RugbyRebels

Yes, but it’s way more than the tries. He’s a very different type of 8 to Dombrandt. He doesn’t typically make the big clean breaks Dombrandt does, but his work rate is brilliant and he’s more of a heavy carrier. His style of play actually reminds me quite a bit of Faletau.

As much as I love Dombrandt, I feel like the back row needs to be set up in a way that makes the most of his skills. Whereas, I think you could just drop Willis in alongside most flankers without really needing to make compromises.

If he gets a chance, I think he will do very well and really put his hand up for a regular place in the squad.

FKAS wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Tom Willis had a fine game at 8 for Wasps today. Might have clinched his spot in the England squad.

Scoring a hatrick from 8 is more than a little nudge to Eddie that if he wants an alternative to Dombrandt then Willis is there and ready to go.

Lol. Scoring tries from number 8 in the AP is a way to win Eddie’s favour?

Mikey Brown wrote:

FKAS wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Tom Willis had a fine game at 8 for Wasps today. Might have clinched his spot in the England squad.

Scoring a hatrick from 8 is more than a little nudge to Eddie that if he wants an alternative to Dombrandt then Willis is there and ready to go.

Lol. Scoring tries from number 8 in the AP is a way to win Eddie’s favour?

Ha good point. He is a little taller than Simmons but not enough to be a prime line out option that might count against him. A number that can carry hard and jump in the lineout is Eddie's dream.

Ribbans red card in the game Vs Chiefs. Makes it unlikely that he will be available for England selection until the last friendly.

Yep. Shame for him. He seems to be consistently very good.

I do like Willis too. Not noticed whether he ever jumps at the lineout, I'd imagine that's one thing Dombrandt has over him. He looks to have that Billy/Morgan shape that might not be suited to it, but could be wrong.

Willis playing well. He must be in contention for the A game at least.

Ribbans red was really disappointing. I was really looking forward to him playing for England.

Mikey Brown wrote:Yep. Shame for him. He seems to be consistently very good.

I do like Willis too. Not noticed whether he ever jumps at the lineout, I'd imagine that's one thing Dombrandt has over him. He looks to have that Billy/Morgan shape that might not be suited to it, but could be wrong.

Are you saying Tom Willis has the Billy/Morgan shape, or Dombrandt does?

Tom Willis goes up in the lineout.

Yeah I was talking about Willis, though noticed the tape on his legs when I saw the highlights just now. I just thought he might be a bit chunky for jumping.

Mikey Brown wrote:

FKAS wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Tom Willis had a fine game at 8 for Wasps today. Might have clinched his spot in the England squad.

Scoring a hatrick from 8 is more than a little nudge to Eddie that if he wants an alternative to Dombrandt then Willis is there and ready to go.

Lol. Scoring tries from number 8 in the AP is a way to win Eddie’s favour?

I didn’t say anything about the tries?

As I said in the second post, his work rate is very good and he seems to have the hard to find skill of being in the right place and the right time more often than not. Tries are a bonus not what I’d be prioritising from a number 8.

Did anyone else clock that Ted Hill was playing lock for Worcester yesterday?

I know he used to swap between 4 and 6 at age grade and I wonder whether he might benefit from playing a bit more at lock? I take height and weight stats with a bit of a pinch of salt, but he’s apparently more or less the same height and weight as Maro.

Scrumhead wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:

FKAS wrote:
Scoring a hatrick from 8 is more than a little nudge to Eddie that if he wants an alternative to Dombrandt then Willis is there and ready to go.

Lol. Scoring tries from number 8 in the AP is a way to win Eddie’s favour?

I didn’t say anything about the tries?

As I said in the second post, his work rate is very good and he seems to have the hard to find skill of being in the right place and the right time more often than not. Tries are a bonus not what I’d be prioritising from a number 8.

I believe it was a quip about Simmonds.

Puja

Scrumhead wrote:Did anyone else clock that Ted Hill was playing lock for Worcester yesterday?

I know he used to swap between 4 and 6 at age grade and I wonder whether he might benefit from playing a bit more at lock? I take height and weight stats with a bit of a pinch of salt, but he’s apparently more or less the same height and weight as Maro.

I don't mind which plays which but I want to see a 5/6 combination of Hill and Martin for at least one of the three games.

FKAS wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Did anyone else clock that Ted Hill was playing lock for Worcester yesterday?

I know he used to swap between 4 and 6 at age grade and I wonder whether he might benefit from playing a bit more at lock? I take height and weight stats with a bit of a pinch of salt, but he’s apparently more or less the same height and weight as Maro.

I don't mind which plays which but I want to see a 5/6 combination of Hill and Martin for at least one of the three games.

I’m not against that at all.

For Ted Hill, I’m wondering if a reverse PSdT move might be beneficial for him? Given the relative strength of back row options vs. lock, it’s certainly an easier route to being an England regular and Ted has the beef and aggression to make a good fist of it.

Scrumhead wrote:

FKAS wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Did anyone else clock that Ted Hill was playing lock for Worcester yesterday?

