RugbyRebels

Numbers wrote:

jngf wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:Conan was sensational?

He made a few carries but none of our carriers was penetrative to really dent the green wall in that first half - Itoje (notwithstanding his mighty fetching work) and Wyn Jones I feel in particular lacked power as a unit to punch holes - in fact Itoje was knocked back yards in one instance and carrying is the one area in which one feels he slightly under performs and does not live up to his superstar status (though more than makes up for it by acting like an openside in a locks body and he’s a given starter for all three tests) - do think our other lock needs to be a power carrier even if that’s at the expense of AWJ

It's Alun-Wyn Jones, so either Alun-Wyn or Jones, Wyn Jones is a different player entirely.

I assumed it was just part of the trolling to make the mistake

Any word on Biggar?

Autocorrect puts his name as Bugger, it is fitting.

Numbers wrote:I think we will see Aki in the next game and perhaps Liam Williams, Mako has probably done enough to warrant a start pending on the fitness of Wyn Jones.

I'd keep the looseheads as they are. Mako's an excellent option to come off the bench and inject energy into the side anyway, and you've got to remember that his performance at the weekend was fuelled by it only being a substitute outing where he could just go full-throttle from start to end.

I've got no idea what the solution to the centres is. Daly is clearly not it, but Aki/Henshaw would be stultifying. Maybe it'd work if we had Smith or Russell at 10, but Biggar's got to start on current form. Harris doesn't feel like a particularly exciting option either, but probably more so than Bosh Bros and he does have an impressive knack of improving to suit whatever standard of rugby he's dropped in at.

Puja

I'm not sold Biggar has to start after failing an HIA. But they will trust to the return to play protocols even if they look dubious to many on the outside. Interesting they said he'd be looking to return to training on Thursday, I thought they had to count at least 6 steps separated by 24 hours in the protocols, which means I don't even have the protocols clear in my mind at even a basic level

Puja wrote:

Numbers wrote:I think we will see Aki in the next game and perhaps Liam Williams, Mako has probably done enough to warrant a start pending on the fitness of Wyn Jones.

I'd keep the looseheads as they are. Mako's an excellent option to come off the bench and inject energy into the side anyway, and you've got to remember that his performance at the weekend was fuelled by it only being a substitute outing where he could just go full-throttle from start to end.

I've got no idea what the solution to the centres is. Daly is clearly not it, but Aki/Henshaw would be stultifying. Maybe it'd work if we had Smith or Russell at 10, but Biggar's got to start on current form. Harris doesn't feel like a particularly exciting option either, but probably more so than Bosh Bros and he does have an impressive knack of improving to suit whatever standard of rugby he's dropped in at.

Puja

As Sutherland was a late replacement for Wyn Jones you would expect Wyn Jones to be selected if fit, Vunipola to stay on the bench for his impact, I'd have Aki ta 12 and Henshaw at 13 every day of the week above the other centre options, if you think they are stultifying then I suggest you watch the 6 Nations game against Wales as they were tearing it up.

I suppose I’ve just missed Aki’s big games, but I’ve never really seen him look much more than a big hard-to-tackle lump. Though sometimes that is plenty I guess. He’s certainly physical.

I hadn’t got the impression he’d shown anything much on this tour so far but maybe his familiarity with Henshaw would make it worthwhile, if Henshaw is as effective at 13. I’d be more tempted to do what we can to shore up the 13 channel in defence though.

The calls for Williams in I don’t really get either. I can’t remember when I last saw a performance from him that matches his reputation. The good part of his reputation I mean.

Numbers wrote:

Puja wrote:

Numbers wrote:I think we will see Aki in the next game and perhaps Liam Williams, Mako has probably done enough to warrant a start pending on the fitness of Wyn Jones.

I'd keep the looseheads as they are. Mako's an excellent option to come off the bench and inject energy into the side anyway, and you've got to remember that his performance at the weekend was fuelled by it only being a substitute outing where he could just go full-throttle from start to end.

