EPS Watch / Player Form Thread

[Raggs]

Apols if already posted but I’ve just read that Kruis will retire when his contract in Japan finishes to concentrate on his business.

Just read this too. Surprising and disappointing from an England POV, but fair play to him.

There was also a direct quote saying: “I wouldn’t play for another UK club apart from Sarries” so perhaps this is linked to them re-signing a bunch of their other players and not having the cap space for Kruis. Also possibly why they went for Tizard.

I think that's easy to say if you know you're retiring. I'm sure he'd have zero issues going to Leicester to be with Borthwick for instance, if he was sticking around.

[Mellsblue]

Apols if already posted but I’ve just read that Kruis will retire when his contract in Japan finishes to concentrate on his business.

Just read this too. Surprising and disappointing from an England POV, but fair play to him.

There was also a direct quote saying: “I wouldn’t play for another UK club apart from Sarries” so perhaps this is linked to them re-signing a bunch of their other players and not having the cap space for Kruis. Also possibly why they went for Tizard.

So … I blame Saracens for not signing Kruis (indirectly sealing his retirement) instead stealing Tizard from Quins. Shame on them.

From the article I read, he could’ve gone back to Sarries but his business is at a stage where it needed him to work full time.

[Mellsblue]

Apols if already mentioned on another thread:

[Puja]

Apols if already mentioned on another thread:

He really does have no luck whatsoever, does he?

Puja

[Which Tyler]

Not sure this deserves a thread of its own.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/ ... p-anything

Joe Cokanasiga: ‘Staying angry for a long time doesn’t help anything’

At last there are a few rays of sunshine to help raise Joe Cokanasiga’s spirits. No one in English rugby has been on a more intense emotional road these past three years but finally light is visible at the end of a dispiritingly dark tunnel. “Everything happens for a reason,” murmurs the big man softly. “I’m a big believer in that. My time will come.”

Sitting outside at on the steps of Bath’s country mansion training ground, with the daffodils flowering behind him and spring firmly in the air, his optimistic smile is also a much-needed antidote to the massive challenges the Cokanasiga family have had to confront, many shamefully inflicted on them by the British government.

Imagine being Cokanasiga’s father, Ilaitia, who served almost 14 years in the British army, including two tours of Iraq and one in Afghanistan, only to be denied re-entry to the UK after being told he no longer had a legal right to remain. Now imagine being his mother Kitty, in tears on the phone to her stranded husband as she fought to overcome a cancerous brain tumour. Or Big Joe himself, representing a country which suddenly decided to turn its back on his family and other servicemen in similar positions.

ARTICLE CONTINUES...

[Mikey Brown]

Not sure this deserves a thread of its own.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/ ... p-anything

Joe Cokanasiga: ‘Staying angry for a long time doesn’t help anything’

At last there are a few rays of sunshine to help raise Joe Cokanasiga’s spirits. No one in English rugby has been on a more intense emotional road these past three years but finally light is visible at the end of a dispiritingly dark tunnel. “Everything happens for a reason,” murmurs the big man softly. “I’m a big believer in that. My time will come.”

Sitting outside at on the steps of Bath’s country mansion training ground, with the daffodils flowering behind him and spring firmly in the air, his optimistic smile is also a much-needed antidote to the massive challenges the Cokanasiga family have had to confront, many shamefully inflicted on them by the British government.

Imagine being Cokanasiga’s father, Ilaitia, who served almost 14 years in the British army, including two tours of Iraq and one in Afghanistan, only to be denied re-entry to the UK after being told he no longer had a legal right to remain. Now imagine being his mother Kitty, in tears on the phone to her stranded husband as she fought to overcome a cancerous brain tumour. Or Big Joe himself, representing a country which suddenly decided to turn its back on his family and other servicemen in similar positions.

ARTICLE CONTINUES...

Really good read. I mean what a bastard of a situation, but he seems to have a great attitude. Would absolutely love for him to hit his stride for England again.

[Puja]

Not sure this deserves a thread of its own.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/ ... p-anything

Joe Cokanasiga: ‘Staying angry for a long time doesn’t help anything’

At last there are a few rays of sunshine to help raise Joe Cokanasiga’s spirits. No one in English rugby has been on a more intense emotional road these past three years but finally light is visible at the end of a dispiritingly dark tunnel. “Everything happens for a reason,” murmurs the big man softly. “I’m a big believer in that. My time will come.”