I know he used to swap between 4 and 6 at age grade and I wonder whether he might benefit from playing a bit more at lock? I take height and weight stats with a bit of a pinch of salt, but he’s apparently more or less the same height and weight as Maro.

I don't mind which plays which but I want to see a 5/6 combination of Hill and Martin for at least one of the three games.

I’m not against that at all.

For Ted Hill, I’m wondering if a reverse PSdT move might be beneficial for him? Given the relative strength of back row options vs. lock, it’s certainly an easier route to being an England regular and Ted has the beef and aggression to make a good fist of it.

Alongside Itoje, you could hardly argue that a combination of Hill and Martin, or possibly the likes of Isiekwe, lacked either the size or dynamism.

Could be quite exciting really

TheNomad wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:

FKAS wrote:
I don't mind which plays which but I want to see a 5/6 combination of Hill and Martin for at least one of the three games.

I’m not against that at all.

For Ted Hill, I’m wondering if a reverse PSdT move might be beneficial for him? Given the relative strength of back row options vs. lock, it’s certainly an easier route to being an England regular and Ted has the beef and aggression to make a good fist of it.

Alongside Itoje, you could hardly argue that a combination of Hill and Martin, or possibly the likes of Isiekwe, lacked either the size or dynamism.

Could be quite exciting really

I'm willing to bet jngf could argue that though.

Puja

A racing certainty.

Admittedly the stats could be wrong, but Ted is apparently taller than Itoje and only a kg or two lighter.

Martin’s obviously a bit younger so has more time to fill out, but Ted’s already a good size for a lock and still has plenty of dynamism.

Tigers website has Martin at 6ft6 and 118kg (18st 8lbs). I agree he's got the frame fill out comfortably over 19 stone. He could be a monster but the key will be keeping that mobility. He mentioned after the Bristol game he'd been working on his defence and that was very evident and Nathan Hughes will be having nightmares of a navy coloured scrum cap flying towards him.

The summer is the ideal time to see where these guys stack up. Scotland A, USA and Canada will give a fair test of their development without throwing them in the deep end. Martin looked comfortable in his very brief cameo Vs Ireland but you can't judge on that.

If Jones wants more carrying in the pack then Hill at lock would help that though it's hard to judge what his effect on the scrum is without getting him in there.

Just need to know if Hill can bring any of that additional dynamic play when fatigued by scrum, maul and ruck work, and whether his set piece and tight work is up to snuff

I kind of get this discussion, but are we really expecting either Hill or Martin to displace the Curry or Willis options (among others) at 6?

Hill and Itoje would be a little on the short side for a lock pairing I'd think, but if the lineout and maul is up to it then I guess it doesn't matter.

Mikey Brown wrote:I kind of get this discussion, but are we really expecting either Hill or Martin to displace the Curry or Willis options (among others) at 6?

Hill and Itoje would be a little on the short side for a lock pairing I'd think, but if the lineout and maul is up to it then I guess it doesn't matter.

TBH, I thought Hill might have forced Eddie’s hand but he’s not been quite as stellar as he was previously until the last few games where he’s been immense.

Eddie’s repeatedly looked at locks at 6 because he wants a big blindside who is a lineout jumper. Hill and Martin are the closest to the du Toit prototype he seems to want at 6.

At the same time, I’m arguing that Hill could possibly focus on lock because I don’t think he’s quite good enough to displace Underhill or Willis (when fit).

I think Martin will end up at lock, he’s just got some bulking up to do.

Mikey Brown wrote:I kind of get this discussion, but are we really expecting either Hill or Martin to displace the Curry or Willis options (among others) at 6?

Hill and Itoje would be a little on the short side for a lock pairing I'd think, but if the lineout and maul is up to it then I guess it doesn't matter.

The question is less whether they can displace Curry/Willis and more whether they can obviate the need for Billy Vunipola. Get a big beast of a 6 in and suddenly you can put Curry, Willis, or even Simmonds in at 8.

Puja

Scrumhead wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:I kind of get this discussion, but are we really expecting either Hill or Martin to displace the Curry or Willis options (among others) at 6?

Hill and Itoje would be a little on the short side for a lock pairing I'd think, but if the lineout and maul is up to it then I guess it doesn't matter.

I think Martin will end up at lock, he’s just got some bulking up to do.

Because 18 and a half stone is too small?

I take the figures with a bit of a pinch of salt and to me he currently looks a bit too rangy/lean to be a test lock. He has the frame to be a big boy which is what we need.

Puja wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:I kind of get this discussion, but are we really expecting either Hill or Martin to displace the Curry or Willis options (among others) at 6?

Hill and Itoje would be a little on the short side for a lock pairing I'd think, but if the lineout and maul is up to it then I guess it doesn't matter.

The question is less whether they can displace Curry/Willis and more whether they can obviate the need for Billy Vunipola. Get a big beast of a 6 in and suddenly you can put Curry, Willis, or even Simmonds in at 8.

Puja

Yep. Not against that either. Or potentially given Tom Willis and Dombrandt both jump in the lineout, we might have five viable lineout options (both locks + the back row).