I've got no idea what the solution to the centres is. Daly is clearly not it, but Aki/Henshaw would be stultifying. Maybe it'd work if we had Smith or Russell at 10, but Biggar's got to start on current form. Harris doesn't feel like a particularly exciting option either, but probably more so than Bosh Bros and he does have an impressive knack of improving to suit whatever standard of rugby he's dropped in at.

Puja

As Sutherland was a late replacement for Wyn Jones you would expect Wyn Jones to be selected if fit, Vunipola to stay on the bench for his impact, I'd have Aki ta 12 and Henshaw at 13 every day of the week above the other centre options, if you think they are stultifying then I suggest you watch the 6 Nations game against Wales as they were tearing it up.

The chat has been Wyn Jones will not make the 2nd test, but teams often bullshit when it comes to player availability

Digby wrote:I'm not sold Biggar has to start after failing an HIA. But they will trust to the return to play protocols even if they look dubious to many on the outside. Interesting they said he'd be looking to return to training on Thursday, I thought they had to count at least 6 steps separated by 24 hours in the protocols, which means I don't even have the protocols clear in my mind at even a basic level

Yes, it's 6 stages, 24 hours apart.

Stage 1: Mental and physical rest
Stage 2: General aerobic exercise
Stage 3: Sports specific exercises
Stage 4: Non-contact training
....Must pass neurological assessment
Stage 5: Full contact training
Stage 6: Ready to play

So if he's not exhibited any symptoms since Saturday afternoon, and that he passes his SCAT5 tests, he's free to take part in full contact training on Thursday

Mikey Brown wrote:I suppose I’ve just missed Aki’s big games, but I’ve never really seen him look much more than a big hard-to-tackle lump. Though sometimes that is plenty I guess. He’s certainly physical.

I hadn’t got the impression he’d shown anything much on this tour so far but maybe his familiarity with Henshaw would make it worthwhile, if Henshaw is as effective at 13. I’d be more tempted to do what we can to shore up the 13 channel in defence though.

The calls for Williams in I don’t really get either. I can’t remember when I last saw a performance from him that matches his reputation. The good part of his reputation I mean.

That would be the unseen stuff like positioning yourself correctly to field through kicks... and not missing tackles.

Which Tyler wrote:

Digby wrote:I'm not sold Biggar has to start after failing an HIA. But they will trust to the return to play protocols even if they look dubious to many on the outside. Interesting they said he'd be looking to return to training on Thursday, I thought they had to count at least 6 steps separated by 24 hours in the protocols, which means I don't even have the protocols clear in my mind at even a basic level

Yes, it's 6 stages, 24 hours apart.

Stage 1: Mental and physical rest
Stage 2: General aerobic exercise
Stage 3: Sports specific exercises
Stage 4: Non-contact training
Stage 5: Full contact training
Stage 6: Ready to play

So the full contact training on Thursday would seem to align after all, thanks for the info.

Numbers wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:I suppose I’ve just missed Aki’s big games, but I’ve never really seen him look much more than a big hard-to-tackle lump. Though sometimes that is plenty I guess. He’s certainly physical.

I hadn’t got the impression he’d shown anything much on this tour so far but maybe his familiarity with Henshaw would make it worthwhile, if Henshaw is as effective at 13. I’d be more tempted to do what we can to shore up the 13 channel in defence though.

The calls for Williams in I don’t really get either. I can’t remember when I last saw a performance from him that matches his reputation. The good part of his reputation I mean.

That would be the unseen stuff like positioning yourself correctly to field through kicks... and not missing tackles.

I rate Williams as a player and would have had him starting on the wing last week, but he dropped his two high balls on Saturday and not sure he did enough, or the others poorly enough to merit a change in the back 3. According to the official Lions stats he didn't touch the ball or make a tackle which can't be right. The fact that Gatland only put him on for 9 minutes suggest they were happy with the starting 3 though.

I wouldn't have an issue with him coming in on the wing although Duhan didn't really do a great deal wrong either; took two high balls, knocked another two to team mates, forced a knock on and won a penalty chasing high kicks. I though Hogg's boot was useful at times on Saturday.