Sitting outside at on the steps of Bath’s country mansion training ground, with the daffodils flowering behind him and spring firmly in the air, his optimistic smile is also a much-needed antidote to the massive challenges the Cokanasiga family have had to confront, many shamefully inflicted on them by the British government.

Imagine being Cokanasiga’s father, Ilaitia, who served almost 14 years in the British army, including two tours of Iraq and one in Afghanistan, only to be denied re-entry to the UK after being told he no longer had a legal right to remain. Now imagine being his mother Kitty, in tears on the phone to her stranded husband as she fought to overcome a cancerous brain tumour. Or Big Joe himself, representing a country which suddenly decided to turn its back on his family and other servicemen in similar positions.

ARTICLE CONTINUES...

Really good read. I mean what a bastard of a situation, but he seems to have a great attitude. Would absolutely love for him to hit his stride for England again.

From an English rugby perspective, it's great that his dad's situation is sorted, but it is appalling that our government and "hostile environment" is continuing to deny other in similar situations. I suspect even a Daily Mail reader would consider Commonwealth veterans of the British Army as being "acceptable immigrants."

He's looked promising of late for Bath - hopefully he'll gather momentum towards the end of the season and get his chance to go to Australia.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

I suspect even a Daily Mail reader would consider Commonwealth veterans of the British Army as being "acceptable immigrants."

I thought that too - and I'm pretty sure they were supportive of Lumley and the Gurkhas.
On the other hand, in their coverage of the same interview, its kinda thrown away at the end.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby ... njury.html

His family were enduring their own struggles as his father, Ilaitia — a British Army veteran who served in Iraq and Afghanistan — was unable to return to the UK for more than a year due to a visa issue.

Joe added his voice to a Royal British Legion campaign to remove extortionate fees being applied to ex-soldiers and their families from the Commonwealth who wished to settle in this country. There has been partial progress.

'It got resolved, eventually, and he's been back in the UK for a while now,' said Cokanasiga. 'It took a while and I kept pushing for other soldiers and their families to get back too.

'They finally said soldiers don't have to pay for a visa, but what we're trying to push is that's not good enough — it has to include the families too. It's slowly changing. I didn't realise what a big issue it was until the British Legion contacted me and said, 'There are a lot of families going through the same thing'. That pushed me to raise awareness of it.'

Now, maybe I'm being unfair, but sod it, it's the Daily Mail, I don't feel any particular need to be particularly fair towards them.

[Mellsblue]

Again, there is a politics board.

[Puja]

Again, there is a politics board.

Good point; apologies

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

Reposting from SMB mainly to annoy Puja.



Most don’t seem likely although Dingwall might be having second/third/fourth/fifth thoughts about his allegiance. A canny defender and dare I say it a more rounded player than Conrad O’Harris.

I don’t even know who Shaun Stevenson is.

To make it at least a bit relevant to this thread - does Arundell actually look a proper fullback beyond being rapid? I’ve only seen highlights. I’m suddenly remembering how much May used to play 15 (and 13) for Glos which seems very strange now.

Is Chapman viewed as a real prospect?

[Scrumhead]

Scotland are an embarrassment.

[Puja]

Reposting from SMB mainly to annoy Puja.



Most don’t seem likely although Dingwall might be having second/third/fourth/fifth thoughts about his allegiance. A canny defender and dare I say it a more rounded player than Conrad O’Harris.

I don’t even know who Shaun Stevenson is.

To make it at least a bit relevant to this thread - does Arundell actually look a proper fullback beyond being rapid? I’ve only seen highlights. I’m suddenly remembering how much May used to play 15 (and 13) for Glos which seems very strange now.

Is Chapman viewed as a real prospect?

Would that be Rory Hutchinson the 5-times capped Scotland international? I think you've already got him!

Chapman's certainly better than Ben White - I think he'd be an asset. I'd be upset about losing him, Smith, and Dingwall - not necessarily because I think they'll play for England, but in a dog-in-the-manger sense.

Arundell you can get your filthy Scots paws off. Having watched him for England U20s, he does look like a genuine full-back - picked some nice lines from the back and was solid under the high ball. Still a bit to learn, obviously, but he looks more like a 15 than a wing.

