RugbyRebels

fivepointer wrote:Seems legit."Remit set to be expanded" Hmmmm....

Chris Foy
@FoyChris
·
18h
Cockerill to join revamped #England coaching staff with appointment expected to be announced next week. Former Leicester DoR to be in charge of lineout + contact work but remit set to expanded in due course. Story on ⁦
@MailSport
⁩

Might be news to Matt Proudfoot that his remit is set to be expanded! Cockerill's first victim getting edged towards the exit...

Shiny wrote:I said last night on another site, grab your popcorn this might be a bumpy ride. In 6 months only one of them will still be with England and it might not be Uncle Edward.

I can actually see Uncle Eddie and Cockers getting on really well. Eddie does love a hard-working plain speaker and I'd say it's even odds whether they drive each other spare or get on like a house on fire.

Big question is whether they'd be a good or a bad influence on each other.

Puja

Aren't there rumours Proudfoot is off already? Have been for a while?

Cockers in the short intense international bursts could work I reckon.

Shiny wrote:

Puja wrote:

switchskier wrote:Sone US sites reporting Cockerill to join the England set up to oversee lineout and contact work, to be announced in the coming days.

I mean... he did always run a superb driving maul when he was with Leicester. I can see some merit to it, as long as he's kept very tightly in his box. Mind, what's the odds of that happening with the fluidity of coaches joining and leaving this England setup? He'll be head coach in 6 months' time.

Puja

I said last night on another site, grab your popcorn this might be a bumpy ride. In 6 months only one of them will still be with England and it might not be Uncle Edward.

I think Cockers is perfect for the job. He's a great coach and has previously worked well under DORs with vision like Howard. His main issue for me is that he's a terrible DOR. Cockers is all about winning next weekend, he's not the man for developing a team and a style of play that will evolve and improve steadily over years. It's the main issue with his time at Tigers, we needed to appoint someone above him not continually hire young coaches to work underneath him.

FKAS wrote:

Shiny wrote:

Puja wrote:
I mean... he did always run a superb driving maul when he was with Leicester. I can see some merit to it, as long as he's kept very tightly in his box. Mind, what's the odds of that happening with the fluidity of coaches joining and leaving this England setup? He'll be head coach in 6 months' time.

Puja

I said last night on another site, grab your popcorn this might be a bumpy ride. In 6 months only one of them will still be with England and it might not be Uncle Edward.

I think Cockers is perfect for the job. He's a great coach and has previously worked well under DORs with vision like Howard. His main issue for me is that he's a terrible DOR. Cockers is all about winning next weekend, he's not the man for developing a team and a style of play that will evolve and improve steadily over years. It's the main issue with his time at Tigers, we needed to appoint someone above him not continually hire young coaches to work underneath him.

Mind, the two people that we did hire to work above him didn't exactly last too long. Meyer apparently had family illness behind his departure, but Loffreda definitely got the Spanish Archer and rumour has it that it was Cockerill's influence on the board that delivered the coup de grace.

Not as regularly regicidal as Mike Ford, perhaps, but he has definitely got form.

Puja

Raggs wrote:Aren't there rumours Proudfoot is off already? Have been for a while?

I haven't heard any specifically, but he is last man standing of the last revamp, so his place isn't the most secure...

Puja

I haven’t heard or read anything about Proudfoot leaving.

I think Cockers will be a great appointment. He has a reputation as an excellent units coach, and I think he’ll hit on a really good pitch for the short sharp international windows.

Also, I recall cockerill saying a while back that him and Eddie have a good working relationship/friendship going back quite a while.

Puja wrote:

FKAS wrote:

Shiny wrote:
I said last night on another site, grab your popcorn this might be a bumpy ride. In 6 months only one of them will still be with England and it might not be Uncle Edward.

I think Cockers is perfect for the job. He's a great coach and has previously worked well under DORs with vision like Howard. His main issue for me is that he's a terrible DOR. Cockers is all about winning next weekend, he's not the man for developing a team and a style of play that will evolve and improve steadily over years. It's the main issue with his time at Tigers, we needed to appoint someone above him not continually hire young coaches to work underneath him.

Mind, the two people that we did hire to work above him didn't exactly last too long. Meyer apparently had family illness behind his departure, but Loffreda definitely got the Spanish Archer and rumour has it that it was Cockerill's influence on the board that delivered the coup de grace.

Not as regularly regicidal as Mike Ford, perhaps, but he has definitely got form.

Puja

Loffreda upset a lot of the Tigers old guard though. He effectively forced Ollie Smith out the club. I'm sure I've heard Ben Kay say previously that he was amongst the veteran players that went to the board and said Loffreda just wasn't working. I don't think he's had a meaningful job since which says it all about Marcelo.

Meyer I think Cockers liked. He came to visit Oval Park whilst Cockers was in charge and he was visiting with SA. Meyer would have been a success at Tigers but it would have taken a bit more time. Both his and and his wife's parents had health issues back in SA so you can understand why he went back early.

