RugbyRebels

I really hope that Curry is genuinely fully fit. Rushing him back and breaking him again would be criminal.

So the team isn’t out but apparently we know we’ll be subbing Smith on at 15 again. Good stuff.

Somehow putting a young, promising player out of position in a pre-planned substitution actually seems like one of the more exciting things about this game.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 8:05 am So the team isn’t out but apparently we know we’ll be subbing Smith on at 15 again. Good stuff.

Somehow putting a young, promising player out of position in a pre-planned substitution actually seems like one of the more exciting things about this game.

It doesn’t scream desperation in any way. Not in the slightest. IBWT…

I blame Which Tyler? Seems a bit mean.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 8:24 am

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 8:05 am So the team isn’t out but apparently we know we’ll be subbing Smith on at 15 again. Good stuff.

Somehow putting a young, promising player out of position in a pre-planned substitution actually seems like one of the more exciting things about this game.

It doesn’t scream desperation in any way. Not in the slightest. IBWT…

It smacks of Farrell to 12, Ford at 10. Just pick your best 10. If it's Smith (and it probably is) start him at FH. I think the 9/10 combination that Argentina would want least is Mitchell/Smith.

As for the 15 shirt, why Malins was not tried in it, I don't understand.

Malins is becoming the Farrell of the wings for me, I can't understand how he keeps getting picked, but there he is, week in week out. At least he's scored a few tries, I suppose.

Nah it's all about fluid, adaptable rugby. Sure Malins can play 15, but we don't want to show our hand too early.

Make sure no combo is playing together more than a few minutes at a time. 55 minutes - Bam! Smith to 10 and Farrell to 12. 60 minutes - Bam! Smith to 15, Steward to 12, Farrell back to 10. 65 minutes - Bam! Malins to flyhalf, Farrell back to 12, Steward to the wing, Smith subbed off for not taking control of the game. Keep everyone on their toes. Drive the standards.

Danno wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 9:09 am Malins is becoming the Farrell of the wings for me, I can't understand how he keeps getting picked, but there he is, week in week out. At least he's scored a few tries, I suppose.

I'm not a fan but the logic of picking him game after game on the wing when his preferred position is FB makes little sense. Why not give him a game at FB and dump/retain/hold in reserve? To turn to Smith without trying Malins first just seems like panic, especially as Malins was a FH originally anyway.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 9:24 am

Danno wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 9:09 am Malins is becoming the Farrell of the wings for me, I can't understand how he keeps getting picked, but there he is, week in week out. At least he's scored a few tries, I suppose.

I'm not a fan but the logic of picking him game after game on the wing when his preferred position is FB makes little sense. Why not give him a game at FB and dump/retain/hold in reserve? To turn to Smith without trying Malins first just seems like panic, especially as Malins was a FH originally anyway.

You would really be comfortable with Malins covering fly-half for England if Ford went down injured in the first minute?!

Also, I don't get the "Malins is not a wing" argument. That's where he's played the majority of his professional appearances, as Saracens have rarely played him anywhere but there. Say he's not your type of wing or that he's not good enough, sure. Saying he's completely out of position seems wild.

Puja

Deckchairs, Titanic, Orcas attacking, something something. ICEBERG

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 8:05 am So the team isn’t out but apparently we know we’ll be subbing Smith on at 15 again. Good stuff.

Somehow putting a young, promising player out of position in a pre-planned substitution actually seems like one of the more exciting things about this game.

Probably been his best displays in an England shirt since the game Vs South Africa which was his only other decent performance.

It is hard to tell whether it's a bad team dragging him down or whether Smith's inability to change his game from what he does at club level is causing problems. He does like to run ball in hand but is often then tackled and without another playmaker for one (or more likely two) phases the attack falls down and tends to lose momentum. Unless we have another playmaker in the backline but Smith doesn't combine well with Farrell and whilst Ford and Smith work well playing off each other crowbarring them into the same backline is difficult. Now Malins as a floating playmaker could work but he's looked well out of his depth on the wing and it doesn't appear Eddie or Borthwick trust him at 15.

Danno wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 9:09 am Malins is becoming the Farrell of the wings for me, I can't understand how he keeps getting picked, but there he is, week in week out. At least he's scored a few tries, I suppose.

He's actually only scored 2 tries (which is piss poor for someone with over 20 caps now) and they both came in the 6N match against Scotland.

rjjb wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:06 am

Danno wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 9:09 am Malins is becoming the Farrell of the wings for me, I can't understand how he keeps getting picked, but there he is, week in week out. At least he's scored a few tries, I suppose.

He's actually only scored 2 tries (which is piss poor for someone with over 20 caps now) and they both came in the 6N match against Scotland.

2 tries in 20 games may be p*ss-poor perhaps - in any team other than us.

For an England back (outside OF, before anyone else mentions it) it's quite an achievement.

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 9:28 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 9:24 am

Danno wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 9:09 am Malins is becoming the Farrell of the wings for me, I can't understand how he keeps getting picked, but there he is, week in week out. At least he's scored a few tries, I suppose.

I'm not a fan but the logic of picking him game after game on the wing when his preferred position is FB makes little sense. Why not give him a game at FB and dump/retain/hold in reserve? To turn to Smith without trying Malins first just seems like panic, especially as Malins was a FH originally anyway.

You would really be comfortable with Malins covering fly-half for England if Ford went down injured in the first minute?!

Also, I don't get the "Malins is not a wing" argument. That's where he's played the majority of his professional appearances, as Saracens have rarely played him anywhere but there. Say he's not your type of wing or that he's not good enough, sure. Saying he's completely out of position seems wild.

