm looking at - Rugby Data and rugbyinternational,net - all included that particular game. Also you've got Kenya in there in 1955 when it would have still been under white rule, and Ceylon before it changed its name to Sri Lanka. So fair's fair. Great work on the list, btw, I'll scrutinize it more thoroughly when I've got time...
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
rowan wrote:I think you'll find this one is regarded by all sides as an official test. That's the difference with the earlier games against NZ et al, while Zimbabwe may have recognized them retroactively, the home unions of the touring sides likely never will, for good reason. The sources I'm looking at - Rugby Data and rugbyinternational,net - all included that particular game. Also you've got Kenya in there in 1955 when it would have still been under white rule, and Ceylon before it changed its name to Sri Lanka. So fair's fair. Great work on the list, btw, I'll scrutinize it more thoroughly when I've got time...
Sorry - see edit above regarding Springboks in the Rhodesia team.
This match is included in databases as Italy capped it, not Rhodesia. ESPNScrum lists Italy's matches against the SA provinces as "tests" for the same reason, but you wouldn't argue that Natal considers its match to be a test.http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugb ... 20706.html
(Rugbydata includes all sorts of crap, BTW)
For rugby purposes, Rhodesia was just another South African province until Zimbabwean independence. Once again, if you can find me any official Zim RU source saying otherwise then I'll accept it. (Something like this by the ARU recognising the 1920s NSW team as Wallabies http://www.rugbyaustralia.com.au/RugbyAUAdmin.aspx)
Forms of Government, including "White rule" and colonialism has nothing to do with it. (If it did, explain how Ireland and Wales RFUs fit in!). Kenya had an independent rugby union from 1921 and Ceylon from 1908.
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Quite amazing that Germany played its first test before New Zealand & France. Who knew?!
Pretty sure the Raj set up an official rugby union in India before New Zealand had its own in place as well, although we see that India did not play a test until almost the end of the 20th century.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
The German rugby federation wasn't established until 1927, but a team representing Germany (the SC 1880 Frankfurt Club) competed in the 1900 Olympics alongside a British team (Moseley RFC) and a French side. The British and French sides were not capped. I'll be honest and say I do not know the basis on which German caps were awarded (possibly retrospective?)
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It seems as though there were a number of regional and quasi-national bodies in Germany before 1927. Some rugby-playing clubs at least were also affiliated to the national football association (i.e. soccer association).
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Yes, I think I've mentioned before that Germany recorded a couple of victories over France in the early years and were still running them close right up to the outbreak of WWII. Who knows how they might have developed had in not been for that disastrous event? Had there been no war, and they'd been added to the 5 Nations at that time, they'd probably be up there with the English and French right now. But that's all conjecture, of course.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
Ha. Much like I was still being picked in my club’s “Development XV” at the age of 31, with over 20 years experience under my belt. Cunts thought they were hilarious, voting me “Most Improved Player”...
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New Zealand 1921
Australia 1933
France 1958
Ireland 1965
Scotland 1965
England 1969
Wales 1999
Argentina 2015
Japan 2015
Italy 2016
So this might be their worst period, relatively speaking, since the mid 60s when they suffered first-up losses to Ireland & Scotland, while also going down to France for a second time, and losing away series' to Australia 0-2 and NZ 1-3. They bounced back from that, however. Can they do so again?
I've just noticed that Scotland actually beat South Africa in 1906 (6-0, in Glasgow). 1965 was their 2nd win.
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New Zealand 1921
Australia 1933
France 1958
Ireland 1965
Scotland 1965
England 1969
Wales 1999
Argentina 2015
Japan 2015
Italy 2016
So this might be their worst period, relatively speaking, since the mid 60s when they suffered first-up losses to Ireland & Scotland, while also going down to France for a second time, and losing away series' to Australia 0-2 and NZ 1-3. They bounced back from that, however. Can they do so again?
I've just noticed that Scotland actually beat South Africa in 1906 (6-0, in Glasgow). 1965 was their 2nd win.
Never noticed that one before either. I stand corrected
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
Moving swiftly along . . .
Great work on the list, btw, I'll scrutinize it more thoroughly when I've got time...
Who knew?!