Puja

[SDHoneymonster]

Three year stand-down period is a game-changer in regards to Scotland trying to cap anyone with Scottish qualification IMO, which both Cotter and Townsend have been big on to try and guard against injury crises in their small player pool (Ben White is a very good example of what I insist has been selection policy but is likely just a figment of my paranoid imagination - if there's one position Scotland never seem to struggle to produce talent it's at 9 and within the 6N squad they also had Ben Vellacott, a player who arguably fits their gameplan better, played for them at age group level and has shown his commitment to Scottish rugby by moving up to Edinburgh, yet the player they chose to cap first is the one who came through the England age groups and who still plays in England). Given the age profile of a lot of those mentioned they'd have nothing to lose by going on a tour and even taking a cap, only to then turn around and say they're standing down. That said, that is also literally just a tweet from a podcast listing some Scottish-qualified players, one of whom already has multiple caps, so I'm probably giving way too much thought to what is literally a wishlist rather than actual reporting.

[Scrumhead]

It may be a wish list but it reveals the desperate mentality of the Scots.

[SDHoneymonster]

It may be a wish list but it reveals the desperate mentality of the Scots.

Don't think it reveals a lot except that the tweeter knows the names of some Scottish-qualified players tbf. Scotland are touring Argentina this summer and after a disappointing 6N I can't see them naming a weakened squad - they need to recapture some of the momentum they had after beating England at the start of February.

[Mikey Brown]

Jesus. Relax. As SDH says Scotland are often in a state with some positions we’d be really scraping the barrel after a couple of injuries. This is just what professionalism has done.

Do you think England are above it? Do you think it is some inherent quality within English people that means there’s a bigger/better player pool? Or a ton of EQP players of Fijian, Kiwi (etc) heritage now coming through that don’t qualify as poaches?

I am aware that I posted that to wind people and am now telling you not to be so wound up, but there we go.

I completely disagree SDH on what Scotland’s approach to the summer tour should be (though I do think this tweet was somewhat tongue in cheek) but that’s really straying quite far off topic.

[Puja]

Three year stand-down period is a game-changer in regards to Scotland trying to cap anyone with Scottish qualification IMO, which both Cotter and Townsend have been big on to try and guard against injury crises in their small player pool (Ben White is a very good example of what I insist has been selection policy but is likely just a figment of my paranoid imagination - if there's one position Scotland never seem to struggle to produce talent it's at 9 and within the 6N squad they also had Ben Vellacott, a player who arguably fits their gameplan better and has shown his commitment to Scottish rugby by moving up to Edinburgh, yet the player they chose to cap first is the one who came through the England age groups and who still plays in England). Given the age profile of a lot of those mentioned they'd have nothing to lose by going on a tour and even taking a cap, only to then turn around and say they're standing down. That said, that is also literally just a tweet from a podcast listing some Scottish-qualified players, one of whom already has multiple caps, so I'm probably giving way too much thought to what is literally a wishlist rather than actual reporting.

Three years is a fairly big chunk of a professional player's career though. Plus, as you note, Scotland's player pool is limited, so any player who is good enough that England would be interested in them is unlikely to go completely ignored by Scotland for more than 3 years at a time, so it would have to be a conscious decision to turn down Scotland and give up three years of their international career for the nebulous possibility of an England cap and if they felt that strongly about playing for England, why would they take the Scotland cap in the first place?

Puja

[FKAS]

I'd be surprised if Fin Smith and Arundell jumped at an early cap. Their agents will be no doubt pointing out the EQ regulations coming into the Prem and that taking a Scotland cap this summer will mean a reduced market value for the next three years minimum. They are two players that could have most the league waving significant cheques at them it they look like fulfilling their potential over the next couple of years and are still EQ.

Chapman will join a list of scrum halfs. Dingwall could well get a cap for Scotland as I don't think it's likely he's going to become an England regular but Scotland might like the idea of pairing him with club teammate Hutchinson.

[Scrumhead]

I think Dingwall is underrated. He’s maybe not as exciting as other options, but in a similar way, no-one was too bothered about losing Chris Harris and he then made it on to a Lions tour. I think Dingwall has the potential to be better than Harris.

I might be wrong, but he seems determined to make it with England. I’m basing that upon the fact that Scotland must be courting him (let’s face it, they’re all over anyone with even a tenuous connection* like a tramp on chips) but he hasn’t appeared in any of their camps. my assumption is that England are showing enough interest to stop him from switching allegiance.

*I know Dingwall’s connection is not at all tenuous

[Mikey Brown]

I’m just a bit baffled by your preoccupation with Scotland looking for poaches, I’m clearly being a bit defensive, but you’re aware absolutely everyone is doing this?

Again I don’t think there’s any particularly serious feeling from anyone that guys like Arundell are likely to jump ship. Certainly not at this stage of their careers.