Puja

Sorry, you've lost me. Why would Malins end up at FH if we had started him at FB? If both Ford and Smith (at 10/22 or 22/10) were injured, do you mean?

Just to be clear, I would not have Malins in the 33. What I don't get is never trying him at FB but keeping him in the squad - presumably, just as a winger. He's not a good enough winger ahead of others. However, with his FH origin, and his preference for FB, I could see sense in trying him as back-up to Steward (who has looked shaky in the warm-ups).

Thinking further about Smith at FB, there is one argument in its favour. Having him come on there as the second playmaker at least reduces the chances of seeing Farrell at 12.

Having said that, might this coaching crew be angling towards having all three FHs on the pitch together at some point? Start with Farrell at 10 and Smith at 15, then bring on Ford at FH with Farrell moving to IC. Just ugh!

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 10:39 am

Puja wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 9:28 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 9:24 am

I'm not a fan but the logic of picking him game after game on the wing when his preferred position is FB makes little sense. Why not give him a game at FB and dump/retain/hold in reserve? To turn to Smith without trying Malins first just seems like panic, especially as Malins was a FH originally anyway.

You would really be comfortable with Malins covering fly-half for England if Ford went down injured in the first minute?!

Also, I don't get the "Malins is not a wing" argument. That's where he's played the majority of his professional appearances, as Saracens have rarely played him anywhere but there. Say he's not your type of wing or that he's not good enough, sure. Saying he's completely out of position seems wild.

Puja

Sorry, you've lost me. Why would Malins end up at FH if we had started him at FB? If both Ford and Smith (at 10/22 or 22/10) were injured, do you mean?

Well, the point of having Smith play 15 is so that we can have him on the pitch as a sub without having to take off Ford and disarrange the incredible cohesion of our backline by changing the 10. I thought you were suggesting a direct swap of Malins for Smith in the XXIII - that they would've been better putting Malins at 15 and, since he was a FH originally, he could then be the 10 cover. Obviously a crossed wire.

Puja

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 11:27 am Thinking further about Smith at FB, there is one argument in its favour. Having him come on there as the second playmaker at least reduces the chances of seeing Farrell at 12.

Having said that, might this coaching crew be angling towards having all three FHs on the pitch together at some point? Start with Farrell at 10 and Smith at 15, then bring on Ford at FH with Farrell moving to IC. Just ugh!

Pace to burn. Scary stuff.

Good article by Flatman
https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/david-fl ... boys-play/

David Flatman: 'Give the laptops a rest and let the boys play.'

It was the season after I’d stopped playing that I first sat back – in my new ergonomic chair – and zoomed out a little as I observed Bath, my now-former team, and how they were playing.
...
England do not have enough players who clearly suit this plan, and therefore are currently nowhere near maximising their playing potential.
...
Imagine Jason Robinson being told not to run the ball back from his own half, especially not if it was raining.

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:18 am Good article by Flatman
https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/david-fl ... boys-play/

David Flatman: 'Give the laptops a rest and let the boys play.'

It was the season after I’d stopped playing that I first sat back – in my new ergonomic chair – and zoomed out a little as I observed Bath, my now-former team, and how they were playing.
...
England do not have enough players who clearly suit this plan, and therefore are currently nowhere near maximising their playing potential.
...
Imagine Jason Robinson being told not to run the ball back from his own half, especially not if it was raining.

"The issue is that, while England have some truly exceptional players, this plan doesn’t necessarily suit them. Who cares what English rugby should look like? Who cares that England are supposed to have a huge, dominant forward pack? They currently don’t have one, so why try to play as if they do?"

Flatman is the best pundit.

Puja

Yep. Good stuff.

To quote Banquo "I agree but also I said all that stuff first and it's correct and that's why I'm a genius".

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:34 am Yep. Good stuff.

To quote Banquo "I agree but also I said all that stuff first and it's correct and that's why I'm a genius".

Suggest we just swerve each other, in fact you suggested it a while ago and I should have listened.

Ah I didn’t mean that to come across as a serious dig. My bad.

I was really just projecting my own feeling of I said that on here the other day but didn’t get paid for it.

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:29 am

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:18 am Good article by Flatman
https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/david-fl ... boys-play/

David Flatman: 'Give the laptops a rest and let the boys play.'

It was the season after I’d stopped playing that I first sat back – in my new ergonomic chair – and zoomed out a little as I observed Bath, my now-former team, and how they were playing.
...
England do not have enough players who clearly suit this plan, and therefore are currently nowhere near maximising their playing potential.
...
Imagine Jason Robinson being told not to run the ball back from his own half, especially not if it was raining.

"The issue is that, while England have some truly exceptional players, this plan doesn’t necessarily suit them. Who cares what English rugby should look like? Who cares that England are supposed to have a huge, dominant forward pack? They currently don’t have one, so why try to play as if they do?"

Flatman is the best pundit.

Puja

I'd guess that the players would rather go out of the RWC having given it a real go with some decent all-round rugby than depart with a whimper playing 'kick and hope'. If they have a good 20 minute session against a decent opposition like Argentina, who knows what it could do to their confidence? Add on a few incentives e.g. Ford and Earl playing to keep their shirts, and there might just be something to build on.

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:29 am
Flatman is the best pundit.

Puja

Absolutely.

p/d wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 11:25 am

Puja wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 10:29 am
Flatman is the best pundit.

Puja

Absolutely.

And funniest.