Is anyone else getting really annoyed by the barrage of complaining that Erasmus (and the completely separate and totally not a Rassie Erasmus alt account) has been doing through Twitter? I get coaches putting pressure on referees by complaining about specific issues that they want to focus attention onto, but this just seems to be scattergun bitching about individual decisions and it feels strikingly undignified, especially after a loss.

Plus, your alt praising you for your dignified refusal to comment on decisions while tweeting a video highlighting the decisions that you're not complaining about, then you retweeting that alt thanking them for the praise and saying "This is rugby, sometimes decisions go for you and sometimes they don't" while coincidentally publicising the video criticising the decisions that you've just explicitly said you're going to be the bigger man about and not criticise, is taking praeteritio to whole new levels.

Puja

Will be interesting to see f the Lions get in the refs ear about the Boks starting front row. I'll need to watch it again but it looked like they weren't ever set as in they were engaging and as the ball was in that quick they just carried on the momentum. There were also a couple of calls I think the ref missed. That all stopped immediately when their replacement front row came on.

We might see Jones and Owens start but I think who ever starts there will be fine.

We also need to remember how little rugby some of these combos will have played together. Will/should be better next week.

Numbers wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:I suppose I’ve just missed Aki’s big games, but I’ve never really seen him look much more than a big hard-to-tackle lump. Though sometimes that is plenty I guess. He’s certainly physical.

I hadn’t got the impression he’d shown anything much on this tour so far but maybe his familiarity with Henshaw would make it worthwhile, if Henshaw is as effective at 13. I’d be more tempted to do what we can to shore up the 13 channel in defence though.

The calls for Williams in I don’t really get either. I can’t remember when I last saw a performance from him that matches his reputation. The good part of his reputation I mean.

That would be the unseen stuff like positioning yourself correctly to field through kicks... and not missing tackles.

I’m not dismissing those things at all, I just didn’t know if he’s actually been doing them as flawlessly as his reputation would suggest. I didn’t see all of Wales’s 6 nations games though and haven’t seen him at club level for a long time.

Puja wrote:Is anyone else getting really annoyed by the barrage of complaining that Erasmus (and the completely separate and totally not a Rassie Erasmus alt account) has been doing through Twitter? I get coaches putting pressure on referees by complaining about specific issues that they want to focus attention onto, but this just seems to be scattergun bitching about individual decisions and it feels strikingly undignified, especially after a loss.

Plus, your alt praising you for your dignified refusal to comment on decisions while tweeting a video highlighting the decisions that you're not complaining about, then you retweeting that alt thanking them for the praise and saying "This is rugby, sometimes decisions go for you and sometimes they don't" while coincidentally publicising the video criticising the decisions that you've just explicitly said you're going to be the bigger man about and not criticise, is taking praeteritio to whole new levels.

Puja

He is a snide dick. At least have the balls to do the criticising off your own account. I wouldn't really have an issue with that.

I assume he'll forget the Lions being penalised for being in front of the kicker but SA getting away with it all game including the last kick off?

Puja wrote:Is anyone else getting really annoyed by the barrage of complaining that Erasmus (and the completely separate and totally not a Rassie Erasmus alt account) has been doing through Twitter? I get coaches putting pressure on referees by complaining about specific issues that they want to focus attention onto, but this just seems to be scattergun bitching about individual decisions and it feels strikingly undignified, especially after a loss.

Plus, your alt praising you for your dignified refusal to comment on decisions while tweeting a video highlighting the decisions that you're not complaining about, then you retweeting that alt thanking them for the praise and saying "This is rugby, sometimes decisions go for you and sometimes they don't" while coincidentally publicising the video criticising the decisions that you've just explicitly said you're going to be the bigger man about and not criticise, is taking praeteritio to whole new levels.