What England need is a coach the players will listen to when being told giving away penalties isn't a good idea. It's not been Eddie or Mitchell, it's not even been Townsend or Gats on the Lions tour, it wasn't Borthwick, if it's Dick Cock then great

Just occurred to me that Sam Simmonds might not be subject to the same rest period as the EPS guys. Could make a big difference to Exeter considering that they’re definitely missing LCD and Hill.

Scrumhead wrote:Just occurred to me that Sam Simmonds might not be subject to the same rest period as the EPS guys. Could make a big difference to Exeter considering that they’re definitely missing LCD and Hill.

I thought it was BIL specific, not EPS? So they'll have to rest Simmonds and Hogg?

Puja

Puja wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Just occurred to me that Sam Simmonds might not be subject to the same rest period as the EPS guys. Could make a big difference to Exeter considering that they’re definitely missing LCD and Hill.

I thought it was BIL specific, not EPS? So they'll have to rest Simmonds and Hogg?

Puja

See that would make sense whereas the Prem clubs are less than enamoured with the Lions setup so that might not be the case.

FKAS wrote:

Puja wrote:

Scrumhead wrote:Just occurred to me that Sam Simmonds might not be subject to the same rest period as the EPS guys. Could make a big difference to Exeter considering that they’re definitely missing LCD and Hill.

I thought it was BIL specific, not EPS? So they'll have to rest Simmonds and Hogg?

Puja

See that would make sense whereas the Prem clubs are less than enamoured with the Lions setup so that might not be the case.

I had been given to understand money had changed hands. I reserve the right to be entirely hallucinating things though.

Puja

The announcement as I recall was English players on the jamboree to have a 10 week rest, and England players on the jamboree to also be stood down one week of the autumn series. I don't recall if English players was specified as EPS

I’m 99% sure the press release I saw did specifically say EPS. In any case, I’d hope Exeter are sensible enough to give Simmonds a decent rest.

I’m assuming that the rest periods for any non-English Lions playing in the Premiership is at discretion of their respective Unions?

https://therpa.co.uk/news/2018/10/in-se ... confirmed/

- England players on the 2021 British and Irish Lions tour to have a rest week during the 2021 Autumn internationals
- English Lions’ players to have 10 weeks break

Note the difference between England players and English players.

Tigersman wrote:https://therpa.co.uk/news/2018/10/in-se ... confirmed/

- England players on the 2021 British and Irish Lions tour to have a rest week during the 2021 Autumn internationals
- English Lions’ players to have 10 weeks break

Note the difference between England players and English players.

I'd say that unequivocally includes Simmonds (and Smith) then.

Scrumhead wrote:I’m assuming that the rest periods for any non-English Lions playing in the Premiership is at discretion of their respective Unions?

Did you mean respective clubs? I can't see Exeter or Bath caring too much what the SRU or WRU has to say about Hogg and Faletau, especially given Premiership Rugby's collective bargaining position of only giving the minimum respect possible to unions who haven't bunged them cash.

Puja

No. I meant what I wrote. I wouldn’t expect there to be any consideration for that in normal test scenario, but the Lions is a commercial outfit and we know money has changed hands.

Only payment from the Lions was for player release wasn’t it? As a chunk of the tour falls outside the international window. Can’t see on what basis the WRU or SRU can make demands?

Only the Japan game was outside the 5 week window, and actually the IRB even stuck on the Japan game on the list, although there was some agreement to get players released asap after their domestic commitments were done.

OK. I stand corrected.

That window doesn't mean you have to rest players returning from a tour.

Ellis Genge appointed Tigers club captain. He's increased his leadership role with Tigers and England recently and this is a good reward for it. He's matured a lot over the last 18 months so it's a good decision in my view.

FKAS wrote:Ellis Genge appointed Tigers club captain. He's increased his leadership role with Tigers and England recently and this is a good reward for it. He's matured a lot over the last 18 months so it's a good decision in my view.

Agreed. He's really thrived with having been given more responsibility.

Plus, I'm very happy that it's not TYoungs again. All due respect to him as a great servant of the club, but his peak was several years ago now and we should be looking to move past him.

Puja

Puja wrote:

FKAS wrote:Ellis Genge appointed Tigers club captain. He's increased his leadership role with Tigers and England recently and this is a good reward for it. He's matured a lot over the last 18 months so it's a good decision in my view.

Agreed. He's really thrived with having been given more responsibility.

Plus, I'm very happy that it's not TYoungs again. All due respect to him as a great servant of the club, but his peak was several years ago now and we should be looking to move past him.

Puja

Both captain and vice captain are in their mid twenties (26?). Certainly points towards us looking at players at their peak as opposed to those with the most experience. It's a move I think should really work for the club.

The pride on Ellis's face when he was talking about Whitcombe's impact off the bench Vs Wasps in the last game of the season and how he spoke about Smith's call up having been the first to congratulate him from the players when he got subbed. Tells you a lot about the guy particularly with the Smith thing what with Genge snubbed for what was on paper the ideal Lions tour for him. Makes a lot of sense to me for him to be captain.

Lee Blackett on @WaspsRugby injuries “Joe Launchbury and Jack Willis won't be back until around Christmas time.” Meanwhile, Wing/centre Paolo Odogwu not due back until the New Year.

Not good news for Wasps or for England.