[Banquo]

I think Dingwall is underrated. He’s maybe not as exciting as other options, but in a similar way, no-one was too bothered about losing Chris Harris and he then made it on to a Lions tour. I think Dingwall has the potential to be better than Harris.

I might be wrong, but he seems determined to make it with England. I’m basing that upon the fact that Scotland must be courting him (let’s face it, they’re all over anyone with even a tenuous connection* like a tramp on chips) but he hasn’t appeared in any of their camps. my assumption is that England are showing enough interest to stop him from switching allegiance.

*I know Dingwall’s connection is not at all tenuous

Not sure underrated is the right word- Saints rate him very highly, he's been in some England squads, and would have made the team v the baa-baas but for it being cancelled. Eddie speaks to him regularly- as does Townsend! He does feel loyalty to the English system- and his mum is English- so would prefer to play for England; his dad is proud either way . This is the first season he's been able to put a big run of games together- injury and rotation- and he's looking very comfortable either side of the ball; although he is nothing like Conrad Smith physically- nor prob will be quite as good-, he does those bits and pieces well like Smith did...and enables other to play well.

[Scrumhead]

I’m just a bit baffled by your preoccupation with Scotland looking for poaches, I’m clearly being a bit defensive, but you’re aware absolutely everyone is doing this?

Again I don’t think there’s any particularly serious feeling from anyone that guys like Arundell are likely to jump ship. Certainly not at this stage of their careers.

Scotland just seem to be particularly desperate. I found this article interesting, but concerning: https://www.americasrugbynews.com/2022/ ... x-nations/

Scotland seem like they’d prefer to push the strategy of hoovering up anyone who is qualified as opposed to producing their own. I don’t like that, particularly when it appears that they’re coercing players in to making huge decisions at such a young age. Arundell looks like a massive talent, but he shouldn’t be in consideration for international caps for anyone yet. Scotland sniffing around him to capture him early is the sort of behaviour I object to.

[Scrumhead]

I think Dingwall is underrated. He’s maybe not as exciting as other options, but in a similar way, no-one was too bothered about losing Chris Harris and he then made it on to a Lions tour. I think Dingwall has the potential to be better than Harris.

I might be wrong, but he seems determined to make it with England. I’m basing that upon the fact that Scotland must be courting him (let’s face it, they’re all over anyone with even a tenuous connection* like a tramp on chips) but he hasn’t appeared in any of their camps. my assumption is that England are showing enough interest to stop him from switching allegiance.

*I know Dingwall’s connection is not at all tenuous

Not sure underrated is the right word- Saints rate him very highly, he's been in some England squads, and would have made the team v the baa-baas but for it being cancelled. Eddie speaks to him regularly- as does Townsend! He does feel loyalty to the English system- and his mum is English- so would prefer to play for England; his dad is proud either way . This is the first season he's been able to put a big run of games together- injury and rotation- and he's looking very comfortable either side of the ball; although he is nothing like Conrad Smith physically- nor prob will be quite as good-, he does those bits and pieces well like Smith did...and enables other to play well.

I agree with your description. I’d say he’s generally underrated across rugby forums though. If he’s included in the wider England mix, the sentiment seems to be pretty meh.

[Banquo]

I think Dingwall is underrated. He’s maybe not as exciting as other options, but in a similar way, no-one was too bothered about losing Chris Harris and he then made it on to a Lions tour. I think Dingwall has the potential to be better than Harris.

I might be wrong, but he seems determined to make it with England. I’m basing that upon the fact that Scotland must be courting him (let’s face it, they’re all over anyone with even a tenuous connection* like a tramp on chips) but he hasn’t appeared in any of their camps. my assumption is that England are showing enough interest to stop him from switching allegiance.

*I know Dingwall’s connection is not at all tenuous

Not sure underrated is the right word- Saints rate him very highly, he's been in some England squads, and would have made the team v the baa-baas but for it being cancelled. Eddie speaks to him regularly- as does Townsend! He does feel loyalty to the English system- and his mum is English- so would prefer to play for England; his dad is proud either way . This is the first season he's been able to put a big run of games together- injury and rotation- and he's looking very comfortable either side of the ball; although he is nothing like Conrad Smith physically- nor prob will be quite as good-, he does those bits and pieces well like Smith did...and enables other to play well.

I agree with your description. I’d say he’s generally underrated across rugby forums though. If he’s included in the wider England mix, the sentiment seems to be pretty meh.

ah ok, underrated by people who don't really matter to his career TBH I don't do other fora, so fair dinkum.