Puja

A] It's a little annoying, yes; I'm sure it'd be much more so if I actually used twitter, and was therefore subjecting myself to these things.
B] James Haskell approves the post but...
C] James Haskell doesn't understand the word "praeteritio" but if he did, he'd approve of that; so you'll have to make do with an approving nod from Suzie Dent (possibly whilst Jimmy makes jokes about glory holes)

Which Tyler wrote:

Puja wrote:Is anyone else getting really annoyed by the barrage of complaining that Erasmus (and the completely separate and totally not a Rassie Erasmus alt account) has been doing through Twitter? I get coaches putting pressure on referees by complaining about specific issues that they want to focus attention onto, but this just seems to be scattergun bitching about individual decisions and it feels strikingly undignified, especially after a loss.

Plus, your alt praising you for your dignified refusal to comment on decisions while tweeting a video highlighting the decisions that you're not complaining about, then you retweeting that alt thanking them for the praise and saying "This is rugby, sometimes decisions go for you and sometimes they don't" while coincidentally publicising the video criticising the decisions that you've just explicitly said you're going to be the bigger man about and not criticise, is taking praeteritio to whole new levels.

Puja

A] It's a little annoying, yes; I'm sure it'd be much more so if I actually used twitter, and was therefore subjecting myself to these things.
B] James Haskell approves the post but...
C] James Haskell doesn't understand the word "praeteritio" but if he did, he'd approve of that; so you'll have to make do with an approving nod from Suzie Dent (possibly whilst Jimmy makes jokes about glory holes)

I'm not on twitter generally, but this's come up in a few rugby circles so it came to my attention. Opinion elsewhere appears squarely divided whether it's entertaining shithousery or just being a dick. I don't think I'd mind it so much if I got what he was trying to accomplish - like if there was a theme that he was trying to direct the referee to look at - but it's just coming over as aimless complaining about how hard South Africa had it and how lucky the Lions were. Maybe the aim is to piss the Lions off, idk?

Praeteritio is the action of saying something by saying that you're not going to say it. Like, "I would never stoop so low as to mention my opponent's history of alcoholism."

Puja

Sounds as if Wyn Jones may not be fit for selection for the 2nd Test but Finn Russell will.

I still struggle to picture him getting a shot in the tests unless Biggar is definitely out and Farrell is playing like shit, but then I struggled to picture Price getting on the pitch at all for a test. I keep reading about how Farrell came on and shored things up for the Lions, which conflicts slightly with my memory of him frantically hoofing away every bit of possession we got, but he did kick that penalty at least.

I thought Farrell was largely unremarkable. He did what was needed in terms of slowing things down and pinning the Boks back but nothing special either. Likewise, didn't seem to be culpable in any of the cock ups that almost gave SA the game.

Ah yes. 'Pinning them back' is the phrase I keep seeing. It's very possible my memory is failing me, I just can't remember any of the effective ones. I actually think it's a good role for him though in theory.

francoisfou wrote:Sounds as if Wyn Jones may not be fit for selection for the 2nd Test but Finn Russell will.

I'm not sure Finn has any part to play other than good tourist.

Jesus, if they pick the wooden Ice Man against that one-dimensional Bok side, then, just fuck...

Big D wrote:

francoisfou wrote:Sounds as if Wyn Jones may not be fit for selection for the 2nd Test but Finn Russell will.

I'm not sure Finn has any part to play other than good tourist.

If Biggar isn't fit then I would even play Farrell at 12 to accommodate Finn, he is the best 10 we have but his kicking from the tee isn't always great.

Numbers wrote:

Big D wrote:

francoisfou wrote:Sounds as if Wyn Jones may not be fit for selection for the 2nd Test but Finn Russell will.

I'm not sure Finn has any part to play other than good tourist.

If Biggar isn't fit then I would even play Farrell at 12 to accommodate Finn, he is the best 10 we have but his kicking from the tee isn't always great.

My concerns with Finn isn't his ability, I trust him more than most and think we would get a game from him like the France game (except the red card) but since the 18th of June he has one start and one minor cameo off the bench. He has done little on the field work for 2 weeks and I think to ask him to step into start would be a big ask.

If it came to (start or bench) it I think the coaching staff would need to think hard about whether in this exact situation is Finn the right player to pick or Smith. Only due to the lack of game time and time on the training paddock Finn has had over the last 6 weeks.

In saying that Finn has the self confidence to be fine.